[QUOTE='Deicide[RS];48194397']I think higher tier guns should be rare and not craftable and same goes with 9mm/556mm ammo. You'd get ammo from airdrops, crates and barrels in low quantities and you'd have to save them for a special occasion and use them sparingly. The same would go with guns, they would be so rare that getting your hands on one would be an event and keeping them would become an adventure. Make them unrepairable as well so that when it's done, it's done.
Both of this would contribute to make lower tier weapons much more used and important.. and when you'd hear a gun, you'd try all that's in your power to try and get it.[/QUOTE]
all this would create is a imbalance in the system imo.
[QUOTE=Catgut;48194667]all this would create is a imbalance in the system imo.[/QUOTE]
I'm talking from experience, there was a server I played on that did it like that back in Legacy and it was working really well. It took forever to get enough 556 ammo to feel brave enough to get out with it. The only time you'd bring the big guns was to protect your base or go raiding in a group.
On that particular server 9mm ammo was craftable so you could use the p250 and mp5 but the m4 was a rarer occurrence..
[QUOTE=General J;48192123]An AK is honestly pretty expensive at 500 frags.[/QUOTE]
Though AK is really good and in most cases will pay off the cost and then some.
[QUOTE='Deicide[RS];48194397']I think higher tier guns should be rare and not craftable and same goes with 9mm/556mm ammo. You'd get ammo from airdrops, crates and barrels in low quantities and you'd have to save them for a special occasion and use them sparingly. The same would go with guns, they would be so rare that getting your hands on one would be an event and keeping them would become an adventure. Make them unrepairable as well so that when it's done, it's done.
Both of this would contribute to make lower tier weapons much more used and important.. and when you'd hear a gun, you'd try all that's in your power to try and get it.[/QUOTE]
Exactly!
Naked killings will be greatly decreased. Your not going to want to shoot a naked and waste ammo for no reason.
Guns and ammo will be valuable. Maybe ammo would become more of a commodity/currency.
[QUOTE=Lord_Met;48177547]I and all my friends, have only purchased this game for raiding, with out the explosives there would be no point for us to play.[/QUOTE]
Of course you did. And you probably play on modded servers as well.
You and a lot of people play it for one purpose, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying that if it had a higher challenge in acquiring ingredients or resources, it would be more survival and less douche.
I hope ammo scarcity becomes a thing in Rust. Bluffing with an empty gun is the best.
[QUOTE=Catgut;48168610]frankly this could be solved with a previous post by gary. saying that bps might become steam id bound. then no one will be at a disadvantage when moving server to server. yes you would have to get all the bps your first time through the game but after you had them you would never be at a disadvantage again.[/QUOTE]
Won't work If server admins are hanging out free bp and items.
[QUOTE=ibanez87;48198166]Won't work If server admins are hanging out free bp and items.[/QUOTE]
If such a system was implemented, it would not apply to servers that can do this. It would be more akin to tf2 where you host a server but item drops are controlled by master server.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;48198697]If such a system was implemented, it would not apply to servers that can do this. It would be more akin to tf2 where you host a server but item drops are controlled by master server.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps servers will be classified as modded servers if they don't conform to certain rules for vanilla servers.
But honestly, If a server is dedicated to providing a regular, vanilla experience, then I don't think admins would go against that rule.
Its gonna get tough soon trust me :D
[QUOTE=jumonjii;48198097]Of course you did. And you probably play on modded servers as well.
You and a lot of people play it for one purpose, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying that if it had a higher challenge in acquiring ingredients or resources, it would be more survival and less douche.[/QUOTE]
I actually play on the Rustafied servers, the only official server with admin. Modded is to easy(granted there are great mods, just i have hard time trusting admin on those servers... on top of kits and crazy loot tables and the like) There is no anxiety if the gear i have is to easy to replace, and there is no point to raiding if my raid doesn't cripple the raided.
As it is now i spend wayy to much grinding to get enough c4 and rockets for fun.. i also rarely raid established bases while they are offline(once again it is for the anxiety and challenge of raiding someone... taking their stuff so i can build bigger/better.) The established bases that i do raid afk are the ones that the owners have previously despawned loot when we got to their last room. Or if they built their base over night and it is too close to my place for comfort, then it gets raided asap regardless if the home owner is online or not.
[QUOTE=Catgut;48192918]frankly the resource cost for a ak is very easy to get. i can personally push a couple of thousand every hour or so.
of course that is with out the interference of players.[/QUOTE]
you cant even farm enough resources in an hour for 1000 ak's if you had an infinite node in front of you
Its funny that AK's cost more than an armored wall when you factor in wood. but as soon as you start talking about the cost of building in armored tier everyone whines about how its too hard/time consuming
Yes, guns should only be appearing near the end of a map cycle imo, too much hostility in the game at the moment...
[QUOTE=marts30;48234147]Yes, guns should only be appearing near the end of a map cycle imo, too much hostility in the game at the moment...[/QUOTE]
Hostility is inevitable, even without firearms. Most newmen will want to beat the shit out of someone with their beloved rock.
[QUOTE=RaaR;48231446]you cant even farm enough resources in an hour for 1000 ak's if you had an infinite node in front of you
Its funny that AK's cost more than an armored wall when you factor in wood. but as soon as you start talking about the cost of building in armored tier everyone whines about how its too hard/time consuming[/QUOTE]
i meant metal frags and wood.
[QUOTE=jbob21;48168350]It's way too easy to find guns and mass produce them. Guns are not a valuable commodity, something to treasure.[/QUOTE]
Another approach could be limiting the [I]bullets[/I].
[b]Salvaged Bullets.[/b] Built from [b]spent casing[/b], metal frags and gunpowder. Bullets leave behind casings in inventory when shot (just assume bullet recovery since tracking each shell would get silly). Could also recover spent casings at the same time as salvaging [URL="http://imgur.com/rs5daTL"]scrap metal[/URL]. Only basic (not HV etc) rounds, and they'd have less damage and speed.
Then the current bullets would only come from drops, so they'd be precious commodities.
Overall, drawing a gun could get you killed for the chance to recover precious rounds. While people would still have guns, they might not want to risk the ammo taking them outside and would not waste ammo for minimal gain.
[QUOTE=jbob21;48168350]The only time they are is when you don't have a gun BP.[/QUOTE]
Tier progression should be centered on core resources rather than increasingly expensive items that use the same stuff you had when you first built a shack-home.
Stone, wood, and bone come first.
Then the clay furnaces produce primitive metals.
Then the iron-age metal tools let us salvage [URL="http://imgur.com/a/BYUMl"]scrap metal[/URL] from barrels, signs, cars, etc to make salvage gear and the current Rusty guns.
All the previous materials then go into putting together a forge (tier 2 furnace?) that produces refined metal like steel and machinery to produce electricity.
The progression stops being about RNG-dependent "unlocks" and instead centers on means of production and maintaining increasingly expensive lifestyles. Higher tier materials require greater risk to harvest and burn through more expensive tools, so higher tier guns and ammo stay expensive. (frank_walls [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1454530"]posted[/URL] a damned fine "crafting concept" graphic that has just about everything we've been talking about.)
[QUOTE=punchfodder;48238603]Another approach could be limiting the [I]bullets[/I].
[b]Salvaged Bullets.[/b] Built from [b]spent casing[/b], metal frags and gunpowder. Bullets leave behind casings in inventory when shot (just assume bullet recovery since tracking each shell would get silly). Could also recover spent casings at the same time as salvaging [URL="http://imgur.com/rs5daTL"]scrap metal[/URL]. Only basic (not HV etc) rounds, and they'd have less damage and speed.
Then the current bullets would only come from drops, so they'd be precious commodities.
Overall, drawing a gun could get you killed for the chance to recover precious rounds. While people would still have guns, they might not want to risk the ammo taking them outside and would not waste ammo for minimal gain.
Tier progression should be centered on core resources rather than increasingly expensive items that use the same stuff you had when you first built a shack-home.
Stone, wood, and bone come first.
Then the clay furnaces produce primitive metals.
Then the iron-age metal tools let us salvage [URL="http://imgur.com/a/BYUMl"]scrap metal[/URL] from barrels, signs, cars, etc to make salvage gear and the current Rusty guns.
All the previous materials then go into putting together a forge (tier 2 furnace?) that produces refined metal like steel and machinery to produce electricity.
The progression stops being about RNG-dependent "unlocks" and instead centers on means of production and maintaining increasingly expensive lifestyles. Higher tier materials require greater risk to harvest and burn through more expensive tools, so higher tier guns and ammo stay expensive. (frank_walls [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1454530"]posted[/URL] a damned fine "crafting concept" graphic that has just about everything we've been talking about.)[/QUOTE]
Haha, I remember that graphic from awhile ago. Thanks for bringing it back to my attention.
The solution in my opinion is a better and more diverse gun progression system.
In Legacy: pickaxe/bow -> handcannon/pipe shotgun -> p250/shotgun -> m4/bolt action
Very simple progression, not a lot of weapons but it worked because there was a weapon for every kind of player and to get to the next "tier" took a similar amount of effort/time in each step.
They seem to be adding weapons to help with this so I'm not too concerned.
There is an easy way to let everyone enjoy. BP phases or eras.
Guns shouldn't be on for the first 2 or 3 days of a wipe. For the first days you can only use your bows, crossbows and machetes to rip other players.
Even better if everything comes available slowly. So at some point thompson will be the best weapon available, and a real expert will master every weapon on the game.
More fun if for the very first hours of a wipe there is not even a stone hatchet. Harvesting stone would then be terrible, and everyone would start with a wooden house, with locks since code locks are not available either.
Also nodes shouldn't give you metal ore nor sulfur at first, those were taken as garbage on first human eras, so you can't harvest them untill they become useful for something.
Guns are only easy to get in groups. As a solo player it can take days to find even a pistol blueprint.
Yet it seems that every player I come across has an AK and seemingly unlimited bullets.
I can't remember the last time I even touched an AK as a solo player. Maybe I just suck, but I just can't do it.
The one downside to this game for me is lots of grinding even on highly modded servers, and make you have to grind even more will just make the game plain boring because you will hardly even have any action. you will be locked up in you little shack or spending hours hacking at ore nodes.
[QUOTE=FluffyDog;48262270]There is an easy way to let everyone enjoy. BP phases or eras.
Guns shouldn't be on for the first 2 or 3 days of a wipe. For the first days you can only use your bows, crossbows and machetes to rip other players.
Even better if everything comes available slowly. So at some point thompson will be the best weapon available, and a real expert will master every weapon on the game.
More fun if for the very first hours of a wipe there is not even a stone hatchet. Harvesting stone would then be terrible, and everyone would start with a wooden house, with locks since code locks are not available either.
Also nodes shouldn't give you metal ore nor sulfur at first, those were taken as garbage on first human eras, so you can't harvest them untill they become useful for something.[/QUOTE]
No, just no.
people chasing you down with spears/bows is more frequent and annoying then guns the first day. I hardly run into anyone shooting with an AK the first day.
And if you cant get a mini house set-up with furnaces cranking out a gun in 2-3 hours then I got some bad news for you.
And if you dont have a gun BP, hey guess what? neither did that guy that is shooting you at some point. So why should you get a free pass because you didn't want to grind out BP's. Go dump sleeping bags at every rad town and grind for 2-3 days.
Maybe this will make guns harder to get.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/G5qK4hK.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Malexion;48272083]Maybe this will make guns harder to get.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/G5qK4hK.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Refined metal.
My understanding... metal ore + furnace = metal frags. Metal frags + furnace = refined metal.
Maybe there will be another step.
[QUOTE=jumonjii;48272243]Refined metal.
My understanding... metal ore + furnace = metal frags. Metal frags + furnace = refined metal.
Maybe there will be another step.[/QUOTE]
You can only get high quality ore from Quarries and this will require Quarries along with T2 furnaces to make higher quality metal for guns.
Source for Higher Quality Metal is here: [URL="https://twitter.com/RustUpdates/status/624049357202038784"]https://twitter.com/RustUpdates/status/624049357202038784[/URL]
From reading the updates, it sounds like this is a big update.
[QUOTE=jumonjii;48272553]From reading the updates, it sounds like this is a big update.[/QUOTE]
They are basically dumping materials and unused models from the last 5 or so devblogs into this, so pretty much.
It's basically going to change nearly everything about how the game is played, once Metabolism, Vehicles and Farming/Husbandry are in will radically alter this game, but those will be in 3 separate big updates of their own most likely.
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