easyanticheat [serious?] - Rust

This curtain about how you "care" so much about the law is simply Bullshit. I know bullshit when I see it. Go away [QUOTE=DUA;44028752]My apologies if me quoting current law and quite clearly illustrating how it applies to EAC is too hard for you to understand, and my apologies if you cannot understand the post where I said "I appreciate the fact you guys want to defend Gary and the game, please do not mistake my post for an attack as it isn't. I love Rust and what Garry and Facepunch are doing and I want to support them, however I am curious as to how they will deal with our Spyware Bill if they choose to enforce EAC on Australian customers." It's quite surprising how hostile this forum is and how many close minded people automatically label anyone who dares challenge anything as a "cheater". Bit of a shame. [editline]24th February 2014[/editline] Thank you for another well thought out and constructful post, your contribution is valued and appreciated :)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DUA;44028752]I am curious as to how they will deal with our Spyware Bill if they choose to enforce EAC on Australian customers.[/QUOTE] I'm imagining a dialog will pop up with some stuff that resembles an EULA with an agree/disagree set of options or checkboxes. With agree leading to an installation and disagree backing out to the Steam client. Sounds simple to me. I'm assuming some modern games work in Australia, so it won't be setting any amazing precedent.

[QUOTE=DUA;44028621]That's good information to know, however can you prove EAC is being used on Australian servers? Also just because it's being used doesn't automatically mean it doesn't violate the Spyware Bill; if no one has challenged it then I doubt the Government would even be aware of it. I doubt the Government would spend their time actively researching anti-cheat programs to make sure they don't violate the bill :P[/QUOTE] Yes Leetway provides 128 Tick servers in Australia which they get from Streamline Servers and without the Leetway client, which includes EAC, you cant play a Leetway match therefor it is used in Australia. Then challenge it and see what comes around if its such a big issue for you. Although I am almost certain nothing will come from it as companies are very cautious in regards to various of these laws and always secure themselves.

[QUOTE=Detsur;44028780]This curtain about how you "care" so much about the law is simply Bullshit. I know bullshit when I see it. Go away[/QUOTE] Sorry where did I say I care? I said I was curious, sorry if me questioning things and having a different opinion to you upsets you. As for bullshit, I've seen nothing but that since I posted. I have researched the subject, found applicable law, provided quotes, directly related them to EAC and proven how EAC violates the law, and asked how Gary plans to deal with it. The most anyone else has done here is throw insults, call me a cheater and make baseless accusations. It's ok though I'll happily leave you children in peace, I will pursue this in a more direct matter and you can go back to insulting anyone who doesn't share your view point. Have fun posting more insults that I'll never read and thinking your tough :)

We had cheaters on within minutes of this update. Hopefully they are testing it for any issues, and then people are going to be retroactively banned. If that's not the case, they missed a good chance to catch a ton of people, our server was FILLED with cheats this weekend. If the team ever needs to see cheats in rampant action outside of official servers, come to any high pop 150+ server.

[QUOTE=Pop.ch;44028827]Yes Leetway provides 128 Tick servers in Australia which they get from Streamline Servers and without the Leetway client, which includes EAC, you cant play a Leetway match therefor it is used in Australia. Then challenge it and see what comes around if its such a big issue for you. Although I am almost certain nothing will come from it as companies are very cautious in regards to various of these laws and always secure themselves.[/QUOTE] This may sound corny but thank you for actually coming back with information and facts, after all the other amazing posts I've read so far I was doubting anyone would actually come back with anything constructive. I will definitely look into this further and see how they manage EAC here in Aus, I'm assuming they simply just disclose everything they collect (would make the most sense), but you never know :)

more bullshit

[QUOTE=tirpider;44028824]I'm imagining a dialog will pop up with some stuff that resembles an EULA with an agree/disagree set of options or checkboxes. With agree leading to an installation and disagree backing out to the Steam client. Sounds simple to me. I'm assuming some modern games work in Australia, so it won't be setting any amazing precedent.[/QUOTE] From what I've read about EAC it is extremely intrusive, more so than other anti-cheat programs, to the point it is actually considered spyware which is why I asked my original questions. Some form of EULA would work but it would still have to satisfy the requirements of the Bill (list everything it collects etc). I'd be interested to see if they would be willing to do or not. Edit: Ok I'm out, big thanks to Tripider and Pop.ch for decent replies. It's nice to know not everyone here are douches :)

All this shit reminds me of what Gabe said in the Reddit thread a couple of days ago. [QUOTE=Gaben]"social engineering might be a cheaper way to attack the system than continuing the code arms race"[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DUA;44028714]- SNIP - Simply answering "Yes" when it asks to install does not even come close to meeting those requirements. And Gary only said he will "post something up", which doesn't sound very comprehensive to me. - SNIP - why am I not allowed to question a program that has the very obvious potential to be in violation of our current laws? Why can I not come forward with a concern, backed up with facts and research, and ask questions? Also why would I trust lawyers whose sole purpose is to serve the interests of their client, who at this time wants to implement software that, as I said, has a very obvious potential to be in violation of our current laws.[/QUOTE] Why not wait till it's there instead of bitching back and forth? Seriously, garrys answer is enough >for now<. And the lawyers want to serve their client, yes, but from a legal PoV. So they telling "it's illegal, use it anyway" would be a reason to fire them, don't you think? All you're doing is wasting everyones time, including garrys and maybe (if he's relly paying attention to this) the ones of the lawyers. [QUOTE=DUA;44028834]proven how EAC violates the law[/QUOTE] No, you speculated. Go waste EACs time with this topic, go prove them that they are violating the law. Hell, why aren't you already sueing them?

[QUOTE=V10lator;44028966]All you're doing is wasting everyones time, including garrys and maybe (if he's relly paying attention to this)[/QUOTE] Take it from a programmer, I've seen Garry's code in GWEN, guy's a machine, and programming machines tend to focus on the code and little else, I've got the failed relationships to prove it! I'm surprised he even occasionally gets a tweet out. But no I doubt this vocal minority is occupying even a minute amount of his time. That's what J!NX is for!

[QUOTE=DUA;44028834]Sorry where did I say I care? I said I was curious, sorry if me questioning things and having a different opinion to you upsets you. As for bullshit, I've seen nothing but that since I posted. I have researched the subject, found applicable law, provided quotes, directly related them to EAC and proven how EAC violates the law, and asked how Gary plans to deal with it. The most anyone else has done here is throw insults, call me a cheater and make baseless accusations. It's ok though I'll happily leave you children in peace, I will pursue this in a more direct matter and you can go back to insulting anyone who doesn't share your view point. Have fun posting more insults that I'll never read and thinking your tough :)[/QUOTE] it's hard to not be cynical when, so comically and hilariously, there are people who make hacks that are bitching that they can't cheat any more it's like bitching you can't rob the bank because they'll arrest you, only on a far less massive scale also I'm tired

The guy is standing in a pile of Bullshit ten foot deep. Hackers and cheater think they are smarter then everyone. SO much so they will lie right to your face and think you dont notice. Then ramble on about how smart they are. Its called bullshit.

Just stop buying cheats. No law is going to stop EAC's implementation. There is more legal standing to sue the cheat providers than there is to stop EAC. Just stop cheating and your worries will go away. It's also rather pathetic you created an account just to cry here that you will not be able to cheat here any longer. This must be the "Legendary Cheater's" alt account since he was banned so recently. [QUOTE=DUA;44028896]From what I've read about EAC it is extremely intrusive, more so than other anti-cheat programs, to the point it is actually considered spyware which is why I asked my original questions. Some form of EULA would work but it would still have to satisfy the requirements of the Bill (list everything it collects etc). I'd be interested to see if they would be willing to do or not. Edit: Ok I'm out, big thanks to Tripider and Pop.ch for decent replies. It's nice to know not everyone here are douches :)[/QUOTE]

This section is so fascinating and depressing at the same time. Why doesn't everyone just play the game instead of pretending to be lawyers and discussing anti cheats, what a massive waste of your time.

[QUOTE=grimal;44029065]Just stop buying cheats. No law is going to stop EAC's implementation. There is more legal standing to sue the cheat providers than there is to stop EAC. Just stop cheating and your worries will go away. It's also rather pathetic you created an account just to cry here that you will not be able to cheat here any longer. This must be the "Legendary Cheater's" alt account since he was banned so recently.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Detsur;44029014]The guy is standing in a pile of Bullshit ten foot deep. Hackers and cheater think they are smarter then everyone. SO much so they will lie right to your face and think you dont notice. Then ramble on about how smart they are. Its called bullshit.[/QUOTE] he isn't even begging to cheat it seems :v: he seems more curious rather he isn't saying "brb court" like that one turd did

His entire platform is baseless because of the definition of Spyware. Spyware installs itself without your knowledge or permission. While they may have integrated the ability for the game to interface with EAC, that's all that's in the game right now - an interface TO EAC. EAC itself is something you apparently install willfully on your own, like Punkbuster, which we will be doing in the future. You have to manually agree to a EULA. Thus, it is not spyware, and that block of legalese is meaningless. Your argument is baseless. Plus, if they had to provide what they were sending and why, that would certainly make it easy to circumvent the cheat protection. How convenient for you. Good thing spyware laws don't apply here.

[QUOTE=DUA;44028896]From what I've read about EAC it is extremely intrusive, more so than other anti-cheat programs, to the point it is actually considered spyware [/QUOTE] Where is this magical line of intrusivity (should be a word) where non-spyware becomes spyware? Or perhaps this isn't how one determines if something is spyware or not?

[QUOTE=StryfeKhaos;44029213]Where is this magical line of intrusivity (should be a word) where non-spyware becomes spyware? Or perhaps this isn't how one determines if something is spyware or not?[/QUOTE] Spyware is the program that installed covertly and collects information about the user's activity without his consent. EAC installed not covertly and receives agreement when installing it. So where is spyware?

He already said we'd be notified and have to click yes to agree. Wtf are you idiots arguing about?

Correctly. Garry said this on the first page of discussions.

I forget the thread, but the issue of installing a 3rd party anti-cheat program came up before (couple of weeks ago, I think.) I remember saying I did not like the idea of using 3rd party programs and prefered an in-house solution. Mainly because I didn't like the idea of voluntarily installing some kind of spyware or rootkit like thing. I had no idea how much of a problem the cheat users would be. It looks like they are going to handle the installation from the game's side, but I have changed views on this and wouldn't mind installing it if it means the cheat threads go away. Whatever it takes to get Rust development back to development instead of this cheat-y damage control. The entertainment value of the "I was banned" threads has waned a bit. I'm no longer happy with the 1 or 2 post complaint that's immediately dismissed or snarkily shut down. Someone has to throw a wall-eyed fit and get mega-banned (is that a thing?) to get my attention now. Looking forward to the end of the cheat-y drama and am hopeful that the next wave of Rust drama will be more rewarding. I have faith that the collective immaturity of the internet will provide.

Oh boy drama and wannabe "lawyers"? someone pass me the popcorn! :v:

Hey guys so I pretty much read this entire thread and it was actually pretty interesting so here's my question... I'm wondering about something Spirit532 posted on the first page. [U]It looks like he changed the EAC setup file to read only and when he ran the game (rustlauncher.exe) he got install errors for EAC.[/U] Did anyone else try this? This seems contrary to what Garry said about it being on your computer but not installed/working/active yet. If it is indeed installing EAC, from the looks of all the other stuff you guys have posted that would be problem. Its not like I want to sue FP guys, in fact I welcome changes like this, but if there is some sort of legal process they need to follow, I would like that to be cleared up.

Here is Facepunch Studios "Terms Of Service" When you click play you are agreeing to this TOS. Therefore you are giving permission for Facepunch to monitor your game connection how they see fit. If you do not want or agree with how they go about doing so, then you simply do not click play.These TOS can be found here [url]http://playrust.com/tos/[/url] but I copied and pasted below for your convinience. vv Here’s the rules of Rust. If you don’t agree with them please do not buy or play. We want to keep this document as clear as possible so it obviously doesn’t cover every eventuality.. but it should cover the important stuff. What you can do You can play the game. You can create videos. You can create screenshots. You can live steam the game What you can’t do Please don’t do any of these things unless we tell you in writing that you can: Distribute, hack or modify Rust (any of it, client, server, art, code). Use third party programs to gain an advantage in the game. (cheats) Do anything we or you might consider naughty or illegal What you can expect of us We don’t make any promises about the contents of Rust – including what it does, how it does it, future patches, beta versions, reliability. If Rust breaks we will try to fix it as soon as humanly possible. To detect cheats, hacking and to improve Rust we might periodically report back to our servers with a variety of data. This might include, but is not limited to, your hardware statistics and your frame rate. Any of this information will only be used to detect cheats and improve the quality of the game. It won’t contain any personal information beyond your SteamID. We reserve the right to stop you using all or some of Rust if we catch you using any kind of malicious software to degrade the experience of other players. We reserve the right to change these rules at any time as we think necessary. If we do – we’ll put the updated version here. Facepunch Studios LTD is based in the UK so if there’s any kind of legal stuff or dispute about Rust – they’ll be governed by English Law and by the English Courts.

[QUOTE=KOT9KA;44029296]Spyware is the program that installed covertly and collects information about the user's activity without his consent. EAC installed not covertly and receives agreement when installing it. So where is spyware?[/QUOTE] I know what spyware is. I was being facetious because the OP claimed that something was spyware because it crossed some mythical line of being too intrusive.

[QUOTE=DUA] [I]*loads of nonsense and gibberish*[/I][/QUOTE] I've got a feeling you're trying way too hard to sound smarter than you really are. You're summing up the 'armchair lawyer' definition pretty nicely.

[QUOTE=MastaAron;44029647]I'm wondering about something Spirit532 posted on the first page. [U]It looks like he changed the EAC setup file to read only and when he ran the game (rustlauncher.exe) he got install errors for EAC.[/U] Did anyone else try this? This seems contrary to what Garry said about it being on your computer but not installed/working/active yet.[/QUOTE] When you program things, if you want to use someone else's work you have to integrate something known as a "library". Sometimes those libraries are a fully contained package deal, but sometimes, if you are interacting with an external service or application, the library just acts as an interface that negotiates between the two programs. They have integrated into Rust the interface library. EAC itself is an external service, so an interface is all it could possibly be. Yes the interface is likely loaded when the program loads, so setting it to read only is going to cause an error, but this does not mean that EAC itself is active, or even that the interface is listening yet. The interface is just loading into memory in preparation for future implementation/activation of EAC externally. It is likely utterly inactive, as if it wasn't, it'd be causing a shit ton of other errors. When EAC is active and the interface is listening, it will be very obvious to us, because we will have to install the external EAC service, which will come with a lengthy terms of service, which we will have to agree to. Until then, yes, modifying the settings of your game files will cause errors, because they are being loaded into memory. That does not mean they are actually being used. When Garry said EAC was not active or being used, he wasn't lying, EAC itself is an external program that indeed is not active or in use. However, that doesn't mean that the framework for getting EAC going (IE the interface) isn't active and in use.

[QUOTE=DUA;44028752]My apologies if me quoting current law and quite clearly illustrating how it applies to EAC is too hard for you to understand, and my apologies if you cannot understand the post where I said "I appreciate the fact you guys want to defend Gary and the game, please do not mistake my post for an attack as it isn't. I love Rust and what Garry and Facepunch are doing and I want to support them, however I am curious as to how they will deal with our Spyware Bill if they choose to enforce EAC on Australian customers." It's quite surprising how hostile this forum is and how many close minded people automatically label anyone who dares challenge anything as a "cheater". Bit of a shame. [editline]24th February 2014[/editline] Thank you for another well thought out and constructful post, your contribution is valued and appreciated :)[/QUOTE] As suggested earlier. You aren't forced to run this. You are presented with a TOS and if you agree you install. If you refuse then you do not qualify to play the game.

"added -insecure to server launch - same as source engine" ([URL="https://trello.com/c/oNo0StT4/280-added-insecure-to-server-launch-same-as-source-engine"]added in next vesion on trello[/URL]) Is this due to anti-cheat?