• Why Wildstar is the true heir to World of Warcraft's legacy
    53 replies, posted
I think this article really made Facepunch think bad about WildStar :v:
I think a lot of people have an issue with it being a Theme Park MMO because everyone wants more Sandbox MMOs. The issue is that if EVERY MMO was a sandbox, they'd get just as annoyed as they are with Theme Park MMOs. Honestly, making an MMO is just a bad choice. I love Wildstar to death, but MMOs are doing terrible in the market at the moment.
Just an fyi, the devs say that there is about a year + a half of endgame content already developed for the game.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;44702556]To be fair, after GW2 I can't stand MMOs that use holy trinity system. It just feels wrong to be tied to one role.[/QUOTE] the lack of actually useful healers and tanks was one of the worst things about GW2
[QUOTE=Mingebox;44703909]Is it because the art stlyle looks almost identical?[/QUOTE] How's that braille keyboard working out for you?
[QUOTE=themooselord;44704348]Just an fyi, the devs say that there is about a year + a half of endgame content already developed for the game.[/QUOTE] This is genuinely the funniest thing I've read all week. I know Carbine are former WoW devs but I gotta ask, do they know the people who raid in MMO's :v:? [QUOTE=JerryK;44704357]the lack of actually useful healers and tanks was one of the worst things about GW2[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say one system is better than the other, but playing GW2 at times certainly made me miss the trinity. Dungeon combat always came across to me as some sort of barely contained chaos, with aggro passing everywhere and everyone building for DPS then just hitting 6 whenever they got low on health. The pros are that you don't need to wait for a tank and a healer to join your party, but I've also been kicked from groups because quote "engi bad dps" so v:v:v
[QUOTE=Raidyr;44704587]This is genuinely the funniest thing I've read all week. I know Carbine are former WoW devs but I gotta ask, do they know the people who raid in MMO's :v:?[/QUOTE] It's gated content too. Like the entire endgame for WildStar caters to poopsockers. Which is cool and all but as someone who works a 9-5 desk job and maintains a decently active social life, I vastly prefer WoW's "pick up and play, even raids" model. [editline]2nd May 2014[/editline] On that note I don't see why Wildstar being the heir to WoW's legacy being a good thing - WoW has deviated from what it's done in the past for good reason.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;44704615]It's gated content too. Like the entire endgame for WildStar caters to poopsockers. Which is cool and all but as someone who works a 9-5 desk job and maintains a decently active social life, I vastly prefer WoW's "pick up and play, even raids" model. [editline]2nd May 2014[/editline] On that note I don't see why Wildstar being the heir to WoW's legacy being a good thing - WoW has deviated from what it's done in the past for good reason.[/QUOTE] In many aspects i think WildStar needs a good year or 2 till its on its prime, on the forums there are continues discussions as well about everything, from the leveling to customization and that it is 'for hardcore players only'. WildStar has a lot of potential to become something but we can only see that potential if they are careful with how they are going to expand it. Sorta like how for many people that Combat Update in Star Wars Galaxies ruined their game.
All these professional (paid) review sites keep saying Wildstar is the next best thing to hit gaming, but all the footage I've seen of people actually playing it makes it look stupid and generic, like they might as well be hyping up Age of Conan or LOTRO as the best thing happening to gaming.
It doesn't do anything new, but what it does, it does really well for the most part. And if something is wrong, so far the devs have been listening and solving the problems, they communicate quite a bit too, kind of missed that since Star Trek Online's devs started doing that much less. [QUOTE=Looter;44704712]All these professional (paid) review sites keep saying Wildstar is the next best thing to hit gaming, but all the footage I've seen of people actually playing it makes it look stupid and generic, like they might as well be hyping up Age of Conan or LOTRO as the best thing happening to gaming.[/QUOTE] A professional reviewer likes the game? Must be paid by NCSoft! People have different opinions, deal with it.
[QUOTE=Looter;44704712]All these professional (paid) review sites keep saying Wildstar is the next best thing to hit gaming, but all the footage I've seen of people actually playing it makes it look stupid and generic, like they might as well be hyping up Age of Conan or LOTRO as the best thing happening to gaming.[/QUOTE] Usually most MMO's are typically boring if you look it from a video, if i look at the generic WoW, EVE, EverQuest, LotrO or Star Trek video then its just some guy walking around and shooting things and then you have those separate videos of doing raids and whatnot which are usually more attractive. With a MMO the real thing lays into developing your own character, the guy who uploaded the video would enjoy the video more then some stranger because he created and developed the character.
Frankly GW2's lack of a holy trinity sounds great on paper but it made PVE content feel boring and unorganized. Didn't do it for me. Also I hated the way they handled skills, having multiple skill sets based on your weapons is cool, but you unocked them too damn quick and suddenly all feeling of progression disappeared. And I really hated the living story thing. Again sounds great on paper bit having new content just disappear like that makes the endgame feel weak as hell. Its a shame because there is a lot of the game I do like. Especially Asura. Those smug assholes were cool.
[QUOTE=Skyward;44704807]Frankly GW2's lack of a holy trinity sounds great on paper but it made PVE content feel boring and unorganized. Didn't do it for me. Also I hated the way they handled skills, having multiple skill sets based on your weapons is cool, but you in locked them to damn quick and suddenly all feeling of progression disappeared. And I really hated the living story thing. Again sounds great on paper bit having new content just disappear like that makes the endgame feel weak as hell. Its a shame because there is a lot of the game I do like. Especially Asura. Those smug assholes were cool.[/QUOTE] The execution of said concepts wasn't the best, hence why more games should try instead of reverting back to wow concepts.
i feel that the lack of classes can be a very good thing, but that gw2 handled it very badly where most classes could do most things. the way i see it, the game should reward you for investing time in a specific path in the game, be it dps, healing, crafting, support, crowd control or whatever. you shouldnt be able to do literally everything in the game with one class unless you have invested a lot of time and effort into being good in those areas
I have to ask what can you do, you have someone you holds onto the boss, someone to keep the group alive, perhaps someone to strengthen the group, which could work in a game such as this, and then there's the ones who deals more damage. Having none of this is quite boring, I think FFXIV did this quite good, even as DPS I felt like I mattered to the group.
I'm going to be super cautious about wildstar til it comes out, but I'll probably buy it and try out the first month. With what little time I've had in the betas a lot of the "NEW COMBAT STYLE!!!" and "WOW YOU CAN DO THINGS" propaganda has fallen flat for me, as like mentioned before the 'telegraph' system isn't anything new. Even FFXIV beat them to the punch with ground-markings for AOE buildups [img]http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/1e50acf08461e355e3e5d4736391ba3f787720f1_13.png[/img] I've seen some interesting hints and they're still touting that telegraphs will become more and more interesting through the game, so I'm hoping It'll actually throw its best at me, turning an arena into a giant touhou style bossfight with tiny gaps you have to navigate and dodge to/through. subscription model feels obnoxious to me now, not strictly because of GW2's free sub/pay for cosmetics thing, but because I burned out on FFXIV strictly because I felt too much pressure to play and use up my time. It's becoming an outdated model. I'd likely have left GW if it was a $15 subscription, though being free I don't care when I play or for how long, I'm not wasting any time or money unless I want to go and dump $10 on frivilous junk in the cash shop to support ANet. [QUOTE=JerryK;44704357]the lack of actually useful healers and tanks was one of the worst things about GW2[/QUOTE] everyone thinks that because there was no direct "heal targeted friend" button like your classic healers. Those that played elementalist found a few ground-targeted water skills, but they never really feel impressively helpful when using them soloing around pve. The great thing about it is that the trait system is way more than just granting a few extra numbers, you can alter a lot of aspects on your skills and setups. My warrior was built to provide ridiculous heals using utility slots, I could grant myself and up to 5 players around me ~50-75% health back with the smack of a few buttons, without having to halt any of my normal attacking My elementalist didn't even bother with staff/scepter's heals, instead utilizing daggers for damage sake, but the build caused nearly everything I did to grant small heals to me and stack up health regeneration to friendly players if they're in range of my attacks. In other cases, I've built up my ele (and my engie) to be obnoxiously tanky in wvw, surviving through crowds of enemy players and bunkering down to hold attention while more of our own show up. it has its downfalls in providing some muddied up combinations that you have to sift out, which is hardly even emphasized if you just play through pvp (since NPCs aren't too challenging and [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1390479&p=44704807&viewfull=1#post44704807]you[/url] just need raw damage output to get through most of it). This is the problem with their system, is that it tells you you can do everything, and people will start out by just adding a broad set of traits that don't compliment anything and don't add up past small passives. The heart of working out competent builds lies in PvP and competitive world vs world play (despite it being considered nothing more than a zerg fest by uninterested players), where there's huge risk/reward to being a glass cannon, a staff ele who can provide combo fields for buffs/mass healing/regen, a crazy bunker that can keep capture points contested and enemies pissed off while other players wittle away at them, a mobile shield that can lock groups down and reflect attacks in on a mob as it opens up on a fight to me the actual endgame is becoming a competent user of your class, with its traits and skills. the 5 learned skills per weapon are hardly the end of what your class can do, and despite having played with the same elementalist since release, I'm still coming up with builds that change how I play it entirely. Hitting 80 is not the point at all, it's just where you stop gaining base stat numbers. (also yes protocol the customization is pretty important to a lot of people) BUT, hey we could all use some largescale raiding endgame junk. Most of the dungeons were extremely tough for anyone who wasn't nearing 80, and there's a number of 80-only ones that require some serious teamwork and patience. From what I know right now, I'd be plenty happy with playing Wildstar to get to high level junk and do old WoW style raids with its newer age combat system. These kind of games may share the same premise of "being an MMO", but the content and execution go in different directions and provide their own experiences, some more interesting than others depending on your preference. [QUOTE=darth-veger;44704729]Usually most MMO's are typically boring if you look it from a video, if i look at the generic WoW, EVE, EverQuest, LotrO or Star Trek video then its just some guy walking around and shooting things and then you have those separate videos of doing raids and whatnot which are usually more attractive. With a MMO the real thing lays into developing your own character, the guy who uploaded the video would enjoy the video more then some stranger because he created and developed the character.[/QUOTE] I HATE footage of MMOs because it's usually just a max-zoomed out view of a tiny guy spinning around in a blob of colorful explosions and AOE markers. it says very little about the skills they're using, what they're doing to other players, or whether or not what's happening is really 'the norm' or any fun for myself at all. Like with sports, I love playing, but watching is boring
I think for most people in this thread, including Dai. Is that Wildstar needs a decent way to introduce people to the game. I mean i agree on some points you guys make but WildStar is not really trying to kill off WoW, the Blizzard employees that now work at Carbine said they wanted to do anything but WoW. That said, give WildStar a chance at least. Every beta is fixing a lot of things like this weekends. New HUD elements, better optimization, some of my spells seem to be either nerfed or buffed and some of the graphical details have been tweaked. So it should be extremely obvious that for the last few betas the game has only been improving. On some areas i have nothing to say like raids or dungeons since i don't do a lot of those neither do i PvP. But from my stance in which i just do quests with friends and gather loot then i think WildStar did really good on that front.
[QUOTE=JerryK;44704357]the lack of actually useful healers and tanks was one of the worst things about GW2[/QUOTE] That's because GW2 wasn't based on the holy trinity? You had some side heals here and there but tanking is nigh impossible due to aggro mechanics and healing was pointless. The entire game was just about dps (except pvp) and building any different in dungeons made you waste other peoples' time. [editline]2nd May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=dai;44704949]I've seen some interesting hints and they're still touting that telegraphs will become more and more interesting through the game, so I'm hoping It'll actually throw its best at me, turning an arena into a giant touhou style bossfight with tiny gaps you have to navigate and dodge to/through.[/QUOTE] I've seen the devs play some (or at least showcase some) of the dungeons and this is pretty accurate. The telegraphs start to get crazy complicated in some dungeons. I wish I could find the video but I don't remember the name of it. I'll update this post when I find it. Problem with telegraphs like that is if you're lagging even slightly you're going to get buttfucked.
[QUOTE=themooselord;44704348]Just an fyi, the devs say that there is about a year + a half of endgame content already developed for the game.[/QUOTE] So basically a bunch of content that will likely be cleared in a month(I'm being generous) and then the next "part" of the content will be unlocked based on time so that they don't have to develop new content until the game goes F2P? [editline]2nd May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=darth-veger;44704121]I think this article really made Facepunch think bad about WildStar :v:[/QUOTE] No, people on Facepunch think bad about it because it's just another MMO with a subscription that's going to be an average experience, not because this article was made.
I was crazy excited for it for many months, checking everything trying to get in to betas and such. Then I finally managed to get in to a beta weekend a couple months ago and honestly, that just muted all my energy. It was just a let down really, there wasn't enough interesting about it and differentiating to justify paying the purchase price let alone a subscription fee.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44707763]I was crazy excited for it for many months, checking everything trying to get in to betas and such. Then I finally managed to get in to a beta weekend a couple months ago and honestly, that just muted all my energy. It was just a let down really, there wasn't enough interesting about it and differentiating to justify paying the purchase price let alone a subscription fee.[/QUOTE] It seems to be very different for everyone, most people i introduced it to were in love with it while some just hated the happy artstyle or got sad from its still somewhat typical MMO features like kill this, go there, buy that, level up.
[QUOTE=gbtygfvyg;44705655]That's because GW2 wasn't based on the holy trinity? You had some side heals here and there but tanking is nigh impossible due to aggro mechanics and healing was pointless. [B]The entire game was just about dps (except pvp) and building any different in dungeons made you waste other peoples' time[/B][/QUOTE] you act like this is something in the game's favor
[QUOTE=dai;44704949]I'm going to be super cautious about wildstar til it comes out, but I'll probably buy it and try out the first month. With what little time I've had in the betas a lot of the "NEW COMBAT STYLE!!!" and "WOW YOU CAN DO THINGS" propaganda has fallen flat for me, as like mentioned before the 'telegraph' system isn't anything new. Even FFXIV beat them to the punch with ground-markings for AOE buildups [img]http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/1e50acf08461e355e3e5d4736391ba3f787720f1_13.png[/img] [/QUOTE] They don't claim to have invented telegraphs. The point is [I]all your moves are telegraphed.[/I] Which makes it a lot different than other MMOs out there. It's not just clicking on a guy and having the majority of your abilities home in on them. You miss by actually messing up your aim or having the enemy out maneuvering you, not some arbitrary accuracy stat dice roll. You said you've had some experience in the betas? if you didn't play it much, I can see why you think that way. The early levels play very simply compared to later content.
[QUOTE=Anonymuzz;44707857]you act like this is something in the game's favor[/QUOTE] I wasn't putting it in the game's favor. GW2's dungeons are awful, end of story.
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