[QUOTE=Ownederd;40574344]what are you even rambling about bud[/QUOTE]
I'm confused as to why sexism is getting all of this attention when there are other, as far as I can tell equally valid problems.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;40574350]I'm confused as to why sexism is getting all of this attention when there are other, as far as I can tell equally valid problems.[/QUOTE]
someone points out the sexist atmosphere that is common in most computer games and suddenly it gets more attention than other issues because you say so
ok
[B]edit:[/B]
what does this have to do with anything and what are you honestly complaining about
It could instead be a film about harassment in video games in general. I guess that's what he means.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;40574380]someone points out the sexist atmosphere that is common in most computer games and suddenly it gets more attention than other issues because you say so
ok
[B]edit:[/B]
what does this have to do with anything and what are you honestly complaining about[/QUOTE]
It just seems to me like something being sexist, not just in video games but in general, is seen as being so much worse than if it were otherwise disparaging, and I am genuinely curious as to why this is.
I mean, you don't see people making a documentary about racism in video games, you don't see government funded groups dedicated towards the advancement of homosexuals in technology, and so forth.
[QUOTE=_Axel;40574481]It could instead be a film about harassment in video games in general. I guess that's what he means.[/QUOTE]
this film explicitly focuses on discrimination towards women in video game culture, which is much more prevalant; i've seen plenty of cases in which people don't give a hoot or a holler about what race you are, but when someone's gender comes into play, then sexist jokes fly around faster than flying turds
[B]edit:[/B]
you're gonna encounter a specific thing in a a certain atmosphere much more often
I hope this is better than Anita Sarkeesian, I mean she was clearly just money grabbing.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;40569974]All of them are insults aimed at people's common or glaring weak points. Males don't like being called faggots. Women don't like being called sluts. There's no difference.
And anything including stuff like "faggot" isn't a general insult, it's also focusing on sexual orientation. I don't see any [I]~gaymers~[/I] asking for documentary money on Kickstarter.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that's the case. Otherwise, it would be common to hear people flinging derogatory terms that are based on white, straight, rich, and male.
Well, at least it's about actual women instead of fictional characters.
I'd still rather see a documentary about say, racial stereotyping or prejudice in gaming.
I'm a man and I get more harassment than any woman.
[QUOTE=Deathclaw.;40575160]I'm a man and I get more harassment than any woman.[/QUOTE]
and you would know this in your capacity as someone who isn't a woman
[QUOTE=Weirdness;40569667]You haven't been reading facepunch much have you.
A lot of people on here are pro-feminist.[/QUOTE]
not enough
[editline]8th May 2013[/editline]
There's always been an undercurrent of sexism and homophobia in a lot of gaming communities, that's a fact. Maybe it's because people who play games all the time are less mature and more likely to have stupid beliefs, or maybe it's because gaming is seen as a refuge for straight males, but it's there. Just think of the amount of times you hear sexist/homophobic slurs like bitch/faggot being bandied around with abandon.
[editline]8th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Deathclaw.;40575160]I'm a man and I get more harassment than any woman.[/QUOTE]
you're also a generalizing idiot
[editline]8th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ardosos;40574334]And racist insults don't reinforce racist culture? Homophobic insults don't reinforce homophobic culture? What makes sexism special in this?[/QUOTE]
because sexist remarks are, distubingly, far more prevalent than racist remarks and reflect the unhealthy attitudes of the gaming community/industry as a whole
[editline]8th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=VaSTinY;40569427]I have a feeling it's going to be unbelieveably biased
And to the people rating me dumb: FYI what I mean by "unbelievably biased" is that they're very very likely to only interview girls who are having it done to them, and no men from their point of view or anything, just to further increase "believeability" of their cause among those extreme feminists.[/QUOTE]
What fucking extreme feminists? Seriously, people keep bringing this up with stuff like 'well, some MRAs are pretty extreme but there are a lot of extreme feminists too' and other bullshit. Where the fuck are they? Where is their fucking viewpoint on the issue? Maybe they don't have one because you made them the fuck up.
(I'm not saying there aren't very small groups of man hating 'feminists' out there, but those people don't even qualify as feminists and are very very fringe.)
[QUOTE=Generic.Monk;40575259]because sexist remarks are, distubingly, far more prevalent than racist remarks and reflect the unhealthy attitudes of the gaming community/industry as a whole[/QUOTE]
I dunno, I see more occurances of nigger or kike or other black or jewish racial slurs online than anything else.
[QUOTE=Ardosos;40574350]I'm confused as to why sexism is getting all of this attention when there are other, as far as I can tell equally valid problems.[/QUOTE]
roughly 50% of the population is female, it's the largest group with these problems. There have been gay-focused kickstarters like this too, and I've seen one focusing on racial problems (though not in gaming)
Personally I think a better documentary would be about how women are portrayed in games and everything surrounding that.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;40574156]I wish people asked if I was hot online.[/QUOTE]
You'd be singing a different song if your value as a person was constantly tied to your appearance, constantly, in your day to day life
[QUOTE=An Armed Bear;40576361]Personally I think a better documentary would be about how women are portrayed in games and everything surrounding that.[/QUOTE]
We got that. Talk to Anita Sarkeesian.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40576966]You'd be singing a different song if your value as a person was constantly tied to your appearance, constantly, in your day to day life[/QUOTE]
You act like appearances dont matter to guys as well, and I still wouldnt be singing a different song because I wouldnt let that shit get to me.
Just like how I dont care when someone sends me death threats over an online game.
The FAQ at the bottom of the Kickstarter page actually answers a lot of the questions and concerns posted in this thread
[QUOTE][B]But all people get harassed during gaming! Why is the film just about women?[/B]
While it is unfortunately true that many people get verbally abused while gaming, the film is specifically highlighting women for two primary reasons:
1. Many of the attacks that women experience are specifically targeted towards their gender.
2. When women in the industry come forward, they often experience much more criticism and backlash than their male counterparts.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
[B]Will the film cover other minority groups besides women?[/B]
As stated above, women are not the only group who experience harassment in gaming. Many other people are attacked due to their ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion, and disability. However, due to the vast nature of the subject, I chose to focus primarily on women for this documentary. While we will touch on issues related to queer women and women of color, a film profiling ALL abuse towards ALL groups would be too large and complex to fit into 90 minutes. I think it would be wonderful to see a film, for example, about the experiences of people of color in gaming. I hope one day that film will be made as well.[/QUOTE]
Maybe if you guys did some reading before flying into a blind rage after seeing the words "women in gaming" you would know these things.
[QUOTE=dgg;40570180]Women count for about 50% of the population. Do I need to say more?
Also the other groups aren't doing anything about it, that's their problem that they won't take action, not the girls problem.[/QUOTE]
Actually 45% (In the United States of America)
[url]https://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0080.pdf[/url]
But really, games are often logical (A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.)skill and mechanical workings: and it has been shown that this is a trait of activity that Males often prefer (Even from a young age): while more human-based or social oriented activities are more attractive to females. This really explains why there have historically been less females in gaming even before it became what you may call a "male dominated" market now.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KQ2xrnyH2wQ[/url]
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40576966]You'd be singing a different song if your value as a person was constantly tied to your appearance, constantly, in your day to day life[/QUOTE]
Yes, because fat hairy guys don't get shit at all right ?
Seriously, people get shit regardless of their gender about how they look, especially online when you can anonymously comment on things.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40579519]
But really, games are often logical (A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.)skill and mechanical workings: and it has been shown that this is a trait of activity that Males often prefer (Even from a young age): while more human-based or social oriented activities are more attractive to females. This really explains why there have historically been less females in gaming even before it became what you may call a "male dominated" market now.[/QUOTE]
god dammit
there goes the thread
if this is done properly and not full of horrendous holes and ignorance like a certain other feminist series (comprised of 1 video in over a year)
then i will be fine with it
but i have the growing feeling it is going to be a bias circlejerk
[quote]A useful warning: If you don’t like posts about issues related to women and gaming, don’t read this post, and maybe scroll to one of the 17,000 other articles on the site! Hope this helps. (Boy would you look silly if you commented about it now.)[/quote]
[QUOTE=HGrunt;40570075]Being a gamer has nothing to do with the insults. It's just that there are enough desperate and lonely guys playing, so they *will* take a chance to flirt with or insult a girl, especially when being behind relative anonymity. This isn't rocket science.[/QUOTE]
lol
there are people who take gaming culture way too seriously, and there's an undeniable amount of them that would be happy with it being a boys-only club
[QUOTE=kanesenpai~;40579541]god dammit
there goes the thread[/QUOTE]
I'm concerned at what you mean by this.
I simply stated what can be verified by scientific studies done in European countries (Like norway), I don't have actual cites on hand, but that video I posted clearly covers what I said with real doctors and scientists.
If you view the post as sexist, you have a problem: I didn't say anybody was less of value, or that they should be treated differently: simply that statistically women and men are interested in different things: and you can make a case for it in biology and Evolutionary lineage.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40579519]
But really, games are often logical (A form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.)skill and mechanical workings: and it has been shown that this is a trait of activity that Males often prefer (Even from a young age): while more human-based or social oriented activities are more attractive to females. This really explains why there have historically been less females in gaming even before it became what you may call a "male dominated" market now.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KQ2xrnyH2wQ[/url][/QUOTE]
the worst thing about the internet is that everyone clings to one thing
you have an entire world of information available at your hand, but you just fucking cling to the same exact video everyone else posts, even if it barely supports your argument
[QUOTE=thisispain;40579696]the worst thing about the internet is that everyone clings to one thing
you have an entire world of information available at your hand, but you just fucking cling to the same exact video everyone else posts, even if it barely supports your argument[/QUOTE]
Yes, out of everything bad in the internet: people being consistent about their conclusions (at-least when not disproved with evidence).
I use the video because it proves the point to a needed point: and this stupid argument does not appeal to me enough to spend a bunch of time on scholar websites pulling up studies. And yes, the video supports my argument, maybe since it's objective about it you are mistaking that for it "barley supporting my argument", but it's better than the hollow ground "feminists" often stand on.
And to impose my opinion, why the fuck do we have feminists? Why not just equalists, people who follow the doctrine of EVERYBODY being equal, instead of focusing on one subject (for example gender/sexaul equality): and just accepting and claiming that there's a Patriarchy that everybody follows.
Much of this feminism crap falls flat on it's face: and it's because it all comes down to a chicken-and-egg argument with many things, 'women wear makeup because if they don't they get called ugly people call women ugly without makeup because only ugly women don't wear makeup' and so on and so forth.
[QUOTE=thisispain;40579696]the worst thing about the internet is that everyone clings to one thing
you have an entire world of information available at your hand, but you just fucking cling to the same exact video everyone else posts, even if it barely supports your argument[/QUOTE]
The problem is the other videos just show how wrong he is.
[QUOTE=person11;40579748]The problem is the other videos just show how wrong he is.[/QUOTE]
Yes, so wrong that in civilized countries women and men often have polarized interests, regardless of people intervening to depolarize them (Women getting a shitton of grants in Engineering)
Have you really never considered that it was beneficial for women and men to evolve different hard-wired interests? And that these hard-wired differences can be observed even in young children.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40579743]Yes, out of everything bad in the internet: people being consistent about their conclusions (at-least when not disproved with evidence).
I use the video because it proves the point to a needed point: and this stupid argument does not appeal to me enough to spend a bunch of time on scholar websites pulling up studies. And yes, the video supports my argument, maybe since it's objective about it you are mistaking that for it "barley supporting my argument", but it's better than the hollow ground "feminists" often stand on.
And to impose my opinion, why the fuck do we have feminists? Why not just equalists, people who follow the doctrine of EVERYBODY being equal, instead of focusing on one subject (for example gender/sexaul equality): and just accepting and claiming that there's a Patriarchy that everybody follows.
Much of this feminism crap falls flat on it's face: and it's because it all comes down to a chicken-and-egg argument with many things, 'women wear makeup because if they don't they get called ugly people call women ugly without makeup because only ugly women don't wear makeup' and so on and so forth.[/QUOTE]
Focusing on specific issues is perfectly fine. Your argument of you wanting equality for everyone turns into complaining whenever there is a moment without straight white rich males makes no sense.
The concept of an equalist is a conservative distraction tactic that makes it look like you really care about others. If you are an equalist you can support feminism, LGBT campaigns, and any issue that involves inequality, including the male dominated video game and everything else industries.
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40579762]Yes, so wrong that in civilized countries women and men often have polarized interests.
Have you really never considered that it was beneficial for women and men to evolve different hard-wired interests? And that these hard-wired differences can be observed even in young children.[/QUOTE]
I've seen studies that contradict that, and say that women and men are similar enough in mental capacity and structure that all but the very most basic gender roles (women making babies) cannot be justified.
Most of what people think is innate comes from society.
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
Actually why are we even arguing? How can I argue with someone who is asking why we have feminists? You are going to have to advance a few more intellectual levels before we can discuss video game specific feminism. The need for feminism in society is not debatable. People who do not agree are either Republicans, neckbeard fedora libertarian atheists, the BNP, naive children, or idiots.
This may sound like one of my typical excuses not to argue. I've been accused of this before. But in this case, the need for feminism is so painfully obvious to anyone who has researched it or taken a course on it, or who has stepped outside, that anyone who denies it can't be taken seriously. The information is just a click away. Find it.
[QUOTE=person11;40579763]Focusing on specific issues is perfectly fine. Your argument of you wanting equality for everyone turns into complaining whenever there is a moment without straight white rich males makes no sense.
The concept of an equalist is a conservative distraction tactic that makes it look like you really care about others. If you are an equalist you can support feminism, LGBT campaigns, and any issue that involves inequality, including the male dominated video game and everything else industries.[/QUOTE]
The male dominated game and Engineering industries is a byproduct of the interest polarization (which is hard-wired) I previously mentioned.
You also assume that there is need for Feminist campaigns: there aren't. Women are legally equal to Men, and often get a fair amount of support where men don't (in the aforementioned Engineering grants). Why do you feel it's bad that videogames HAPPEN to have an interest that contradicts your wanting everything to be split as if Men and Women were biologically the same.
I have no need for distraction tactics, I am a gay-loving pansexual freak that thinks homosexual marriage should be legal: but not only homosexual marriage, I would also love multiple partner marriages (Regardless of which sex they are).
I don't think you should be calling yourself a feminist since the problems the feminists of the 1960s where addressed.
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