[QUOTE=glitchvid;40579792]The male dominated game and Engineering industries is a byproduct of the interest polarization (which is hard-wired) I previously mentioned.
You also assume that there is need for Feminist campaigns: there aren't. Women are legally equal to Men, and often get a fair amount of support where men don't (in the aforementioned Engineering grants). Why do you feel it's bad that videogames HAPPEN to have an interest that contradicts your wanting everything to be split as if Men and Women were biologically the same.
I have no need for distraction tactics, I am a gay-loving pansexual freak that thinks homosexual marriage should be legal: but not only homosexual marriage, I would also love multiple partner marriages (Regardless of which sex they are).
I don't think you should be calling yourself a feminist since the problems the feminists of the 1960s where addressed.[/QUOTE]
You are naive if you think equality before the law is enough.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40579743]Yes, out of everything bad in the internet: people being consistent about their conclusions (at-least when not disproved with evidence).[/QUOTE]
theres being consistent and theres being dogmatic and intellectually lazy
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40579743]I use the video because it proves the point to a needed point: and this stupid argument does not appeal to me enough to spend a bunch of time on scholar websites pulling up studies. And yes, the video supports my argument, maybe since it's objective about it you are mistaking that for it "barley supporting my argument", but it's better than the hollow ground "feminists" often stand on.[/QUOTE]
no the video is trying to prove a point and youre using it to give yourself legitimacy
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40579743]And to impose my opinion, why the fuck do we have feminists? Why not just equalists, people who follow the doctrine of EVERYBODY being equal, instead of focusing on one subject (for example gender/sexaul equality): and just accepting and claiming that there's a Patriarchy that everybody follows.[/QUOTE]
why dont you read something by a feminist who knows what they are talking about so you dont have to ask ridic questions.
[QUOTE=person11;40579763] I've seen studies that contradict that, and say that women and men are similar enough in mental capacity and structure that all but the very most basic gender roles (women making babies) cannot be justified.
[/QUOTE]
Never said the mental capacity was different, I said that interests were different for logical and sensible reasons traceable in evolution.
Most of what people think is innate comes from society.
[QUOTE=person11;40579763]
Actually why are we even arguing? How can I argue with someone who is asking why we have feminists? You are going to have to advance a few more intellectual levels before we can discuss video game specific feminism. The need for feminism in society is not debatable. People who do not agree are either Republicans, neckbeard fedora libertarian atheists, the BNP, naive children, or idiots.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, anybody who disagrees with you is an idiot, etc, etc.
[QUOTE=person11;40579763]
This may sound like one of my typical excuses not to argue. I've been accused of this before. But in this case, the need for feminism is so painfully obvious to anyone who has researched it or taken a course on it, or who has stepped outside, that anyone who denies it can't be taken seriously. The information is just a click away. Find it.[/QUOTE]
Yes the "I can't actually get any evidence: so you find it yourself!" retort.
[QUOTE=thisispain;40579809]theres being consistent and theres being dogmatic and intellectually lazy
no the video is trying to prove a point and youre using it to give yourself legitimacy
why dont you read something by a feminist who knows what they are talking about so you don't have to ask ridic questions.[/QUOTE]
The video has observable points in it, and they happen to concur with my point: therefore it giving my argument legitimacy is bad ?
I don't need to read things by "certified feminist", there's already enough going on with skepchicks and that whole cult.
[QUOTE=thisispain;40579696]the worst thing about the internet is that everyone clings to one thing
you have an entire world of information available at your hand, but you just fucking cling to the same exact video everyone else posts, even if it barely supports your argument[/QUOTE]
wot
out of all these gender equality arguments I have read through, I have only seen that video posted two, maybe three times.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40579792]
You also assume that there is need for Feminist campaigns: there aren't. Women are legally equal to Men[/QUOTE]
k say that to women in saudi arabia or malala who was shot in the head for demanding the right to education
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=elowin;40579819]wot
out of all these gender equality arguments I have read through, I have only seen that video posted two, maybe three times.[/QUOTE]
good for you
[QUOTE=thisispain;40579821]good for you[/QUOTE]
thx
[QUOTE=thisispain;40579821]k say that to women in saudi arabia or malala who was shot in the head for demanding the right to education[/QUOTE]
get off the drugs, nobody is arguing against women in the middle east generally being opressed as fuck
[QUOTE=thisispain;40579821]k say that to women in saudi arabia or malala who was shot in the head for demanding the right to education
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
good for you[/QUOTE]
I was under the impression we where talking about in civilized countries.
In third world, or religious doctrine ruled governments there are a lot of problems: there is a place for feminism there, but not in fist worlds where the legality is equal.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40579818]Never said the mental capacity was different, I said that interests were different for logical and sensible reasons traceable in evolution.
Yes, anybody who disagrees with you is an idiot, etc, etc.
Yes the "I can't actually get any evidence: so you find it yourself!" retort.[/QUOTE]
1. I addressed more than capacity. Men and women are easily able to have interests in the same thing. It depends on the society and family they are raised in. Sociology 101.
2. My points are so basic and universally accepted by people more intelligent and qualified than we are, that yes, disagreeing with the most basic axioms of modern day society does make you an idiot.
3. I am simply making the same argument as thisispain's: the internet had a huge wealth of information, even free college courses! There is no reason to limit or delude yourself by concentrating on such a limited portion of it! I am only telling you to find it for yourself because the information is so readily accessible. If you really want my help in your education, I'd recommend starting with de Beauvoir and her amazing work: The Second Sex. Should tell you everything you need to know about why being equal before the law is not enough for women to be equal to men.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40579846]I was under the impression we where talking about in civilized countries.[/QUOTE]
feminism is concerned with the rights of women, "civilized" countries or otherwise.
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=elowin;40579838]
get off the drugs, nobody is arguing against women in the middle east generally being opressed as fuck[/QUOTE]
i think he can post for himself thank you
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40579818]
I don't need to read things by "certified feminist"[/QUOTE]
then why should i even consider your argument when you dont take the time to understand my side? if you actually care about what you are talking about you'd do the best to educate yourself on it.
[QUOTE=thisispain;40579863]feminism is concerned with the rights of women, "civilized" countries or otherwise.[/QUOTE]
I feel like if we get into talking about the countries he deems not civilized, we will be launched into an argument involving us telling him that general conservatism being the issue and not religion, not Islam, not Arab or Persian culture, and not race.
[QUOTE=thisispain;40579863]i think he can post for himself thank you[/QUOTE]
hi this is a [url=http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/forum]forum[/url]
If everything is formed by society, how do you explain the gender equality paradox in norway?
[QUOTE=elowin;40579873]hi this is a [url=http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/forum]forum[/url][/QUOTE]
an obligation to post is not in that definition
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=SuddenImpact;40579896]If everything is formed by society, how do you explain the gender equality paradox in norway?[/QUOTE]
what's the relevance of this
[QUOTE=person11;40579869]I feel like if we get into talking about the countries he deems not civilized, we will be launched into an argument involving us telling him that general conservatism being the issue and not religion, not Islam, not Arab or Persian culture, and not race.[/QUOTE]
For the sake of this argument I've been assuming civilized to mean a country where the laws don't discriminate against the female sex.
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;40579902]
what's the relevance of this[/QUOTE]
Well, as I posted earlier: even in countries where equality is promoted (And for example, many female specific grants in Engineering) there is a quite striking polarization, and he referenced the one in Norway (nicknamed the Equality Paradox) as an example.
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;40579863]
then why should i even consider your argument when you dont take the time to understand my side? if you actually care about what you are talking about you'd do the best to educate yourself on it.[/QUOTE]
I am taking the time to understand it better (or else this argument would be pointless). I was trying to imply that there's no real "Certified feminist", because they come in varying degrees: and was simply saying that I already get quite a bit of exposure to the Feminist agenda when reading or in school.
[url]http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1529-8817.2004.00098.x/full[/url]
This study is an interesting read about how far biology determines behaviour, including false claims about society induced interests between males and females.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;40579818]Never said the mental capacity was different, I said that interests were different for logical and sensible reasons traceable in evolution.[/QUOTE]
What
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
Are you one of those people who argue that men prefer STEM because they're ~hardwired~ for it??
well at least the producer did research and actually interviewed people, and already has some content.
can't really say the same about other "feminism" kickstarter projects in the past
hope it's fair, hope it's interesting, and i hope it goes well.
[QUOTE=SuddenImpact;40579896]If everything is formed by society, how do you explain the gender equality paradox in norway?[/QUOTE]
Of this is about the school, then you cannot have a truly equal school until society is just as equal. A completely equal school only works in a vacuum.
[QUOTE=Cone;40574138]i like how the first response to any kind of legit criticism of gaming from a woman is met with "[B]u care to much pls leave me nd my cheetos in peace[/B]"[/QUOTE]
And yet the response to that is being met with a generalizing insult. This is why these threads go to shit so quickly, from both sides. When dissenting opinions are met with insults rather than reasonable discussion and respect, neither side stands to learn anything. If anything, it just seems to create a stronger divide between the two groups.
At any rate, I'm in favor of this project though I'm really hoping they don't lean on tired topics that everyone knows about already. Give us some new angles on the issue as well as ways to improve and I'll be interested.
/Sigh. So is the title just half of "tits or gtfo" how clever. Anyway, I feel like they're wasting their money on this. They should broaden their audience to gays that are harassed in games etc. Its quite silly to even make a movie about this in the first place. We're all harassed in one way or another I'm pretty sure its called trolling. But when it has to do with a girl in the gaming industry being underpaid or mistreated that's a whole different story. Also, if a character has big tits and shit it's the artists' vision of a world with big tits. Don't fuck with it.
[QUOTE=Mechwarrior;40582525]/Sigh. So is the title just half of "tits or gtfo" how clever. Anyway, I feel like they're wasting their money on this. They should broaden their audience to gays that are harassed in games etc. Its quite silly to even make a movie about this in the first place. We're all harassed in one way or another I'm pretty sure its called trolling. But when it has to do with a girl in the gaming industry being underpaid or mistreated that's a whole different story. Also, if a character has big tits and shit it's the artists' vision of a world with big tits. Don't fuck with it.[/QUOTE]
Gays are harassed everywhere, sexism is a specific problem in gaming.
Also chalking all of the female characters with big tits and skimpy outfits up to being the "artist's vision" is bullshit. The problem is not that there's a lot of tits, it's that there's a disproportionate amount of female characters that are dumb sex objects.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40580107]What
[editline]9th May 2013[/editline]
Are you one of those people who argue that men prefer STEM because they're ~hardwired~ for it??[/QUOTE]
.... Because they ~are~.
Seriously, read my posts and maybe you don't need to guess about what I'm trying to convey.
We are reading your posts, and struggling. Also, that is not much of a valid argument: I am not telling you to read my posts, am I?
I still don't see what's so terrible about this?
We've barely seen anything from this movie other than it's subject matter and everyone's already acting like it's some unabashed attack against gaming and men in general. Fucking grow up and stop getting so defensive whenever this one topic comes up.
Save your judgments and stupid ramblings for when it's actually out. The fact that even the mention of something like this can get people so flustered already speaks volumes of this community.
[QUOTE=person11;40587211]We are reading your posts, and struggling. Also, that is not much of a valid argument: I am not telling you to read my posts, am I?[/QUOTE]
I'm not really talking to you about that, you do read my posts. it was Max's comment that I was referring to:
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40580107]
[b][u]Are you[/u] one of those people who argue[/b] that men prefer STEM because they're ~hardwired~ for it??[/QUOTE]
If he had read my posts he would know where I stand.
To me, this is just blowing hot air.
What do you expect to do with your cause? Force companies to moderate servers on their game to ensure nothing demeaning is said?
All they're doing is bringing awareness to a problem that can't be fixed with out restricting freedom of speech.
I don't know about the other stuff, but gender roles in the workforce affects everybody. It's not just about gaming.
There's actually more women with jobs than men, but just like women have strong majorities in some areas, men do have them in others (such as the games industry)
They're both so lop-sided that you can't just focus on one half and get something even.
[editline]10th May 2013[/editline]
And what's their goal with "trolling" awareness?
So stupid kids just call everybody faggots and not have separate words for girls?
[QUOTE=HGrunt;40570075]Being a gamer has nothing to do with the insults. It's just that there are enough desperate and lonely guys playing, so they *will* take a chance to flirt with or insult a girl, especially when being behind relative anonymity. This isn't rocket science.[/QUOTE]
you know what
you reveal the fact that you're a girl online like having a girl name as your nickname and a fucking picture of yourself as your avatar, you're a fucking exhibitionist. seriously. think about it. how many guys have a picture of themselves as an avatar or an even really gender specific nickname? gaming is completely asexual until you bring that entire girl thing to the table.
what i do think is fucked up however is when a normal girl who just wants to play a video game somehow gets a reputation for being a girl. they may have a non gender specific name and some art for their avatar but they use vent once and their nickname instantly means girl to everyone around them. then a pretty creepy vibe can come on with some people. and there are always those hopeless stranglers. also they pretty much gain instant popularity with everyone. i do feel that in situations where a girl can't help but reveal their gender it can get biased, like guilds and shit.
[editline]10th May 2013[/editline]
just for reference here's the 5 people looking at this thread
Meller Yeller,
deadoon,
sedarahC,
clukmastr9000,
jediken21
none of those names could be considered gender specific in the least just by looking at them without any context.
i've never really needed to use vent, in fact when ever i used it myself with a mic it was more of a hassle.
to quote Mr. Pink
"Learn to fuckin type"
least until more people on the internet are getting laid.
[QUOTE=NeoSeeker;40590895]you reveal the fact that you're a girl online like having a girl name as your nickname and a fucking picture of yourself as your avatar, you're a fucking exhibitionist. seriously. think about it. how many guys have a picture of themselves as an avatar or an even really gender specific nickname? gaming is completely asexual until you bring that entire girl thing to the table.[/QUOTE]
is this sarcasm or are you actually serious?
is that a useless reply or did you actually put thought into it?
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