• Yes All Men: Assassin’s Creed Bro-op Controversy Escalates
    552 replies, posted
[QUOTE=bdd458;45099330]I'm sorry, but if someone can only relate to something based on visuals, then I feel they're completely devoid of being able to have empathy (As defined by Merriam Webster: [I]the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this[/I]).[/QUOTE] did you read my post at all? [quote]but if someone can [B]only[/B] relate to something based on visuals[/quote] this is what it was about. people don't relate to stuff based solely on visuals, and people don't relate to stuff based on nothing but the writing. they go hand in hand, one is essential to the other, and both are necessary in order to create a believable universe with relatable characters.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;45099494]did you read my post at all? this is what it was about. people don't relate to stuff based solely on visuals, and people don't relate to stuff based on nothing but the writing. they go hand in hand, one is essential to the other, and both are necessary in order to create a believable universe with relatable characters.[/QUOTE] Then what's the point of books? There's no visuals there, yet people click easily with book characters (Paul Baumer, Gus and Hazel, etc...). So no, they don't go hand in hand. [editline]14th June 2014[/editline] You don't need both to create a blievable universe, you need good writing.
wow I would've thought feminists and women's rights activists would have more pressing issues than characters in an AC game, right?
[QUOTE=Cabbage;45102125]wow I would've thought feminists and women's rights activists would have more pressing issues than characters in an AC game, right?[/QUOTE] They do. It's just keyboard SJWs fussing over it.
[QUOTE=Cabbage;45102125]wow I would've thought feminists and women's rights activists would have more pressing issues than characters in an AC game, right?[/QUOTE] Implying you can only care about one thing at a time.
[QUOTE=halflife_123;45102524]Implying you can only care about one thing at a time.[/QUOTE] When you're fighting for equal rights that are actually important for women's lives all over the world, I think something so unbelievably trivial as a videogame character being a male or a female should stand on the very end of your to-do list. Specialy when it isn't a walk in the park. But that's the thing: when you ARE fighting, and not arguing on the internet about shit people either don't care about or just pretend to care to look like good righteous people. [sp]which this forum is FULL of[/sp]
actually AAA studios typically use mocap so animating a female character walking in a park, for example, probably is as easy as a walk in the park
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45102636]actually AAA studios typically use mocap so animating a female character walking in a park, for example, probably is as easy as a walk in the park[/QUOTE] Walking is hard though, especially in parks.
This thread could only get worse if the article was written by John Walker
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;45102621]When you're fighting for equal rights that are actually important for women's lives all over the world, I think something so unbelievably trivial as a videogame character being a male or a female should stand on the very end of your to-do list. Specialy when it isn't a walk in the park. But that's the thing: when you ARE fighting, and not arguing on the internet about shit people either don't care about or just pretend to care to look like good righteous people. [sp]which this forum is FULL of[/sp][/QUOTE] The thing is, people do care about this sort of thing... otherwise there wouldn't be a discussion about it. If you're going to decide that some things are 'real' issues and some aren't then I would have to disagree (and I also think that's a slippery slope). This stuff isn't just black and white. Sure there are bigger issues in the world but that doesn't mean it can't be brought up.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;45102277]They do. It's just keyboard SJWs fussing over it.[/QUOTE] there no hierarchy of problems to solve, what's so hard about this to understand? just because there are bigger issues for feminism to solve doesn't mean smaller issues aren't important or don't deserve attention. besides, what exactly is your idea of a bigger issue that needs to be solved that 'keyboard SJWs' SHOULD be focusing on? this is like asking why police bother to stop vandals spraypainting a building when there are unsolved murders to attend to.
[QUOTE=halflife_123;45102689]The thing is, people do care about this sort of thing... otherwise there wouldn't be a discussion about it. If you're going to decide that some things are 'real' issues and some aren't then I would have to disagree (and I also think that's a slippery slope). This stuff isn't just black and white. Sure there are bigger issues in the world but that doesn't mean it can't be brought up.[/QUOTE] If they cared, they'd do more than to tell other people they are wrong and just go back to whatever they were doing before.
[QUOTE=Hogie bear;45081066]lol fuck off. No one is entitled to put females in their game as much as they aren't entitled to put men in their game. Why is this "debate" even a thing. Also. Its a fucking videogame.[/QUOTE] Because if there's no women it clearly means all developers hate women look there's evidence as there's no main characters as women*. Damn misogynists. *That also aren't allowed to: Have significant breasts Have a significant ass Look sexy/pretty Wear revealing clothes
There's a middle ground between "I don't care at all" and "I am an activist regarding this issue", you know. [QUOTE=kill3r;45102790]Because if there's no women it clearly means all developers hate women look there's evidence as there's no main characters as women*. Damn misogynists. *That also aren't allowed to: Have significant breasts Have a significant ass Look sexy/pretty Wear revealing clothes[/QUOTE] Sexy seductress/femme fatale is a perfectly valid character archetype. The problem is games where most of the women characters have amazing bodies and revealing outfits for no particular reason. Bonus points when the character is also a fighter and has randomly exposed abdomen (aka vital organs).
itt nobody understands the development cycle
[QUOTE=Ylsid;45102810]itt nobody understands the development cycle[/QUOTE] Can't blame them. Even many developers don't understand it well enough to tell how long it actually takes to do stuff. For SJWs it doesn't even matter. It's about creating a controversy, no one cares if devs' reason for not doing it is good or not.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;45102720] this is like asking why police bother to stop vandals spraypainting a building when there are unsolved murders to attend to.[/QUOTE] Not really, it's more like asking police to force someone to change a book they're writing because you're not a fan of it while there are unsolved murders to attend to.
[QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45085073]some people are upset that they (as women or ppl of colour) don't get that 95% of the time why are you so upset about them wanting something for once[/QUOTE] I'm not upset about people wanting something. I'm more upset about the feeling of entitlement. It's Ubisoft's decision, and everyone's acting like it's their own personal call. I'm okay with asking for something, what bothers me is when it's demanded. People are calling them fucking assholes for not bending to their will. This is beyond the point of "Hey, us other ethnicities and gender(s) would like it if we could play as a character more representative of ourselves" and more into "You people are fucking cunts worse than Hitler. Go kill yourself you pieces of shit, why the fuck aren't you letting us be us? Sexist/Racist pigs." I understand that was a huge hyperbole and nobody (in the thread, at least) is telling them to blow their brains out, but I hope you get the idea.
They demand because they can hide behind feminism. Their target cannot defend themselves. Anything they say will be labeled misogynistic and them sexist pigs. Pretty much gives people a safecard to cause shitstorm and bully someone without any repercussions. People who do this care less about the cause and more about causing a controversy for the sake of one. [editline]14th June 2014[/editline] If you look, pretty much every new AAA game gets hit with some form of controversy. FC4 was hit hard for their villain's cover art and later for main character being white(even though he's asian). People are just looking for anything to cause shit and equality movement offers the perfect way to stir some.
[QUOTE=Mr.95;45102923]Not really, it's more like asking police to force someone to change a book they're writing because you're not a fan of it while there are unsolved murders to attend to.[/QUOTE] what the hell no it's not. i'm not even sure how you could begin to make that argument but ok?? congrats? [editline]14th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=gk99;45102928]I'm not upset about people wanting something. I'm more upset about the feeling of entitlement. It's Ubisoft's decision, and everyone's acting like it's their own personal call. I'm okay with asking for something, what bothers me is when it's demanded. People are calling them fucking assholes for not bending to their will. This is beyond the point of "Hey, us other ethnicities and gender(s) would like it if we could play as a character more representative of ourselves" and more into "You people are fucking cunts worse than Hitler. Go kill yourself you pieces of shit, why the fuck aren't you letting us be us? Sexist/Racist pigs." I understand that was a huge hyperbole and nobody (in the thread, at least) is telling them to blow their brains out, but I hope you get the idea.[/QUOTE] "i know no one is saying these things, but i'm upset about people saying these things anyways" ??? [editline]14th June 2014[/editline] again, i'm not sure what people don't understand about this situation. ubisoft is totally allowed to make all the games it wants with all-white, all-male casts. no one is saying they can't. but we're allowed to keep complaining about it until ubisoft changes their minds on the issue. it's not 'entitlement' to want to have representation in popular media. entitlement is being a white male, having literally hundreds/thousands of games starring white males, and then immediately going on the defensive when people start demanding representation of their own groups in games. [editline]14th June 2014[/editline] oh and here's another thing i don't think people get: we understand that at this point, ubisoft probably couldn't have gone back and added female protagonists in. the game is already heavily in development. what they SHOULD have done is apologized for the oversight and promised to explore minority representation in future titles. (coincidentally, consider the situation with Tomodachi Life when people were annoyed that nintendo failed to include gay marriage. after some unsatisfactory comments by nintendo, they finally turned around and apologized for the mistake while promising to pursue inclusion of the feature in future iterations. that's what we're looking for.) and guess what, we absolutely get to think ubisoft are assholes for not 'bending to our will,' because they are. again, if you're a white male surrounded by white male protagonists you simply do not understand what a lack of representation feels like and you are in no position to comment on the severity of the issue.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;45103161]what the hell no it's not. i'm not even sure how you could begin to make that argument but ok?? congrats? [/QUOTE] Yes it is though, graffiti is defacing something someone else has made, and is a crime. As similarly mentioned earlier in the thread this is something the developers and publishers are making and producing, they're not defacing something someone has already constructed. Also if we're going to resort to the multiple ?????'s to emphasize your befuddlement then I guess your capacity to take the conversation seriously is hitting it's peak. I mean you're the person who claimed misandry didn't exist in a thread explicitly about how misandry almost falsely imprisoned a man, so I'm not even sure how seriously you take your arguments in the first place, it all just seems like bait. [QUOTE=Jackald;45103360]Strong woman = man with boobs, male dominatrix fantasy Weak woman = oppressive damsel for males to enact power fantay Strong man = for men to play a power fantasy Weak man = acceptable. Tumblr's version of feminism, ladies and gentlemen.[/QUOTE] There is no pleasing them when it comes to this, mainly because nobody on the internet will admit defeat in their arguments
They didn't want a women assassin in co-op for their own reason. There we go that's all there is too it.
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;45103636]They didn't want a women assassin in co-op for their own reason. There we go that's all there is too it.[/QUOTE] So, does this mean that people shouldn't criticize that decision?
[QUOTE=Valnar;45103655]So, does this mean that people shouldn't criticize that decision?[/QUOTE] I don't think they shouldn't, but so far it doesn't seem to me that people are considering the reason behind it. They're dumping their anger on Ubi even though the absence of female character isn't really due to a lack of will, but rather to a lack of means.
[QUOTE=_Axel;45103728]I don't think they shouldn't, but so far it doesn't seem to me that people are considering the reason behind it. They're dumping their anger on Ubi even though the absence of female character isn't really due to a lack of will, but rather to a lack of means.[/QUOTE] But its not a lack of means, Ubisoft made a business decision to exclude a female character because they decided that having a female character was not worth the development time compared to other things. People are criticizing that business decision.
[QUOTE=Valnar;45103777]But its not a lack of means, Ubisoft made a business decision to exclude a female character because they decided that having a female character was not worth the development time compared to other things. People are criticizing that business decision.[/QUOTE] Do you know what the "other things" are? Unless you do you can't judge accurately on the sensibility of that decision.
[QUOTE=Valnar;45103777]But its not a lack of means, Ubisoft made a business decision to exclude a female character because they decided that having a female character was not worth the development time compared to other things. People are criticizing that business decision.[/QUOTE] There was an assassin women who was famous in france. She only got 1 kill in before they cut her head off and you don't want to know what happened to her body.
[QUOTE=_Axel;45103798]Do you know what the "other things" are? Unless you do you can't judge accurately on the sensibility of that decision.[/QUOTE] Other things as in all of the possible things they can include in the game that at the time they valued more than including a female character. No I don't know what all the other things are, I obviously can't. My point wasn't that I was saying that I know of specific things they could have left out to include a female character. My point was at the time of development, Ubisoft made a business decision that including a female playable character was not worthwhile, not because they had the lack of means to do so. Now as a direct consequence of that business decision there are these criticisms now.
[QUOTE=Valnar;45103875]Other things as in all of the possible things they can include in the game that at the time they valued more than including a female character. No I don't know what all the other things are, I obviously can't. My point wasn't that I was saying that I know of specific things they could have left out to include a female character. My point was at the time of development, Ubisoft made a business decision that including a female playable character was not worthwhile, not because they had the lack of means to do so. Now as a direct consequence of that business decision there are these criticisms now.[/QUOTE] Fair point. I could argue that there's no way of changing their past investments now they spent their resources on it, but criticism could actually lead to better resource management from them in the future. That being said, I don't agree with the sentiment that including a female character is that important compared to other features, but I respect your opinion on the matter. One thing I don't understand, though, is why Ubi is getting so much flak about it even though they're far from being the only offender. I mean, everyone acts like the presence of a female character is a due, even though it's far from being the norm. If it's really an issue, why gang up on that particular game and not take the debate to a larger scale?
[QUOTE=_Axel;45103965]Fair point. I could argue that there's no way of changing their past investments now they spent their resources on it, but criticism could actually lead to better resource management from them in the future. That being said, I don't agree with the sentiment that including a female character is that important compared to other features, but I respect your opinion on the matter. One thing I don't understand, though, is why Ubi is getting so much flak about it even though they're far from being the only offender. I mean, everyone acts like the presence of a female character is a due, even though it's far from being the norm. If it's really an issue, why gang up on that particular game and not take the debate to a larger scale?[/QUOTE] I think Ubi are getting flak in this case because they presented a co-op game with 4 characters that are pretty much identical. Like one of those characters could have been female, or a different ethnicity or something. The debate is larger than this game but Ubi are just at the forefront of the issue right now I guess.
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