Yes All Men: Assassin’s Creed Bro-op Controversy Escalates
552 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Cmx;45081213]But that is what is happening here, better add females or you are going to start a [B]controversy[/B]
Thats practically making it a requirement.[/QUOTE]no, what's happening here is that ubisoft presented a bullshit excuse as to why they weren't adding a female character and that caused a controversy
[QUOTE=Combineguy;45081223]their excuse doesn't make any sense and other ubisoft employees have come out and said that it's bullshit that it's too much effort to put in female characters. it doesn't matter how many female characters (and a much lesser number of those are protagonists) they have in their other games, people obviously want more female characters and they presented a poor excuse as to why they couldn't do that.[/QUOTE]
I never said they were right about it, because they aren't and they've explained themselves poorly, it's still an overreaction from most of the media though.
[QUOTE=Clavus;45081230]No it doesn't? The controversy is because they fanned the flames with lame excuses, which several industry professionals called them out on.[/QUOTE]
But why did people pick on this game in particular for not having female protaganists instead of practically every other game at E3 that didn't have female protaganists? What I want to know is what makes Assassin's Creed the one people suddenly debate about.
[QUOTE=Cmx;45081213]But that is what is happening here, better add females or you are going to start a [B]controversy[/B]
Thats practically making it a requirement.[/QUOTE]
Why shouldn't it be a requirement? Their "it's too much work" excuse is obviously bullshit, they're not bothering to include playable female characters because of some fucked up "video games are for boys" mentality. Defending them just validates that attitude.
[editline]12th June 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45081245]But why did people pick on this game in particular for not having female protaganists instead of practically every other game at E3 that didn't have female protaganists? What I want to know is what makes Assassin's Creed the one people suddenly debate about.[/QUOTE]
Because the the inclusion of female characters in this game should be particularly obvious for this game and the devs' excuse is particularly bad.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45081245]But why did people pick on this game in particular for not having female protaganists instead of practically every other game at E3 that didn't have female protaganists? What I want to know is what makes Assassin's Creed the one people suddenly debate about.[/QUOTE]because they made a poor excuse and everybody is calling them out on their bullshit
[QUOTE=chills2;45081238]I never said they were right about it, because they aren't and they've explained themselves poorly, it's still an overreaction from most of the media though.[/QUOTE]
Why do people have to go around saying it's an overreaction? If Uplay shits itself on launch day, nobody will go into one of the news articles on it and say "oh you guys are just overreacting". Because everyone can relate.
Stop going into these threads just to say "why does everyone care so much". Because they obviously do. You're not presenting an argument.
[QUOTE=Combineguy;45081260]because they made a poor excuse and everybody is calling them out on their bullshit[/QUOTE]
Yeah but that implies that there's a pack of people going around asking every single dev "Why is your main character not female?" and they only caught out Ubisoft this one time by chance, as if when they pressed the other devs they had good excuses.
[QUOTE=Clavus;45081262]Why do people have to go around saying it's an overreaction? If Uplay shits itself on launch day, nobody will go into one of the news articles on it and say "oh you guys are just overreacting". Because everyone can relate.
Stop going into these threads just to say "why does everyone care so much". Because they obviously do. You're not presenting an argument.[/QUOTE]"I'm a gamer and discussing sexism offends my delicate sensibilities. Don't take video games so seriously, thanks"
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45081278]Yeah but that implies that there's a pack of people going around asking every single dev "Why is your main character not female?" and they only caught out Ubisoft this one time by chance, as if when they pressed the other devs they had good excuses.[/QUOTE]
Do you honestly think that identical levels of media scrutiny have be placed on every game for every audience from every genre in order to critique any one game? Why can't you just let people be bothered by this obvious bullshit instead of coming up with weird technicalities to defend ubisoft?
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45081311]Do you honestly think that identical levels of media scrutiny have be placed on every game for every audience from every genre in order to critique any one game? Why can't you just let people be bothered by this obvious bullshit instead of coming up with weird technicalities to defend ubisoft?[/QUOTE]because you're just taking video games [i]too seriously[/i]
people seem to want video games to be considered art but god forbid you actually try to artistically critique them in any way
[QUOTE=Combineguy;45081326]because you're just taking video games [i]too seriously[/i][/QUOTE]
He's not saying that at all??
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45081278]Yeah but that implies that there's a pack of people going around asking every single dev "Why is your main character not female?" and they only caught out Ubisoft this one time by chance, as if when they pressed the other devs they had good excuses.[/QUOTE]
its not that this game was picked by random chance. some of the game's era's best killers we're females. so it was asked "why no female assassin?" and ubisoft came up with these really stupid excuses like "modeling a female assassin is hard" and "its just a reality of game development" yet they could make probably 8-12 random female NPC's just fine, probably more. for a game that tries to "respect history" it's not doing it very well.
they're acting like a kid caught in a bad lie/in trouble instead of acting like a company. that's where the controversy is.
[editline]12th June 2014[/editline]
if someone had asked "why no <period era gun/weapon/style of clothing whatever>" and they came up with the "cus its hard :((" excuse they'd still get called out on it. has nothing to do with it being women assassin and everything to do ubisoft being babies about having to [I]do their job[/I]
[QUOTE=mchapra;45081340]He's not saying that at all??[/QUOTE]
Combineguy is being sarcastic.
[QUOTE=mchapra;45081340]He's not saying that at all??[/QUOTE]believe it or not, there are people who think that's a legitimate argument. i was being sarcastic
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45081311]Do you honestly think that identical levels of media scrutiny have be placed on every game for every audience from every genre in order to critique any one game? Why can't you just let people be bothered by this obvious bullshit instead of coming up with weird technicalities to defend ubisoft?[/QUOTE]
Let's take a step back. There are dozens of games at E3 with male protaganists that absolutely nobody is criticizing. Before Ubisoft ever made these inane excuses, people were already annoyed with the fact that the protaganists were male which obviously lead to these events unfolding. What I want to know is what Ubisoft's crime was to provoke this or, to perhaps be more precise, what the other devs did right.
[editline]12th June 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Paige;45081341]its not that this game was picked by random chance. some of the game's era's best killers we're females. so it was asked "why no female assassin?" and ubisoft came up with these really stupid excuses like "modeling a female assassin is hard" and "its just a reality of game development" yet they could make probably 8-12 random female NPC's just fine, probably more. for a game that tries to "respect history" it's not doing it very well.
they're acting like a kid caught in a bad lie/in trouble instead of acting like a company. that's where the controversy is.
[editline]12th June 2014[/editline]
if someone had asked "why no <period era gun/weapon/style of clothing whatever>" and they came up with the "cus its hard :((" excuse they'd still get called out on it. has nothing to do with it being women assassin and everything to do ubisoft being babies about having to [I]do their job[/I][/QUOTE]
This is all I wanted.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45081363]Let's take a step back. There are dozens of games at E3 with male protagonists that absolutely nobody is criticizing. Before Ubisoft ever made these inane excuses, people were already annoyed with the fact that the protagonists were male which obviously lead to these events unfolding. What I want to know is what Ubisoft's crime was to provoke this or, to perhaps be more precise, what the other devs did right.[/QUOTE]somebody asked ubisoft about this game in particular and they came up with a bad excuse. i also mentioned earlier in the thread that there was at least one female assassin that was historically important to the game's time period. that's why they're getting so much flak. i guarantee you other people probably asked about other games too, but the devs probably didn't say something stupid so you didn't hear about it
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45081363]Let's take a step back. There are dozens of games at E3 with male protaganists that absolutely nobody is criticizing. Before Ubisoft ever made these inane excuses, people were already annoyed with the fact that the protaganists were male which obviously lead to these events unfolding. What I want to know is what Ubisoft's crime was to provoke this or, to perhaps be more precise, what the other devs did right.
[editline]12th June 2014[/editline]
This is all I wanted.[/QUOTE]
It's not a crime. There were plenty of comments on other games that went "*sigh*, well they didn't bother". But Assassins Creed Unity had coop. Pretty much every other coop / team game on E3 (like Evolve etc) had at least one female character as part of the cast. Ubisoft had a female assassin in their past title AC Liberation so normally they at least put some effort into it. And then they came up with a bullshit excuse when questioned about it, which snowballed.
That's the explanation.
[QUOTE=Combineguy;45081374] i guarantee you other people probably asked about other games too, but the devs probably didn't say something stupid so you didn't hear about it[/QUOTE]
knew it
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45081391]knew it[/QUOTE]
It's good to target Ubisoft for this though, it's not like everyone's being unfair to them. If a large studio like theirs is being questioned about this on such a scale, the rest of the game industry will listen too.
The message is simple: the next time you're in a character design meeting, make an effort to be more inclusive.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;45081391]knew it[/QUOTE]you should probably keep in mind that other devs posed with a similar question probably handled it respectfully instead of making up a bullshit excuse before you or somebody else use this to call everyone criticizing ubisoft hypocrites
Also so you guys don't get the wrong idea, I wasn't asking "Why does anybody care about this bullshit?" I was legitimately curious: "what exactly transpired this time to make this instance a special case?" I'm not trying to be anti-feminism here. These things don't just happen for no reason.
[QUOTE=Clavus;45081262]Why do people have to go around saying it's an overreaction? If Uplay shits itself on launch day, nobody will go into one of the news articles on it and say "oh you guys are just overreacting". Because everyone can relate.
Stop going into these threads just to say "why does everyone care so much". Because they obviously do. You're not presenting an argument.[/QUOTE]
Because it fucking is. It definitely is an issue there's no doubt about and UbiSoft have thrown themselves under a bus, but so many sites have posted 2 or 3 articles about it in the last day in order to gain more clicks, and it's completely unnecessary when so many are talking about it anyway. People are right to call Ubi out on their bullshit but the media is making it a circus. Uplay shitting itself on a launch day is a different thing entirely than this and I have no idea why you used it as an example. And honestly you can't really stop me coming into these threads and stating my opinion that I think the media is overreacting, so suck it up.
[QUOTE=chills2;45081410]so many sites have posted 2 or 3 articles about it in the last day in order to gain more clicks, and it's completely unnecessary when so many are talking about it anyway.[/QUOTE]wow fuck it's almost like they're reporting on something people care about
[QUOTE=chills2;45081410]Because it fucking is. It definitely is an issue there's no doubt about and UbiSoft have thrown themselves under a bus, but so many sites have posted 2 or 3 articles about it in the last day in order to gain more clicks, and it's completely unnecessary when so many are talking about it anyway. People are right to call Ubi out on their bullshit but the media is making it a circus. Uplay shitting itself on a launch day is a different thing entirely than this and I have no idea why you used it as an example. And honestly you can't really stop me coming into these threads and stating my opinion that I think the media is overreacting, so suck it up.[/QUOTE]
I won't stop you. Still think it's stupid.
[QUOTE=Combineguy;45081416]wow fuck it's almost like they're reporting on something people care about[/QUOTE]
With fuck all new information..... that's what I'm getting at, I'm not saying they shouldn't be reporting on it.
[QUOTE=chills2;45081437]With fuck all new information..... that's what I'm getting at, I'm not saying they shouldn't be reporting on it.[/QUOTE]RPS has posted two articles about this, and this one has new information compared to the other one.
Other than the new quote I don't think there's much of use, it's the same with PCGamesN. But this is becoming a pointless argument so I'm not going to continue it. I may have lumped PCGamer's article(s) in with RPS since so many PCG alumni work on it though so that's my bad.
[QUOTE=Clavus;45081403]It's good to target Ubisoft for this though, it's not like everyone's being unfair to them. If a large studio like theirs is being questioned about this on such a scale, the rest of the game industry will listen too.
The message is simple: the next time you're in a character design meeting, make an effort to be more inclusive.[/QUOTE]
No I agree, Ubi Montreal has been dropping the ball left and right lately and they deserve every ounce of criticism leveled at them.
The first time I heard about all male characters my first thought was, "No female assassin? In France?"
I don't understand how Ubisoft thought they could not include a female character in this setting and then give a shit explanation for it. It's like they asked for this... like they think that... all publicity is good publicity...
See I'm not well read up on my French assassins so I literally had no idea.
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