• Yes All Men: Assassin’s Creed Bro-op Controversy Escalates
    552 replies, posted
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;45083442]I could somewhat see the voiceover, narrative, and model excuse, but not the animation scapegoat. The AAA industry uses mocap.[/QUOTE] The voice excuse doesn't hold much water when properly gendered voice responses (i.e. "after her" instead of "after him") doesn't require complex scripting and only an additional take in voice acting. For models: they could have made two women instead of two men and it would have taken the same time. Maybe add a few days for a few artists to add hair dynamics if they want dynamic hair or whatever. For narrative: pretty much one of the weakest excuses considering the French Revolution being one of the most egalitarian protests, and the fact that it's a fictional take on it anyway. Basically, any technical/resources argument doesn't hold any water, even less so when you know Ubisoft has literally thousands of developers in their employ.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45083333]I'm going to straight up skip the arguments for better diversity in games and jump to something I think you can understand: Surely I can't be the only one who is bored of seeing the same exact template of a character everywhere? You know what I mean, white, 20 to 30 years old, subtle/medium stubble, medium build/physique, dark brown hair (either straight or shaggy), same basic voice/timbre... Social criticism belongs in all mediums and is an important intellectual discussion that should be had. It's not about politics. [/QUOTE] Social criticism does belong in all mediums, but it doesnt need to belong every time, or even apply, dont see splatoon making many strides with social criticism but it looks like a really amazing and fun game. Plus you must not look hard at all if you keep running into " white, 20 to 30 years old, subtle/medium stubble, medium build/physique, dark brown hair (either straight or shaggy), same basic voice/timbre..." Why not look for games that arent those instead of complaining about it all the time? I see you complain about this shit all the time yet I never have a problem finding great games that dont have a MC like that, or anyone really like that. I mean if you are looking for a fresh, diverse, well written game thats filled with social criticism and shit why not try out something like Persona 3/4 or MGS2 if you havent played it, since it was pretty much designed to fool the players expectations among other things, like replacing that white 20/30 year old gruff badass(Snake) to some not as badass feminine pretty boy.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45083333] Surely I can't be the only one who is bored of seeing the same exact template of a character everywhere? You know what I mean, white, 20 to 30 years old, subtle/medium stubble, medium build/physique, dark brown hair (either straight or shaggy), same basic voice/timbre... [/QUOTE] It's only boring if they do a shitty job characterizing him. You're kind of judging a character entirely by how they look, don't you see a problem with this?
[QUOTE=Lordgeorge16;45083381]Gonna go off-topic for a minute here and say this is the one thing that's bugged me in every Assassin's Creed since 1. A dude wearing (most of the time) white, long robes with a face-obscuring hood, leather and metal abdominal plating, and toting numerous weapons on their belts and backs shouldn't be trying to blend in with a crowd of regular, unarmed people in the first place. It's baffling that guards weren't constantly on high alert with the knowledge that a murderer was loose in the streets, even if there weren't any posters up or heralds warning people about it. It's baffling that they couldn't spot the shady looking hooded guy who clearly stuck out like a sore thumb when surrounded by normal citizens. Blending only worked logically in AC1 because Altair could only hide with monks who were dressed in long, white robes similar to his own, and there was no way to decrease his notoriety so guards later in the game were always searching for him. Every MC after the first game should've kept their regular civilian clothes and used nothing but the hidden blade to kill, a concealed dagger in a boot or up a sleeve for fending off guards, and some lightweight leather or chainmail armor under their clothes so they wouldn't be killed in just one hit.[/QUOTE] Agreed. I mean, [url=http://cnt.likealaugh.org/132trololol/20130423-003056-132-182.jpg]this[/url] is pretty much what the guards see when you're "blending in". Even better was in AC2 when you attend the Venice festival and become completely anonymous by putting on a mask. Not even willing suspension of disbelief could help me with that one.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;45083615]You're kind of judging a character entirely by how they look, don't you see a problem with this?[/QUOTE] No, I'm judging the character template used by the vast majority of AAA games
[QUOTE=Cmx;45081142]Thing is if you portray a killer, bank robber,or anything illegal as a black man or hispanic lady you are going to get flack for racism or sexism. The only safe route is to make everything white males, but then you get the argument you just made. It really is a lose lose. No matter what is done someone will bitch about something. That being said I would enjoy more playable females in games, though I don't believe developers should be required to add them, just like I wouldn't mind an all female cast with no requirement to add males.[/QUOTE] or you know you can actually make them believable characters that arent set on stupid tropes instead
If ubisoft wanted a female character in the co-op, they would of done it already and this dumb bullshit discussion would never happened. They made a cool female assassin in Liberation because that was their creative freedom to do so. they decided not to have a female assassin in unity because it's their creative freedom to do so. get over it. I prefer to play female characters but im not going to bitch about it if someone doesn't do it due to their artistic expression. Ubi also had a dumb reason, just say "we didn't make a female character because we didn't want to." Intelligent people wouldn't get offended by that.
[QUOTE=Wii60;45083731]If ubisoft wanted a female character in the co-op, they would of done it already and this dumb bullshit discussion would never happened. They made a cool female assassin in Liberation because that was their creative freedom to do so. they decided not to have a female assassin in unity because it's their creative freedom to do so. get over it. I prefer to play female characters but im not going to bitch about it if someone doesn't do it due to their artistic expression. Ubi also had a dumb reason, just say "we didn't make a female character because we didn't want to"[/QUOTE] yes, it is ubisoft's prerogative to not include any representation of women. and it is our prerogative to complain as loudly and obnoxiously as we so desire about the lack of representation. whether or not you or anyone else agrees is irrelevant. you're allowed to disagree. we're allowed to complain.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45083662]No, I'm judging the character template used by the vast majority of AAA games[/QUOTE] So you're saying a game would instantly become better if they kept the same quality of characterization, but made the white guy into some shade of brown?
[QUOTE=Wii60;45083731]If ubisoft wanted a female character in the co-op, they would of done it already and this dumb bullshit discussion would never happened. They made a cool female assassin in Liberation because that was their creative freedom to do so. they decided not to have a female assassin in unity because it's their creative freedom to do so. get over it. I prefer to play female characters but im not going to bitch about it if someone doesn't do it due to their artistic expression. Ubi also had a dumb reason, just say "we didn't make a female character because we didn't want to." Intelligent people wouldn't get offended by that.[/QUOTE] [B]woah buddy its like theres something miraculous called [I]free speech[/I][/B] [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Canuhearme?;45083823]So you're saying a game would instantly become better if they kept the same quality of characterization, but made the white guy into some shade of brown?[/QUOTE] no were saying itd be great if they werent making the same old tired troped characters and put some variety in there
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;45083823]So you're saying a game would instantly become better if they kept the same quality of characterization, but made the white guy into some shade of brown?[/QUOTE] Why are you asking? He blatantly stated that when he said he was tired of white males in their 20s/30s being the main character.
[QUOTE=BLUcody;45083827][B] no were saying itd be great if they werent making the same old tired troped characters and put some variety in there[/QUOTE] I'd argue variety has less to do with what they have dangling between their legs or the color of their skin, and more with how the character is portrayed and developed over the course of a game. You're straight up saying you'd think everything is right in the world if they turned Generic Military Dude into Generic Military Girl, or gave them some shade of brown skin.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;45083868]I'd argue variety has less to do with what they have dangling between their legs or the color of their skin, and more with how the character is portrayed and developed over the course of a game.[/QUOTE] id be less likely to relate with a white protagonist because he doesnt share the same struggles as my race, for example, he can have all the problems he has but he wasnt discriminated based on the grounds of his race as often as i have.
[QUOTE=BLUcody;45083878]id be less likely to relate with a white protagonist because he doesnt share the same struggles as my race, for example, he can have all the problems he has but he wasnt discriminated based on the grounds of his race as often as i have.[/QUOTE] Since you're outright telling me that the race of a character = how much you can "click" with them, doesn't that mean making them non-white will alienate all of the white players? Or that taking a completely boring and otherwise generic White Fighter Dude and turning him into Non-White Fighter Dude will make the character fresh, interesting and dynamic?
People are actually having a debate about all this ? For fucks sake. Far Cry 3 had a 4-player coop mode, one of the characters is female. Assassin's Creed: Liberation has a female protagonist. Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag doesn't have a female protagonist, but it has James Kidd. There. These are all game by Ubisoft that had female characters, playable or not. Now shut the fuck up about this utter lack of an issue already.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;45083935]Since you're outright telling me that the race of a character = how much you can "click" with them, doesn't that mean making them non-white will alienate all of the white players?[/QUOTE] literally 90% of game protagonists are already white i dont think one character that deviates from that overused trite archetype will hurt them
[QUOTE=BLUcody;45083957]literally 90% of game protagonists are already white i dont think one character that deviates from that overused trite archetype will hurt them[/QUOTE] So taking a completely boring and otherwise generic White Fighter Dude and turning him into Non-White Fighter Dude will make the character fresh, interesting and dynamic?
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;45083979]So taking a completely boring and otherwise generic White Fighter Dude and turning him into Non-White Fighter Dude will make the character fresh, interesting and dynamic?[/QUOTE] what the hell are you talking about, no one is saying this
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;45083979]So taking a completely boring and otherwise generic White Fighter Dude and turning him into Non-White Fighter Dude will make the character fresh, interesting and dynamic?[/QUOTE] youre missing the point here. youre acting like race is just the color of a person where it extends [I]far[/I] beyond that, to what theyre likely to believe in, their values, how they view the world and things, etc etc. so yes. it gives new dynamics (like a races culture) for characterization.
Guiiiise stop complaining about something you think is a problem! I don't care if it would fit the story! I just want to get all snuggly in generic shooter guy's pecks
I feel more black men should be main characters as long as they come with that smooth african-american accent many have. That would be awesome to play as in AC.
[QUOTE=postmanX3;45083992]what the hell are you talking about, no one is saying this[/QUOTE] Then why are some people arguing that changing the color of a bland, generic character will suddenly make everything better? Shouldn't we be more concerned with the shitty plots and cookie-cutter characters than what skin color they happen to have? [QUOTE=BLUcody;45084016]youre missing the point here. youre acting like race is just the color of a person where it extends [I]far[/I] beyond that, to what theyre likely to believe in, their values, how they view the world and things, etc etc. so yes. it gives new dynamics (like a races culture) for characterization.[/QUOTE] Ah, so you're judging people by the color of their skin, rather than the content of their character. Good to see where you stand.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45083949] Now shut the fuck up[/QUOTE] No go away.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;45084104]Then why are some people arguing that changing the color of a bland, generic character will suddenly make everything better? Shouldn't we be more concerned with the shitty plots and cookie-cutter characters than what skin color they happen to have? Ah, so you're judging people by the color of their skin, rather than the content of their character. Good to see where you stand.[/QUOTE] i literally never said that. i said itll give new dynamics to a person, and theres already little to variety. this literally harms no one. im done talking to you
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;45084104]Ah, so you're judging people by the color of their skin, rather than the content of their character. Good to see where you stand.[/QUOTE] What in the fuck world do you live in that race doesn't change anything in the slightest bit?
"waaah i can't play my video game because there's no girl character boohoohoo" People will seriously find the most minute shit to complain about in just about everything nowadays, especially in video games. It's almost as bad as the people who complained about Tomodachi Life's lack of gay relationships, or Watch_Dogs' ability to kill non-white characters. [I]They're just video games, people. Get a fucking life.[/I]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45083949]People are actually having a debate about all this ? For fucks sake. Now shut the fuck up about this utter lack of an issue already.[/QUOTE] Thanks for telling us so kindly what we are allowed to complain about or not :~) [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;45084165][I]They're just video games, people. Get a fucking life.[/I][/QUOTE] Video games are an industry bigger than movies.
[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;45084165]"waaah i can't play my video game because there's no girl character boohoohoo" People will seriously find the most minute shit to complain about in just about everything nowadays, especially in video games. It's almost as bad as the people who complained about Tomodachi Life's lack of gay relationships, or Watch_Dogs' ability to kill non-white characters. [I]They're just video games, people. Get a fucking life.[/I][/QUOTE] says the person it doesnt even affect lmfao
[QUOTE=Lijitsu;45084160]What in the fuck world do you live in that race doesn't change anything in the slightest bit?[/QUOTE] Why would race have to change anything in an imaginary video game though? You have to create that conflict, it doesnt just happen like it does in real life. So now do you want your game have to racial issues involved because of your characters race?
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45084174]Video games are an industry bigger than movies.[/QUOTE] No it's not. Please tell me how video games are a bigger industry than movies when for one big budget game that comes out, there's five big budget movies (with a budget that exceeds AAA titles by several millions) released at the same time.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.