Yes All Men: Assassin’s Creed Bro-op Controversy Escalates
552 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45084197]Why would race have to change anything in an imaginary video game though?
You have to create that conflict, it doesnt just happen like it does in real life. So now do you want your game have to racial issues involved because of your characters race?[/QUOTE]
woah..its as if video games can put a spot light of hot issues and show how problematic they are AND allow people entertainment at the same time..
Ok I was happy to poke fun harmlessly but are you just trolling now? He said that race would be a good way to characterize someone, which it fucking is.
When we played Lee in the Walking Dead, him being black is a great way to set up how he interacts with other people, his family history and culture make him a deeper, more believable person. His dad used to "whoop" shoplifters with his cane, I still remember that part and haven't played the game since it came out.
I can't think of anything about the generic white guys that sets them apart.
No one is saying characters HAVE to be black, we're just saying if 99% of characters are white, you are missing opportunities to tell a story from a different, more interesting perspective.
Do you like Kraft dinner? Would you eat only that for the rest of your life? Variety is what we want, not to slowly breed your white master race into a brownish yellow extinction...
or do we?
[QUOTE=BLUcody;45084182]says the person it doesnt even affect lmfao[/QUOTE]
Actually it doesnt affect anyone, because its not some political agenda or has any affect in real life in the slightest. Its a passing video game, shitloads come out everyday, ones far more offensive and this shit.
Its a video game you have the choice of playing and buying, or even following. So instead of wasting breath on a company like Ubisoft, why not try and find video games and companies that do the type of things you like?
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45084226]Actually it doesnt affect anyone, because its not some political agenda or has any affect in real life in the slightest. Its a passing video game, shitloads come out everyday, ones far more offensive and this shit.
Its a video game you have the choice of playing and buying, or even following. So instead of wasting breath on a company like Ubisoft, why not try and find video games and companies that do the type of things you like?[/QUOTE]
because theres only very little companies that do that and its very disheartening. it shouldnt be a minority of companies.
also, it does affect people. video games are another form of media and if youre saying media doesnt affect people then oh jeez youre wrong
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45084210]No it's not.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/6852383/Video-games-bigger-than-film.html[/url]
This is from 2009.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45084226]Actually it doesnt affect anyone, because its not some political agenda or has any affect in real life in the slightest. Its a passing video game, shitloads come out everyday, ones far more offensive and this shit.
Its a video game you have the choice of playing and buying, or even following. So instead of wasting breath on a company like Ubisoft, why not try and find video games and companies that do the type of things you like?[/QUOTE]
Oh wow I wish this was the other thread, I made a post specifically for this "argument." Hold on, let me go get it. You can ignore the 'by affecting the story' part:
[QUOTE=Lijitsu;45072832]By affecting the story? Besides that, games aren't 100% self-contained. Like any artistic medium, they reflect and affect the culture they're created in. Refusing to have equal representation - and that's what this is, not due to any BS 'lack of time' - can hurt the culture the game is created in. Even if it was just laziness and not refusal, that falls into the bystander effect. At that point you're essentially making the situation worse by not trying to make it better.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45084265][url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/6852383/Video-games-bigger-than-film.html[/url]
This is from 2009.[/QUOTE]
That's in Britain, not in the entire world.
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;45084225]No one is saying characters HAVE to be black, we're just saying if 99% of characters are white, you are missing opportunities to tell a story from a different, more interesting perspective.
Do you like Kraft dinner? Would you eat only that for the rest of your life? Variety is what we want, not to slowly breed your white master race into a brownish yellow extinction...[/QUOTE]
I think this post makes an incredibly important point. Like, I am perfectly happy to play as a white macho guy, but that doesn't mean I want to be them in every game ever.
[QUOTE=NiandraLades;45084312]I think this post makes an incredibly important point. Like, I am perfectly happy to play as a white macho guy, but that doesn't mean I want to be them in every game ever.[/QUOTE]
Have these co-op characters been revealed as story characters yet, or are they just anonymous assistants? If it's the latter, I don't think it really matters because they won't be adding anything to the story.
[QUOTE=BLUcody;45084182]says the person it doesnt even affect lmfao[/QUOTE]
That was a dumb mistake on my part.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45084289]That's in Britain, not in the entire world.[/QUOTE]
Fine.
Music industry: $30 to $40 billion [URL="http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/print.html"]globally[/URL]
Movie industry: $27 billion [URL="http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/06/2181568.htm"]globally[/URL]
Book industry: $35.69 billion ([URL="http://www.bisg.org/news/press.php?pressid=42"]US 2007[/URL]) and roughly $63 billion globally (Euromonitor Intl.)
Video game industry: $22 billion in 2008 in the US, [URL="http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=356585"]over $50 billion globally[/URL] in 2008. And by 2015, analysts predict the global video game industry will reach [URL="http://www.vg247.com/2009/06/23/global-industry-analysts-predicts-gaming-market-to-reach-91-billion-by-2015/"]$91 billion[/URL].
The video game industry is outgrowing basically every other media sector.
So "it's just a fucking video game" is a childish baseless argument.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45083949]People are actually having a debate about all this ?
For fucks sake.
Far Cry 3 had a 4-player coop mode, one of the characters is female.
Assassin's Creed: Liberation has a female protagonist.
Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag doesn't have a female protagonist, but it has James Kidd.
There. These are all game by Ubisoft that had female characters, playable or not.
Now shut the fuck up about this utter lack of an issue already.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for pointing out that there's a group that makes up 50% of the Earth's population, but in these big-name games has had one main character, one NPC and one character skin for multiplayer.
[QUOTE=BLUcody;45084246]because theres only very little companies that do that and its very disheartening. it shouldnt be a minority of companies.
also, it does affect people. video games are another form of media and if youre saying media doesnt affect people then oh jeez youre wrong[/QUOTE]
Why shouldnt it be a minority of companies? Seriously, why should any company or dev group do what random people on the internet want?
Why should anyone pander to anyone when creating media? If this is what devs and publishers want to do then what is wrong? Its freedom of expression.
Plus maybe you should look at games that arent just big budget triple A western games you see on TV everyday and broaden your horizons.
It may seem like im defending these AAA games but I have the same thoughts as lot of people, such as being bored of these cliche MCs, but I just find better games now, cant really think of recent AAA that were really worthwhile.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45084425]Why should anyone pander to anyone when creating media? If this is what devs and publishers want to do then what is wrong? Its freedom of expression.[/QUOTE]
You view providing basic relatable characters to half of the video game market (women) as "pandering". Do you see how that attitude is problematic?
The smart game developer perspective isn't that you want to have your audiences totally segregated but you actually want to expand them... you know... to make more money. Maybe more women will be more interested in trying the game if they had an option that wasn't [every scruffy 25 year old dude with dark hair and 2 days worth of stubble and gravely voice and dark past] if they had a character that wasn't made specifically only with the existing saturated audience in mind.
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;45084332]Have these co-op characters been revealed as story characters yet, or are they just anonymous assistants? If it's the latter, I don't think it really matters because they won't be adding anything to the story.[/QUOTE]
And if Ubisoft makes this bro-op game, without anyone incessantly whining and bitching I'll never be able to assassinate balding Japanese men with my trusty Amahagane as Kunoichi-Grandmaster Kawaii Mitsubishi Desu.
I, a Straight White Man, think that the lack of representation of Non-Straight White Men is a NON-ISSUE
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45084437]You view providing basic relatable characters to half of the video game market (women) as "pandering". Do you see how that attitude is problematic?[/QUOTE]
It isn't even giving women interesting characters to relate to, I want them too!
I like to RP, why would I RP as a completely average looking white male? Or a androgynous Asian boy?
Between those two archetypes I'm either playing myself or my brother, which is pretty boring.
But holy crap thanks to tell-tale I played as a black man who killed his wife and has to take care of a half black, half Asian girl. Also my best friend is from Florida and is a white southerner who is a tad racially insensitive but he's cool so I just give him a jokingly hard time about it.
Also I pulled the race card to win an argument, now I totally understand why black people do it. It is very satisfying to throw logic to the wind and just say, "Pff cus he's RACIST!"
i hope yall arguing against this realize you're just saying "no i don't care i only want average white guys as game protags forever. cater everything to me nobody else matters"
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45084437]You view providing basic relatable characters to half of the video game market (women) as "pandering". Do you see how that attitude is problematic?
The smart game developer perspective isn't that you want to have your audiences totally segregated but you actually want to expand them... you know... to make more money. Maybe more women will be more interested in trying the game if they had an option that wasn't [every scruffy 25 year old dude with dark hair and 2 days worth of stubble and gravely voice and dark past] if they had a character that wasn't made specifically only with the existing saturated audience in mind.[/QUOTE]
I find the people demanding it pandering actually.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45084529]I find the people demanding it pandering actually.[/QUOTE]
Do you even read anything Kinglah Crab posts?
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45084425]Why shouldnt it be a minority of companies? Seriously, why should any company or dev group do what random people on the internet want?
Why should anyone pander to anyone when creating media? If this is what devs and publishers want to do then what is wrong? Its freedom of expression.
Plus maybe you should look at games that arent just big budget triple A western games you see on TV everyday and broaden your horizons.
It may seem like im defending these AAA games but I have the same thoughts as lot of people, such as being bored of these cliche MCs, but I just find better games now, cant really think of recent AAA that were really worthwhile.[/QUOTE]
Because those random people on the Internet... buy their games? As customers we have every right to challenge Ubisoft's decisions and excuses, both with our wallets and with our words.
It's been said to death but it's still right: Freedom of expression and freedom of speech do not grant you freedom from criticism. We as (potential) customers are expressing [i]our[/i] freedom of speech in condemning Ubisoft.
Most people do, and truth be told there's not a lot of indie games out there that can really muster the same connection and immersion that a triple-A game can. There's a few here and there, but for those of us really into immersive worlds we're mostly stuck looking for those $60 releases coming out.
[QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45084515]i hope yall arguing against this realize you're just saying "no i don't care i only want average white guys as game protags forever. cater everything to me nobody else matters"[/QUOTE]
I'm all for diversity and representing the underrepresented, but it's ironically quite sexist of people to say we have a problem just because the player characters are men.
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;45084602]I'm all for diversity and representing the underrepresented, but it's ironically quite sexist of people to say we have a problem just because the player characters are men.[/QUOTE]
this has been said over and over are you kidding me
the issue isn't that the player characters are men it's that like [I]95% of all player characters in any given game are men[/I]
also "sexist" lmao white guys aren't oppressed get over yourself
should've said this originally: the fact that some people might want characters that aren't average guys for once is sexist? really now
i feel that the people who are the defending this game dev choice with 'it's just a game...' feel like that their sense of masculinity is being stamped down on by people
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;45084602]I'm all for diversity and representing the underrepresented, but it's ironically quite sexist of people to say we have a problem just because the player characters are men.[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, pointing out sexism makes us the real sexists!
i, average facepunch user, advocate that every single character in every single game should be an adult caucasian male with a little bit of stubble because i don't want characters to be visually interesting
aight i won't make any more posts like this soz. it'd be 2 lame of me to keep crushing your guys' dumb argument over and over
[QUOTE=MegaJohnny;45083638]Agreed. I mean, [url=http://cnt.likealaugh.org/132trololol/20130423-003056-132-182.jpg]this[/url] is pretty much what the guards see when you're "blending in".
Even better was in AC2 when you attend the Venice festival and become completely anonymous by putting on a mask. Not even willing suspension of disbelief could help me with that one.[/QUOTE]
The best assassins are the ones who look like ordinary people.
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;45084602]I'm all for diversity and representing the underrepresented, but it's ironically quite sexist of people to say we have a problem just because the player characters are men.[/QUOTE]
It isn't that I have a problem playing as a white male, it's the fact that there are only white males to play.
You know, I liked Dragon Age origins because I could play as so many races, and play a different socio-economic status for each race.
Do you know what they did in Dragon Age 2? They let the Third Reich take over in the gap between the first story ending and the second one beginning and then there were only burly white dudes from then on.
If Skyrim can make you play as 20 different possible races/genders then providing just 2 options isn't really much to ask from AAA studios
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45084751]If Skyrim can make you play as 20 different possible races/genders then providing just 2 options isn't really much to ask from AAA studios[/QUOTE]
ugh
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