• Yes All Men: Assassin’s Creed Bro-op Controversy Escalates
    552 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45084711]i, average facepunch user, advocate that every single character in every single game should be an adult caucasian male with a little bit of stubble because i don't want characters to be visually interesting aight i won't make any more posts like this soz. it'd be 2 lame of me to keep crushing your guys' dumb argument over and over[/QUOTE] Its not about being "visually interesting" and summing up minorities as such is disgusting. White straight males cannot understand, care, or respect other people or cultures than their own and can never treat others with respect as they cannot understand how they have inflicted pain and humiliation upon others day by day.
i refuse to play a game unless im completely certain that im playing as a straight white male
[QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45084633]this has been said over and over are you kidding me the issue isn't that the player characters are men it's that like [I]95% of all player characters in any given game are men[/I] also "sexist" lmao white guys aren't oppressed get over yourself should've said this originally: the fact that some people might want characters that aren't average guys for once is sexist? really now[/QUOTE] I explicitly stated I'm all for diversity and representing the underrepresented. The issue here is, the three co-op partners in the new Assassin's Creed game are men. People are complaining because they're men, so yes that's sexism. Believe it or not, you can be sexist to white men even if they're not oppressed! Shocking, right?
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;45084558]Do you even read anything Kinglah Crab posts?[/QUOTE] Yeah, and they are just a bunch of strawmans like [QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45084515]i hope yall arguing against this realize you're just saying "no i don't care i only want average white guys as game protags forever. cater everything to me nobody else matters"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;45084794]People are complaining because they're men, so yes that's sexism.[/QUOTE] People are complaining because there's not only one, not two, not three, but [B]four [/B]white guys with stubble. One of them could have at least been different.
[QUOTE=LurkyLurker;45084781]Its not about being "visually interesting" and summing up minorities as such is disgusting. White straight males cannot understand, care, or respect other people or cultures than their own and can never treat others with respect as they cannot understand how they have inflicted pain and humiliation upon others day by day.[/QUOTE] ya i didn't mean that my b [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Bread_Baron;45084794]I explicitly stated I'm all for diversity and representing the underrepresented. The issue here is, the three co-op partners in the new Assassin's Creed game are men. People are complaining because they're men, so yes that's sexism. Believe it or not, you can be sexist to white men even if they're not oppressed! Shocking, right?[/QUOTE] holy shit STOP ADVOCATING FOR DIFFERENT CHARACTERS!!! UGH!!!!!!! WHY CAN'T EVERYONE JUST BE HAPPY WITH FOUR IDENTICAL WHITE GUY PROTAGS!!???! YOU SEXISTS
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45081249]Why shouldn't it be a requirement? Their "it's too much work" excuse is obviously bullshit, they're not bothering to include playable female characters because of some fucked up "video games are for boys" mentality. Defending them just validates that attitude.[/QUOTE] You couldn't play as a female in Half-Life and nobody's complaining. You can't be a woman in CSGO and nobody's saying a fucking word. The three protagonists in GTAV are male. You don't play as a woman in any of the Bioshock games. The list goes on. Now tell me, why isn't anyone complaining about those? If adding females should be a requirement, then all of those games should be considered misogynistic and generally bad. Adding females should not be a requirement and this statement is fucking dumb. You aren't entitled to be a woman just because you want to. You can't change the main character in your favorite book to a female (or male, for that matter), so why should you be able to in a game with a narrative story? I couldn't play as a male in Mirror's Edge, but do you see me complaining? That game's still on my top-10 list. I can't be a Siren and Male character at the same time, but does anyone care? I can't be a male if I join fourth in a game of L4D with three other male players. Do you see me bitching about that? [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45084815]STOP ADVOCATING FOR DIFFERENT CHARACTERS!!! UGH!!!!!!! WHY CAN'T EVERYONE JUST BE HAPPY WITH FOUR IDENTICAL WHITE GUY PROTAGS!!???! YOU SEXISTS[/QUOTE] Wasn't there some statistics chart or something way back that showed that a majority of gamers were white males in their teens to late twenties or something? It only makes sense to make protagonists white male characters, even if their story claims are bullshit. [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45084751]If Skyrim can make you play as 20 different possible races/genders then providing just 2 options isn't really much to ask from AAA studios[/QUOTE] This isn't an open-world single-player experience with bisexual marriage options.
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;45084794]Believe it or not, you can be sexist to white men even if they're not oppressed! Shocking, right?[/QUOTE] No. You cannot be sexist or racist towards the white straight male because he is a oppressor every day by thought or by deed. Hatred and rage are understandable when it is against a race who has crushed, demeaned and humiliated all others for millennia.
[QUOTE=gk99;45084838]Wasn't there some statistics chart or something way back that showed that a majority of gamers were white males in their teens to late twenties or something? It only makes sense to make protagonists white male characters, even if their story claims are bullshit.[/QUOTE] why would being a white dude make you want to play as a white dude in every game
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45084672]Ah yes, pointing out sexism makes us the real sexists![/QUOTE] It's not sexism when it's just relating to the majority of your demographic; it's business. I'm not saying it's a fucking amazing idea if story-wise the genders/races/etc don't matter, but I haven't exactly played the game, so I don't know if they do or not. [QUOTE=VaultBoi;45084879]why would being a white dude make you want to play as a white dude in every game[/QUOTE] I don't know? It just seems to work that way, I guess. I play as male_04 in GMod. I play as an Imperial, Nord, or Breton in TES games. I play as a caucasian in Fallout. I play as a white guy in Saints Row. If you give me the option, I'm going to play as one.
[QUOTE=gk99;45084838]You couldn't play as a female in Half-Life and nobody's complaining. You can't be a woman in CSGO and nobody's saying a fucking word. The three protagonists in GTAV are male. You don't play as a woman in any of the Bioshock games. The list goes on. Now tell me, why isn't anyone complaining about those? If adding females should be a requirement, then all of those games should be considered misogynistic and generally bad.[/QUOTE] I distinctly remember people complaining about GTA V... The reason people don't complain about Half-Life is because Gordon Freeman is the blankest of slates and doesn't say anything. Bioshock 1 and 2 were mute blank slates as well, Infinite revolved around the father/daughter relationship. Now contrast with Assassin's Creed, with different settings every game, and in our case, an option to choose from FOUR protagonists. Do you see where the difference lies? [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=gk99;45084838]Wasn't there some statistics chart or something way back that showed that a majority of gamers were white males in their teens to late twenties or something?[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp"]According to the ESRB 48% of players are female[/URL]
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45084803]People are complaining because there's not only one, not two, not three, but [B]four [/B]white guys with stubble. One of them could have at least been different.[/QUOTE] I get what you're saying, they could have been a bit more imaginative. Out of curiosity, what would you think of one or more of those men wasn't your typical male protagonist? If they were overly flamboyant, or short, or black? Do you think the issue is that they're men, or that they're all too similar? [QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45084815]ya i didn't mean that my b [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] holy shit STOP ADVOCATING FOR DIFFERENT CHARACTERS!!! UGH!!!!!!! WHY CAN'T EVERYONE JUST BE HAPPY WITH FOUR IDENTICAL WHITE GUY PROTAGS!!???! YOU SEXISTS[/QUOTE] Thanks for putting words in my mouth, but that's twice now you've missed me saying "I'm all for diversity and representing the underrepresented."
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;45084930]Do you think the issue is that they're men, or that they're all too similar?[/QUOTE] The issue is that they're all the same overrepresented character archetype.
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;45084930]Thanks for putting words in my mouth, but that's twice now you've missed me saying "I'm all for diversity and representing the underrepresented."[/QUOTE] ok but why are you adamantly against ppl wanting characters that are different is it because you think white guys are 'normal' and anything else is weird?
[QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45084956]ok but why are you adamantly against ppl wanting characters that are different is it because you think white guys are 'normal' and anything else is weird?[/QUOTE] Will you stop strawmanning and putting words in peoples mouths? No one fucking said that or is thinking that here, actually no ones said anything close to what you are shitposting with this entire time.
[QUOTE=gk99;45084838]You couldn't play as a female in Half-Life and nobody's complaining. You can't be a woman in CSGO and nobody's saying a fucking word. The three protagonists in GTAV are male. You don't play as a woman in any of the Bioshock games. The list goes on. Now tell me, why isn't anyone complaining about those? If adding females should be a requirement, then all of those games should be considered misogynistic and generally bad. Adding females should not be a requirement and this statement is fucking dumb. You aren't entitled to be a woman just because you want to. You can't change the main character in your favorite book to a female (or male, for that matter), so why should you be able to in a game with a narrative story? I couldn't play as a male in Mirror's Edge, but do you see me complaining? That game's still on my top-10 list. I can't be a Siren and Male character at the same time, but does anyone care? I can't be a male if I join fourth in a game of L4D with three other male players. Do you see me bitching about that? [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] Wasn't there some statistics chart or something way back that showed that a majority of gamers were white males in their teens to late twenties or something? It only makes sense to make protagonists white male characters, even if their story claims are bullshit. [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] This isn't an open-world single-player experience with bisexual marriage options.[/QUOTE] Wasn't half-life made a really long time ago and all this broadening of the demographic of gamers is pretty recent? Isn't CS:GO super competitive to the professional level and 1 fucking nano-meter of hitbox difference in characters or the visual dimensions of a character would make people break every teacup in their house out of anger? Wasn't there similar bitching about lack of diversity in GTAV? I'm pretty sure there was so that was a bad example on your part. You've got me on Bioshock, I don't bitch because it was a great game the way they did it. Making the character generic, white and boring only made everything around him feel more interesting. Maybe that's what Ubisoft is going for, they know they write stories on the fanfiction level, so their just going to bland the characters until everyone says, "Wow isn't Paris amazing?"
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45084973]Will you stop strawmanning and putting words in peoples mouths? No one fucking said that or is thinking that here.[/QUOTE] alright then please explain why it's wrong to want characters that are female or of colour instead of a cast of all-white, all-males
[QUOTE=killerteacup;45082871]Why should any game or form of media be exempt from scrutiny about its attitudes towards gender, race and sex It is not about a niche of people it is about a standard of respect and inclusiveness that everyone has a right to expect from each other in modern society but is still sorely underrepresented in one of our most popular forms of media[/QUOTE] having only men in your game is not indicative of a negative 'attitude' towards women, neither is having women in it. Literally I see no reason why your choice of characters in your game should be translated into 'an attitude' or an 'idea' about sexism/racism etc. It's such short-sighted thinking.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45084887]I distinctly remember people complaining about GTA V...[/QUOTE] I don't. [QUOTE]The reason people don't complain about Half-Life is because Gordon Freeman is the blankest of slates and doesn't say anything. Bioshock 1 and 2 were mute blank slates as well,[/QUOTE] You haven't played the game, how do you know they're bright and full of personality? [QUOTE]Infinite revolved around the father/daughter relationship.[/QUOTE] Thanks for proving my point about narratives. [QUOTE]Now contrast with Assassin's Creed, with different settings every game, and in our case, an option to choose from FOUR protagonists.[/QUOTE] How do you know they don't all have backstories that affect the main one? [QUOTE][URL="http://www.theesa.com/facts/gameplayer.asp"]According to the ESRB 48% of players are female[/URL][/QUOTE] Then I retract that statement and anything that followed from that particular point and admit I was wrong.
[QUOTE=VaultBoi;45084879]why would being a white dude make you want to play as a white dude in every game[/QUOTE] Personally I don't think it does, in every Saints Row game I've played as a black guy first time round. If I'm playing Mirror's Edge, or The Walking Dead, or any game where I'm not a white guy I don't think "I wish I was a white guy right now" in the same way I don't play a game and think "I wish I wasn't a white guy right now."
[QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45084987]alright then please explain why it's wrong to want characters that are female or of colour instead of a cast of all-white, all-males[/QUOTE] If it's optional, then there isn't one. The issue is people demanding it like they're entitled to it.
[QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45084987]alright then please explain why it's wrong to want characters that are female or of colour instead of a cast of all-white, all-males[/QUOTE] Nothing is wrong with that but it's stupid just to want to shoehorn that into a game thats already in dev stage just for the sake of it. We want to change one of the characters that may already have thousands of lines and animations and models at the drop of a hat to pander to feminists who may or may not be indifferent. (I think they have bigger issues at hand than a character in an AC game.)
[QUOTE=gk99;45085012]If it's optional, then there isn't one. The issue is people demanding it like they're entitled to it.[/QUOTE] and you're entitled to white guy mains?
[QUOTE=Cabbage;45085018]Nothing is wrong with that but it's stupid just to want to shoehorn that into a game thats already in dev stage just for the sake of it. We want to change one of the characters that may already have thousands of lines and animations and models at the drop of a hat to pander to feminists who may or may not be indifferent. (I think they have bigger issues at hand than a character in an AC game.)[/QUOTE] let's be real here it's ubisoft any given one of those identical four coop characters has very little effort put into them
[QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45085019]and you're entitled to white guy mains?[/QUOTE] No, I'm not. I also don't bitch about it if I don't get it. Everyone here seems to be doing so.
[QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45085025]let's be real here it's ubisoft any given one of those identical four coop characters has very little effort put into them[/QUOTE] Okay, shitty developers aside, my point stands. It's shoehorning, it's stupid. It's literally asking for a token character whose only impression on the player will be 'she's there because there has to be a girl for it to be okay'.
[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;45081084]If you do not have an important woman in your story you are automatically a misogynist[/QUOTE] Also, she can't die or get captured or have anything traumatic happen to her ever or else you're contributing to rape culture and misogynistic stereotypes.
[QUOTE=gk99;45085028]No, I'm not. I also don't bitch about it if I don't get it. Everyone here seems to be doing so.[/QUOTE] some people are upset that they (as women or ppl of colour) don't get that 95% of the time why are you so upset about them wanting something for once
[QUOTE=Cabbage;45085055]It's literally asking for a token character whose only impression on the player will be 'she's there because there has to be a girl for it to be okay'.[/QUOTE] The point is that people don't want token characters! It's not hard, numerous games have done this before.
[QUOTE=gk99;45085028]No, I'm not. I also don't bitch about it if I don't get it. Everyone here seems to be doing so.[/QUOTE] of course you wouldn't complain about one game not including white male leads because pretty much ever single other major AAA game will have a protagonist that more or less represents you for non-white non-male players, that's not the case.
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