• Yes All Men: Assassin’s Creed Bro-op Controversy Escalates
    552 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Nukefuzz;45085068]Also, she can't die or get captured or have anything traumatic happen to her ever or else you're contributing to rape culture and misogynistic stereotypes.[/QUOTE] Way to misunderstand the point...
[QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45084987]alright then please explain why it's wrong to want characters that are female or of colour instead of a cast of all-white, all-males[/QUOTE] There is actually nothing wrong with that, if you want more female or races in games then thats completely fine. Not a single person in this thread has argued otherwise, regardless of your constant shitposts trying to say otherwise. There is something wrong with people thinking a game has to have all that though and demanding it all the time every week with people and even game "journalists" calling out companies/devs as racists/sexist/misogynist. Look at the entire MGSV Quiet fiasco.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45085087]There is actually nothing wrong with that, if you want more female or races in games then thats completely fine. Not a single person in this thread has argued otherwise, regardless of your constant shitposts trying to say otherwise. There is something wrong with people thinking a game has to have all that though and demanding it all the time every week with people and even game "journalists" calling out companies/devs as racists/sexist/misogynist. Look at the entire MGSV Quiet fiasco.[/QUOTE] me arguing against you by pointing out how dumb/pointless your perspective is is shitposting, got it
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;45084980]Maybe that's what Ubisoft is going for, they know they write stories on the fanfiction level, so their just going to bland the characters until everyone says, "Wow isn't Paris amazing?"[/QUOTE] Thinking about it, I can't really remember much of the main charecters in Assasins Creed. Only really about the things around them, though I guess that makes sense in a way
[QUOTE=Nukefuzz;45085068]Also, she can't die or get captured or have anything traumatic happen to her ever or else you're contributing to rape culture and misogynistic stereotypes.[/QUOTE] Well, it depends on how it's handled and if it's dealt with in a respectful manner, really. Like, if you have a game with both lots of male and female characters, but only the latter dies or whatever, some people might raise an eyebrow That was probably a really bad example and if anyone has a better one, please correct me here
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45083949]People are actually having a debate about all this ? For fucks sake. Far Cry 3 had a 4-player coop mode, one of the characters is female. Assassin's Creed: Liberation has a female protagonist. Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag doesn't have a female protagonist, but it has James Kidd. There. These are all game by Ubisoft that had female characters, playable or not. Now shut the fuck up about this utter lack of an issue already.[/QUOTE] That's actually incredibly unrepresentative of the number of notable female characters in AssCreed, even the ones you don't get to play as. AC1 had Maria Thorpe, a tough knight lady who stood in as a body double for Robert de Sable and put up a really good fight during her boss battle near the end of the game. She even abandons the Templars between AC1 and 2, becomes a tough assassin lady, marries Altair, and gives him two sons to continue his legacy. 2, Brotherhood, and Revelations has numerous important female characters, some of which were revealed to be powerful assassins or allies to the order. Off the top of my head, I can name Claudia Auditore, Maria Auditore, Cristina Vespucci, Paola, Rosa, Teodora Contanto, Caterina Sforza, Lucrezia Borgia, Pantasilea Baglioni, and Sofia Sartor. Assassin's Creed III kind of fell behind here, but there's Connor's mother Ziio (whom I believe is controlled by the player for one or two missions, correct me if I'm wrong), and Dobby Carter, one of the six recruit-able assassins who later suggests that she and Connor hook up after the events of the game. There was also the numerous amount of men and women that Connor could invite to live on the Davenport Homestead, and I personally found their side missions to be more engaging than the main plot at times.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45085080]The point is that people don't want token characters! It's not hard, numerous games have done this before.[/QUOTE] I agree, but now that this game has hit dev stage, if the new female character gets into the game everyone will know she's just there to make feminists happy, not to be of much value in the game. Thus a bullet is acquainted with a foot.
[QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45085112]me arguing against you by pointing out how dumb/pointless your perspective is is shitposting, got it[/QUOTE] You actually didnt argue anything, put words in a shitload of peoples mouths, and strawman. Nothing you shitposted with even applies to me or even accurate of my thoughts at all, so yes they are shitposts, shit quality, shit strawmans, just shit in general.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45084949]The issue is that they're all the same overrepresented character archetype.[/QUOTE] This all started off with the complaint being "they're all men", so apologies. I agree that too much similarity is an issue but there seems to be quite a few people that think the problem is they're men, that their maleness is a problem and not the fact that they all appear to be variations of the same guy. (I can't really find better words for that last sentence at the moment but hopefully you know what I mean.) Unless these three co-op partners are a big part of the story I don't see it as [I]much[/I] of an issue when their role is almost negligible. If they are a big part of the story, then I would prefer a few diverse characters. That said, we know nothing about these characters beyond the fact they're white men so hopefully if they're story characters then they will have diverse personalities and Ubisoft can shut people up for making assumptions based on race and sex. [QUOTE=Kinglah Crab;45084956]ok but why are you adamantly against ppl wanting characters that are different is it because you think white guys are 'normal' and anything else is weird?[/QUOTE] Even in the post where I say "I'm all for diversity and representing the underrepresented" you somehow completely miss the point. No, I don't think white guys are "normal". Everyone on this planet is equal regardless of ethnicity or gender, that goes without saying. What I'm saying is that I'm not exactly on board with people complaining because the player characters are men. I can see the issue (as Max points out) that there are too many similar video game protagonists. However, I don't think the characters should be targeted solely because they're men.
Wait HoodedSniper if disagreeing with someone is shitposting, what are you doing right now?
They should make a real female assassin game. Not one where you are some bad ass parkour swords woman, but one where you are a lady who seduces her targets and stuff and then kills them in bed or something. And check this out. People wanted a Assassins creed game set in Japan. Make her a Geisha. Two flies with one strike.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45084751]If Skyrim can make you play as 20 different possible races/genders then providing just 2 options isn't really much to ask from AAA studios[/QUOTE] Skyrim is a RPG, a game where the player character has no discernable personality nor past nor future besides what the player decides to give them. Being able to play 18 different versions of the same character brings the unavoidable issue of said character being boring. The reason characters in AAA titles are bland white males is the same reason why the player character in Skyrim is a bland man/mer/beast - the character's personality, background, or anything else is irrelevant. [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=AntonioR;45085229]They should make a real female assassin game. Not one where you are some bad ass parkour swords woman, but one where you are a lady who seduces her targets and stuff and then kills them in bed or something. Two flies with one strike.[/QUOTE] Assassin's creed liberation has this exact thing.
Jesus christ why is this so HUGE? Please, stop this fucking pitiful blabbering. If Ubisoft didn't do female characters the first time around, they're likely to just not to do them regardless of how many people are screaming at them. It'd be nice to play as things besides 'le white guy' but is it really so utterly necessary, so essential and important to the point where it places itself above all other things to play as a female, a black guy or whatever type of character you have in mind? This type of stuff, when it comes to games and their gameplay, should not be shaping your choice on whether you're going to buy the game or not. Even if you're one of the minorities around in gaming, you could try asking politely instead of making these massive shitstorms encompassing thousands of threads over hundreds of separate forums and reporting sites. Ubisoft might've responded poorly, but FUCK ME this is no way to go about things.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;45085229]They should make a real female assassin game. Not one where you are some bad ass parkour swords woman, but one where you are a lady who seduces her targets and stuff and then kills them in bed or something. And check this out. People wanted a Assassins creed game set in Japan. Make her a Geisha. Two flies with one strike.[/QUOTE] There's an e-mail in Black Flag that says Desmond has an ancestor in feudal Japan IIRC. I don't think the details went beyond that, so it could work. But I think people are getting tired of Desmond's ancestry and the overall modern day plot. They want to be playing a game set in its depicted time period without the sci-fi bullshit, not a game where you play as Desmond/some faceless guy who plugs himself into a glorified video game console to relive the life of his ancestors in search for big glowing balls that cause hallucinations that were created by an ancient race of demigods who are trying to either save or destroy the world or who the fuck knows anymore.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45085242]Skyrim is a RPG, a game where the player character has no discernable personality nor past nor future besides what the player decides to give them. Being able to play 18 different versions of the same character brings the unavoidable issue of said character being boring. The reason characters in AAA titles are bland white males is the same reason why the player character in Skyrim is a bland man/mer/beast - the character's personality, background, or anything else is irrelevant.[/QUOTE] I love it when someone is wrong and you can call them out on it! *Ahem* As a player of RPG's I can tell you that what you said is wrong. My RPG characters are not bland, I GIVE them personality via a backstory because that is what RPG's do. I pick the race, sex, scars, make up some history and the game takes care of everything past that. The reason shooty mc.whiterson is bland is because they DO give him a backstory, a boring generic one. A blank slate is a blank slate, a blank slate is NOT COD ghosts main character who has a family and lived in a rich neighborhood. Who becomes a trigger happy border patrol agent because Mexicans amirite? and feeds his dog larynx shaped doggie treats. That is not a blank slate, that is a boring slate.
[QUOTE=AntonioR;45085229]They should make a real female assassin game. Not one where you are some bad ass parkour swords woman, but one where you are a lady who seduces her targets and stuff and then kills them in bed or something. And check this out. People wanted a Assassins creed game set in Japan. Make her a Geisha. Two flies with one strike.[/QUOTE] If someone actually did that people would complain that the game is implying that women are useless without sex. The reason that games with female protagonists aren't being made is because right now it's too much of a touchy issue, no one wants to take the risk of doing it wrong and facing the backlash.
[QUOTE=MrHeadHopper;45085254]Jesus christ why is this so HUGE? Please, stop this fucking pitiful blabbering. If Ubisoft didn't do female characters the first time around, they're likely to just not to do them regardless of how many people are screaming at them. It'd be nice to play as things besides 'le white guy' but is it really so utterly necessary, so essential and important to the point where it places itself above all other things to play as a female, a black guy or whatever type of character you have in mind? This type of stuff, when it comes to games and their gameplay, should not be shaping your choice on whether you're going to buy the game or not. Even if you're one of the minorities around in gaming, you could try asking politely instead of making these massive shitstorms encompassing thousands of threads over hundreds of separate forums and reporting sites. Ubisoft might've responded poorly, but FUCK ME this is no way to go about things.[/QUOTE] yeah we tried asking politely and we get ignored on a daily basis so that didnt work out lol
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;45085323]I love it when someone is wrong and you can call them out on it! *Ahem* As a player of RPG's I can tell you that what you said is wrong. My RPG characters are not bland, I GIVE them personality via a backstory because that is what RPG's do. I pick the race, sex, scars, make up some history and the game takes care of everything past that.[/quote] What did you not understand in "the player character has no discernable personality nor past nor future besides what the player decides to give them" ? [QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;45085323]The reason shooty mc.whiterson is bland is because they DO give him a backstory, a boring generic one. A blank slate is a blank slate, a blank slate is NOT COD ghosts main character who has a family and lived in a rich neighborhood. Who becomes a trigger happy border patrol agent because Mexicans amirite? and feeds his dog larynx shaped doggie treats. That is not a blank slate, that is a boring slate.[/QUOTE] Call of duty is hardly representative of the entire gaming scene, and most games don't even bother with a backstory because they know it's irrelevant in many cases.
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;45085323]I love it when someone is wrong and you can call them out on it! *Ahem* As a player of RPG's I can tell you that what you said is wrong. My RPG characters are not bland, I GIVE them personality via a backstory because that is what RPG's do. I pick the race, sex, scars, make up some history and the game takes care of everything past that. The reason shooty mc.whiterson is bland is because they DO give him a backstory, a boring generic one. A blank slate is a blank slate, a blank slate is NOT COD ghosts main character who has a family and lived in a rich neighborhood. Who becomes a trigger happy border patrol agent because Mexicans amirite? and feeds his dog larynx shaped doggie treats. That is not a blank slate, that is a boring slate.[/QUOTE] I agree with you there. When I make my own voiceless, blank slate RPG character I don't think of them as blank slates. I imagine their personality, their past and generally who they are. They're blank slates so we can create our own stories for them. [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;45085361][B]What did you not understand in "the player character has no discernable personality nor past nor future besides what the player decides to give them" ? [/B] Call of duty is hardly representative of the entire gaming scene, and most games don't even bother with a backstory because they know it's irrelevant in many cases.[/QUOTE] What part don't you understand? They're not boring if you don't make them boring.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45081079]That's a really idiotic argument.[/QUOTE] Who the hell cares if theres a wang or not on the character you're playing. Ffs, its like everything meets a standstill in time whenever another of these stupid discussions come up. Facepunch should just filter out discussions like these because they serve 0 purpose other than to "chase one's own tail for pages and pages" and getting nothing done.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45085361]Call of duty is hardly representative of the entire gaming scene[/QUOTE] Not when it's one of the best-selling franchises... [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;45085439]Who the hell cares[/QUOTE] I think we've talked about this extensively in the past few pages of the thread and you should go read them
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;45085404]What part don't you understand? They're not boring if you don't make them boring.[/QUOTE] What I said is characters in TES (not even talking about other RPGs) are bland by default unless you give them a background, how exactly are we disagreeing ?
[QUOTE=BLUcody;45085356]yeah we tried asking politely and we get ignored on a daily basis so that didnt work out lol[/QUOTE] Who is "we"? Not everyone is gonna fall into your mindset, you know that right? Even minority's and females.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45085443]Not when it's one of the best-selling franchises...[/QUOTE] Titanic and Avatar are both the highest selling movies of all time worldwide, would you call them representative of the entire movie scene ? Would you call James Cameron the absolute movie director of reference because he has directed the two highest selling movies of all time ?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45085495]Titanic and Avatar are both the highest selling movies of all time worldwide, would you call them representative of the entire movie scene ? Would you call James Cameron the absolute movie director of reference because he has directed the two highest selling movies of all time ?[/QUOTE] Not necessarily, but they're certainly good places to start
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45085361]What did you not understand in "the player character has no discernable personality nor past nor future besides what the player decides to give them" ? Call of duty is hardly representative of the entire gaming scene, and most games don't even bother with a backstory because they know it's irrelevant in many cases.[/QUOTE] Wha- did you even read it? The whole part about RPG characters was to break it down for you, like a beer bottle over your sassy mouth, the difference between RPG blank slates and generic white guy because you were comparing them as equals. Call of duty is the PERFECT example, most stories give more time to backstory than COD does, COD gave you what, maybe a whole 30 seconds before you knew everything about him. "I'm white because I can see my hands, rules out an interesting adoption twists... Oh I have a Dad but no Mom how quant, and I live in a very upscale neighborhood! Glad that's over!" Games like AC, Watch Dogs, Uncharted, they give way more time to story and guess what, they're all about white dudes being generic, not about you using your imagination. Altair Ibn La-A'had (I know he sounds Muslim but it's ok he's actually white) is not about a middle eastern transvestite women fighting against the Templars because they killed her/his husband by firing him off a ballista into a volcano. It's about Desmond Generic getting all angsty and generic and having to kill some bad guys cus he was told too by his boss.
"It's just a video game" proceeds to rack up thousands of posts on a forum based around discussing video games
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45085469]What I said is characters in TES (not even talking about other RPGs) are bland by default unless you give them a background, how exactly are we disagreeing ?[/QUOTE] You said that being able to play 18 variations of the same character brings about the issue of said character being boring. I don't think it does, I've played through Morrowind many times over the years and not once have I thought of my characters as boring because I give them different personalities each time.
I really don't think it worth fretting about it. In the co-op every player sees themselves as the main protagonist. Regardless of who you are and what other players see you as you will still see yourself as Arno, so even if there was a female assassin it wouldn't make it more relatable to anyone since you're still going to see yourself as a male. All the other player models are there are just miscellaneous assassins. The only purpose the model has is to server as a pretty face, they provide absolutely no character to the story. While the inclusion of a female assassin wouldn't have been game breaking the opposite is not either.
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;45085521](I know he sounds Muslim but it's ok he's actually white)[/QUOTE] He's half-Muslim. They just gave him a North American accent in AC1 for whatever silly reason.
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