• Yes All Men: Assassin’s Creed Bro-op Controversy Escalates
    552 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45085495]Titanic and Avatar are both the highest selling movies of all time worldwide, would you call them representative of the entire movie scene ? Would you call James Cameron the absolute movie director of reference because he has directed the two highest selling movies of all time ?[/QUOTE] I think thats a dodgy example because way more movies are released each year than games, and games are typically released as part of franchises, each with their own fanbase that largely stick to a specific franchise or genre. Now this is most evident in the case of CoD because it has a massive casual following; most people will have it and play it from time to time. If you wanted to make a difference like this, CoD would be the most potent place to start, and not, i don't know, DOTA 2. That's not to say I agree with what's being said at all, it's just that gaming is largely influenced by what the top dogs are doing.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45085443]Not when it's one of the best-selling franchises... [editline]12th June 2014[/editline] I think we've talked about this extensively in the past few pages of the thread and you should go read them[/QUOTE] First off, call of duty is shit, and it serves as much purpose as this whole debate in video games, except its even more useless to anyone, other than to milk wallets. Call of duty as it is, is a disease on gaming, and I'd rather see it being turned into anything else other than what it is. Anything. Second, people are focusing on the wrong things. Instead of wanting a good story or good whatever, they want a main character that isn't white or a male or whatever. So what if its a guy? If its a girl, cool. If it's a black guy, cool. If its a black girl, cool. But why the hell must someone go all the way through hell just because they don't like something they wont even be paying attention after a while? And what is wrong in having a white male character anyway? Are white people the only kind of people who can't get any problems or something? Are white people instantly shit as characters because they're white and male? Oh look, the character in this game is a transgender male-to-female disabled person. So what? What purpose does that fill other than not being "generic male character" if the story doesn't goes with it? This is why gaming characters don't evolve. Not because its always a white male, but because people just shove in a girl/black guy/black girl/asian guy or girl/whatever as main character because "hooray diversity now shut up about it"
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45085505]Not necessarily, but they're certainly good places to start[/QUOTE] The only thing these two movies have done is starting fads. Titanic started the whole romantic-story-on-a-historical-disaster-background fad, and Avatar started the whole 3D fad, similarly to how Call of Duty has started the modern shooter fad. You want to know what's the common point of all these ? None of these fads are good or appreciated beyond the original big thing or even durable. It's not representative. The only thing the highest selling whatever of any industry is start fads, often failed ones. You want something representative of the majority of the video game industry at the moment ? Try preorder DLCs, unfinished products, overly tight deadlines, abusive free to play design. Piss-poor writing is also high on the list, but we're getting more and more games that actually have good writing or at the very least an entertaining story for this to no longer be the biggest bad thing about video games.
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;45085564]And what is wrong in having a white male character anyway?[/QUOTE] As we've said about 50 times in this thread already: nothing, the thing is people would like different characters for once
who cares if the next assassin's creed is a gay transgender orc or another white italian dude nobody plays assassin's creed for the character because there is literally no personality to the protagonist
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45085590]As we've said about 50 times in this thread already: nothing, the thing is people would like different characters for once[/QUOTE] What for? You might aswell have a stump being the character if the story doesn't evolve on the character's bio.
[QUOTE=Cabbage;45085555]I think thats a dodgy example because way more movies are released each year than games, and games are typically released as part of franchises, each with their own fanbase that largely stick to a specific franchise or genre. Now this is most evident in the case of CoD because it has a massive casual following; most people will have it and play it from time to time. If you wanted to make a difference like this, CoD would be the most potent place to start, and not, i don't know, DOTA 2. That's not to say I agree with what's being said at all, it's just that gaming is largely influenced by what the top dogs are doing.[/QUOTE] Dude do you not realize the majority of films in like the past 5 years have been mainly franchises or reboots/remakes? Exact same shit like games, both have shitloads of rehashes/reboots/franchise, and both have plenty of new shit.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45085590]As we've said about 50 times in this thread already: nothing, the thing is people would like different characters for once[/QUOTE] That's why everyone's screaming about sexism and not about shotty writing?
[QUOTE=Kondor;45085616]who cares if the next assassin's creed is a gay transgender orc nobody plays assassin's creed for the character because there is literally no personality to the protagonist[/QUOTE] this a stump what good is it that its a girl or a guy or a robot or whatever if that doesn't leads anywhere within the story? sometimes, you could not even have a character AT ALL, and it would be perfectly fine
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;45085619]What for?[/QUOTE] People like to relate to characters that are like them. It's a pretty big thing in fiction.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45085480]Who is "we"? Not everyone is gonna fall into your mindset, you know that right? Even minority's and females.[/QUOTE] when i mean we i mean myself as a vietnamese person and other friends that are minorities (and they agree)
[QUOTE=Stents*;45085622]That's why everyone's screaming about sexism and not about shotty writing?[/QUOTE] That's because of Ubisoft's shoddy excuses.
[QUOTE=Stents*;45085622]That's why everyone's screaming about sexism and not about shotty writing?[/QUOTE] because the two go hand in hand
[QUOTE=Stents*;45085622]That's why everyone's screaming about sexism and not about shotty writing?[/QUOTE] Before getting well written varied characters it'd be a good start if the majority of games got the basics right.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45085629]People like to relate to characters that are like them. It's a pretty big thing in fiction.[/QUOTE] But you are a French, White, 20 something year old male. You cannot relate any harder than you can to this specific AC.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45085668]But you are a French, White, 20 something year old male. You cannot relate any harder than you can to this specific AC.[/QUOTE] This isn't about me.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45085629]People like to relate to characters that are like them. It's a pretty big thing in fiction.[/QUOTE] That's the shittiest excuse ever. "OH I wish I could relate to this lizard man fighting dragons and huge ass spiders." "Wtf is this shit, I can't relate to this assassin at all. I'm a shop clerk ffs." By your logic, games shouldn't have a character at all, and the character would be whatever you wanted it to be, as in you would give it its name and job and everything. How else would you relate to anything then?
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;45085521]Wha- did you even read it? The whole part about RPG characters was to break it down for you, [B]like a beer bottle over your sassy mouth[/B], the difference between RPG blank slates and generic white guy because you were comparing them as equals. Call of duty is the PERFECT example, most stories give more time to backstory than COD does, COD gave you what, maybe a whole 30 seconds before you knew everything about him. "I'm white because I can see my hands, rules out an interesting adoption twists... Oh I have a Dad but no Mom how quant, and I live in a very upscale neighborhood! Glad that's over!" Games like AC, Watch Dogs, Uncharted, they give way more time to story and guess what, they're all about white dudes being generic, not about you using your imagination. Altair Ibn La-A'had (I know he sounds Muslim but it's ok he's actually white) is not about a middle eastern transvestite women fighting against the Templars because they killed her/his husband by firing him off a ballista into a volcano. It's about Desmond Generic getting all angsty and generic and having to kill some bad guys cus he was told too by his boss.[/QUOTE] First off, the bolded part is a brilliant similie and it made my day. I agree with everything except the last two points. Altair originally used Desmond's face and Desmond is of mixed descent. In Revelations both characters got a different face, actually. Other Assassin's Creed games are a mixed bag, I wouldn't call Ezio or Edward generic because they have rich personalities. Aveline certainly isn't the norm. The last issue you raise is more a problem with writing than the race or sex of the protagonists, having a black Jew as the lead won't automatically change the reason they're fighting. Again though, Ezio (for example) actually is fighting because Templars killed his family and later because he develops as a character and has his own ideals, so there's that.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45085643]Before getting well written varied characters it'd be a good start if the majority of games got the basics right.[/QUOTE] You never learn if you don't push youself
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45085636]That's because of Ubisoft's shoddy excuses.[/QUOTE] Honestly what did anyone expect them to say? "We didn't put much effort into writing the game", "We didn't think about it" or "We didn't think it fit the personality of the game"? Believe me I'm not defending Ubisoft, their games are absolutely shit. Watch Dogs was probably one of the most mediocre games I've ever played. But if its bad writing you want to complain about then complain about bad writing.
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;45085689]That's the shittiest excuse ever. "OH I wish I could relate to this lizard man fighting dragons and huge ass spiders." "Wtf is this shit, I can't relate to this assassin at all. I'm a shop clerk ffs."[/QUOTE] Are you being purposefully obtuse? It's not as literal as you make it out to be. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identification_(literature)[/url]
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;45085689]That's the shittiest excuse ever. "OH I wish I could relate to this lizard man fighting dragons and huge ass spiders." "Wtf is this shit, I can't relate to this assassin at all. I'm a shop clerk ffs." By your logic, games shouldn't have a character at all, and the character would be whatever you wanted it to be, as in you would give it its name and job and everything. How else would you relate to anything then?[/QUOTE] Because your job is the sum of your identity lmfao
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45085629]People like to relate to characters that are like them. It's a pretty big thing in fiction.[/QUOTE] Players in co-op will see themselves as the main male protagonist, Arno, regardless of their player model. Simply putting in a female model won't make the characters more relatable.
[QUOTE=Stents*;45085737]Players in co-op will see themselves as the main male protagonist, Arno, regardless of their player model.[/QUOTE] Then the question is: why can't it be different?
[QUOTE=Kondor;45085616]who cares if the next assassin's creed is a gay transgender orc or another white italian dude nobody plays assassin's creed for the character because there is literally no personality to the protagonist[/QUOTE] Altair was pretty fucking boring in the first game, but what you say is a huge overstatement. Ezio had three games to develop and I learned to love him as a character because he was memorable for his personality. That's why so many people complained when they got Connor, they contrasted him to Ezio and even Haytham because Connor lacked their positive qualities.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;45085741]Then the question is: why can't it be different?[/QUOTE] because nobody plays assassin's creed for character variation in fact the characters are similar on purpose
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45085668]But you are a French, White, 20 something year old male. You cannot relate any harder than you can to this specific AC.[/QUOTE] are you for real he's not talking about himself, but about the countless underrepresented groups of people
[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;45085704]You never learn if you don't push youself[/QUOTE] Pushing yourself into unfamiliar territory on a high-budget AAA title can lead to some pretty catastrophic results. AAA games are not the place to experiment with story, characters and such.
[QUOTE=BLUcody;45085640]because the two go hand in hand[/QUOTE] Just because you gave an Assassin's Creed character a pair of tits isn't going to make the character suddenly better. The series consists entirely of shoddy, or at the very least sub-par, main characters, regardless of whether they're white, Native American or African. Maybe the best way to combat sexism in video-games is to combat the shitty, generic cookie-cutter writing that has become endemic to the industry. I mean, isn't that the main issue when we get down to it? Developers being talentless hacks that keep making Generic Whitey McFighty because they don't know anything else? Looking at it that way, the sheer volume of white guys in AAA games has less to do with sexism/racism and more to do with poor writing.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45085768]Pushing yourself into unfamiliar territory on a high-budget AAA title can lead to some pretty catastrophic results. AAA games are not the place to experiment with story, characters and such.[/QUOTE] including even one female protagonist is 'dangerous' and 'experimental' shit i forgot we were in the 19th fucking century
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.