Riot president: "It's pretty frustrating when people try to position us as greedy"
112 replies, posted
[QUOTE=mon_ons;43401901]Doing quick math based on the available information on the wiki, you can get 17550 IP for 3 wins a day for a month assuming they all lasted 55 mins(max time modifier for non-ranked matches). That's not 25k and it's merely a drop in the bucket when you realize how much it costs for just the champions.
[editline]3rd January 2014[/editline]
In Janurary of last year someone did the math and the total cost for all the champions was 412,000 IP. FOR JUST THE CHAMPIONS, that's not even taking in to account rune pages and runes AND it was a year ago, so more champions have been added, raising the total even higher.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention the time that each champion costs, which is absurd.
[QUOTE=joost1120;43401996]It doesn't even take a fucking week to get the most expensive champions.[/QUOTE]
A week of non-stopping winning with several games each day.
[editline]3rd January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=joost1120;43401996]Releasing new skins, multiple new champions, new gamemodes and maps. Pretty greedy.[/QUOTE]
That you have to pay ashtonishing sums. Pretty generous.
[QUOTE=Shortyish;43390407]someone did the math on how much time it would take to buy every champion with the free ingame currency, and it ended up being somewhere around 1435 hours. that's assuming every game is the minimum time for a game (20 minutes), but most are usually double that. that assume all of those games are wins as well. that's also not including runes, which hinder you greatly if you don't have any. riot's pricing system is extremely greedy, no doubt.[/QUOTE]
You don't get as much IP for a 20 minutes game as you get for a game lasting 45 minutes.
[QUOTE=joost1120;43402031]You don't get as much IP for a 20 minutes game as you get for a game lasting 45 minutes.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter how much time the match lasted because in the end, for a champion it'll be the same amount of hours played.
[QUOTE=Keychain;43390931]No matter how you look at it, having to pay for champions is dumb. Sure, there's way to earn them by playing the game but it takes fucking ages. Throughout LoL's lifespan Riot has gradually made everything more expensive and harder to obtain freely.
A new champion costs roughly 8-10 USD I believe, and they increase the price of the in-game currency for new champions for the first week that champion is released, so people have to either wait a week or spend [I]even more[/I] of their hard-earned in-game currency.
Not to mention their new stupid price tiers for their skins, which they actually used as an excuse to [I]increase the price[/I] of some of their already in-game and distributed skins. Imagine if Valve actually went through their shop and made several sets more expensive because they believed they were worth more. They went so far as to attempt to increase the price of a particular skin that they, in the past, specifically promised to never fool with the price of, and when called out on it they backpedaled out of increasing the price of that particular skin. Riot listed out qualifications for what skin meets what tier of price, yet it feels like they just slap a "recall animation" on a mediocre skin just for the sake of having it a higher price than the skin's actually worth. Also having a voice filter over the default one apparently makes the skin more valuable. [/QUOTE]
They're more expensive the first week to stop the champion from being overplayed as much.
90% of the skins actually got cheaper thanks to those price tiers. The only ones that are at 1350 RP are special and pretty awesome ones, like these:
[t]http://images.gameskinny.com/gameskinny/7855098edbde104562332d874836751d.jpg[/t]
[t]http://www.team-dignitas.net/uploads/tinymce/images/kogmaw_liondance.jpg[/t]
[editline]3rd January 2014[/editline]
Oh jeez bye automerge
[QUOTE=joost1120;43401996]It doesn't even take a fucking week to get the most expensive champions.[/QUOTE]
Three 55 minute wins every day for 7 days is about 5k IP, so yeah, I'd say you're wrong.
[QUOTE=joost1120;43402081]They're more expensive the first week to stop the champion from being overplayed as much.
90% of the skins actually got cheaper thanks to those price tiers. The only ones that are at 1350 RP are special and pretty awesome ones[/QUOTE]
90% Are you insane? How misinformed can you be? Only 52 skins got their price reduced and there's well over 190 on the store.
[QUOTE=joost1120;43402081]They're more expensive the first week to stop the champion from being overplayed as much.[/QUOTE]
People actually believe this? Guess I shouldn't be too surprised...
[QUOTE=joost1120;43402081]They're more expensive the first week to stop the champion from being overplayed as much.
[/QUOTE]
I'm already aware of that excuse and it's not a very good one. Dota 2 makes it through fine and all characters are instantly usable and free from the start.
[QUOTE=joost1120;43402081]The only ones that are at 1350 RP are special and pretty awesome ones, like these:
[/QUOTE]
Skins like Soul Reaver Draven and Full Metal Jayce don't do much of anything other than add a filter over the default voice and they are both priced at 1350. Skins like Glacial Malphite that don't really do anything special and those are listed under 1350 as well. Not to mention all of these skins were originally 975, but they increased the price because "they felt like they were worth more" and that's honestly the most retarded business practice I've ever seen.
Also the second skin you used as an example was originally a full-priced Legendary skin. How come they didn't just retire it like they did with the original set of Legendaries? Couldn't they have just reduced their price and kept in the store like that one? Of course not, because you can't have Riot without retarded and greedy business practices.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;43402144]90% Are you insane? How misinformed can you be? Only 52 skins got their price reduced and there's well over 190 on the store.[/QUOTE]
Not only counting the old ones though - it means that certain new skins that would previously be 1820 now can cost 1350.
[editline]3rd January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=mon_ons;43402154]People actually believe this? Guess I shouldn't be too surprised...[/QUOTE]
It's true.
On the first week of a new champion coming out it's almost impossible to play them because whoever gets first pick will almost always pick them - if they're not banned.
Yasuo - the latest champion - was banned or picked in almost 100% of games for the first 3 days after he came out (maybe after that, not sure). I fail to see how there's a problem if he can be bought by that many people.
[QUOTE=SataniX;43402741]Not only counting the old ones though - it means that certain new skins that would previously be 1820 now can cost 1350.[/QUOTE]
Don't kid yourself, of the skin that costed 1820 RP only 3 got their price reduced. 1820 was always reserved to legendary skins if anything this 1350 category just made so skins that would cost 975 cost 1350.
[QUOTE=SataniX;43402741]
It's true.
On the first week of a new champion coming out it's almost impossible to play them because whoever gets first pick will almost always pick them - if they're not banned.
Yasuo - the latest champion - was banned or picked in almost 100% of games for the first 3 days after he came out (maybe after that, not sure). I fail to see how there's a problem if he can be bought by that many people.[/QUOTE]
You contradict yourself. You said he was banned/picked 100% of the games after he came out. That means that the price increase did nothing to prevent this.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;43402970]
You contradict yourself. You said he was banned/picked 100% of the games after he came out. That means that the price increase did nothing to prevent this.[/QUOTE]
I said that's WHY they're doing it - not that it's successful, because it clearly isn't.
Also my argument is that the IP gain is fine, rather than that the price increase is useful.
[editline]3rd January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;43402970]Don't kid yourself, of the skin that costed 1820 RP only 3 got their price reduced. 1820 was always reserved to legendary skins if anything this 1350 category just made so skins that would cost 975 cost 1350. [/QUOTE]
The newer legendary skins are of higher quality though.
The previous legendary skins would be priced at 1350 now if they were released, that's the point.
[QUOTE=SataniX;43403008]I said that's WHY they're doing it - not that it's successful, because it clearly isn't.
Also my argument is that the IP gain is fine, rather than that the price increase is useful.
[/QUOTE]
So your argument is that it's good that they increased the price, even if it didn't do anything for the game?
The IP gain is fine? Are you serious? We just showed how much time it costs do earn a single champion and you think it's fine?
[QUOTE=SataniX;43403008]
The newer legendary skins are of higher quality though.
The previous legendary skins would be priced at 1350 now if they were released, that's the point.[/QUOTE]
Why wasn't the price reduced though? Oh that's right, they're greedy. They want you to pay as much for an old legendary as you do for a "higher" quality legendary.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;43403105]So your argument is that it's good that they increased the price, even if it didn't do anything for the game?
The IP gain is fine? Are you serious? We just showed how much time it costs do earn a single champion and you think it's fine?
[/quote]
The maths above seems to be lower than what I actually receive although I haven't tested it.
From my experience over my time playing and buying champions, it never struck me as too grindy - then again, I'm used to the grind from WoW and War Thunder so maybe I'm more accepting than most.
[quote]
Why wasn't the price reduced though? Oh that's right, they're greedy. They want you to pay as much for an old legendary as you do for a "higher" quality legendary.[/QUOTE]
What are you on about, they did decrease the price - the medium level skins that didn't fit the new 1820 standards got moved to 1820.
[QUOTE=SataniX;43403182]The maths above seems to be lower than what I actually receive although I haven't tested it.
From my experience over my time playing and buying champions, it never struck me as too grindy - then again, I'm used to the grind from WoW and War Thunder so maybe I'm more accepting than most.[/QUOTE]
For one those two are barelly grindy when you compare with any Korean MMO. And then the maths are based on the IP formulas. It considers what the average player should have. And if even that does not convince you, let me break this down to you.
145IP for a 55min game normal game.
Champion Breakdown:
Heroic (450 IP): 11
Epic (1350 IP): 22
Legendary:
3150 IP: 25
4800 IP: 29
6300 IP: 33
TOTAL:460500 IP
460500/145 = 3176 games of 55 minutes = 174680 minutes = 2911 hours = 121 days of gameplay. WINS ONLY.
[QUOTE=SataniX;43403182]
What are you on about, they did decrease the price - the medium level skins that didn't fit the new 1820 standards got moved to 1820.[/QUOTE]
3 Skins got moved.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;43403346]
460500/145 = 3176 games of 55 minutes = 174680 minutes = 2911 hours = 121 days of gameplay. WINS ONLY.
[/quote]
You're not counting the 250ip bonus but that doesn't really matter.
I don't see the problem with this even if it was 121 days - you don't need every champion to enjoy the game at all.
I personally play a small subset, of around 15-20, even though I have all the champions unlocked.
[quote]
3 Skins got moved.[/QUOTE]
And? There weren't many to start with.
Which of the current legendaries would you say don't deserve the 1820 price tag?
[editline]3rd January 2014[/editline]
Also, I've played around 3300 games.
I can guarantee the average of those isn't anywhere near 50 minutes so there's something wrong with your maths.
[QUOTE=SataniX;43404058]You're not counting the 250ip bonus but that doesn't really matter.
I don't see the problem with this even if it was 121 days - you don't need every champion to enjoy the game at all.
I personally play a small subset, of around 15-20, even though I have all the champions unlocked.
[/QUOTE]
It's a game based on pick and counter pick. If you don't have all champions this part of the game gets greatly diminished.
[QUOTE=SataniX;43404058]
And? There weren't many to start with.
Which of the current legendaries would you say don't deserve the 1820 price tag?
[/QUOTE]
Several of the older legendaries only add a different voice over. No new particles, no new model, just a skin and a voice. And they're made on league's OLD voice system, there's barelly a minute or two of voice acting.
[QUOTE=SataniX;43404058]
Also, I've played around 3300 games.
I can guarantee the average of those isn't anywhere near 50 minutes so there's something wrong with your maths.[/QUOTE]
For starter I already told you that since the IP is based on played minutes it doesn't matter how long you play a game. The games CAP at 55 minutes, meaning that 55 minutes games would be the most time you can spend on a game and still earn IP.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;43404361]It's a game based on pick and counter pick. If you don't have all champions this part of the game gets greatly diminished.
[/quote]
Nah. It's not anywhere near as pick-based as Dota. On league you don't get champions where you HAVE TO pick a certain other champion to counter them, and most counter lanes are still easily winnable if you're slightly better than your opponent.
[quote]
Several of the older legendaries only add a different voice over. No new particles, no new model, just a skin and a voice. And they're made on league's OLD voice system, there's barelly a minute or two of voice acting.[/quote]
hencewhy they're either reduced or removed, yes? Your point being?
[quote]
For starter I already told you that since the IP is based on played minutes it doesn't matter how long you play a game. The games CAP at 55 minutes, meaning that 55 minutes games would be the most time you can spend on a game and still earn IP.[/QUOTE]
You're right, my mistake on that one.
It used to depend on the time more than it does now, so I still often get that wrong.
2 things they should do and are probably never going to: lower the price of runes or even remove the rune system altogether, and lower the price of champions.
Like, I seriously have no problem with not having every champion available. But 6300ip for a game where you win ~50ip per win, plus the fact that most games can last from about 30 minutes up to a whole fucking hour, is just WAY too much.
IMO if most 6300 champs were reduced to 3150 and only a few were kept at 4800 it'd be fine. I don't think there's anything wrong with making skins super expensive though, they don't affect gameplay in any way, but the amount of champions you have directly affects your ability to counterpick, and that's absolutely necessary in any moba
[QUOTE=SataniX;43404391]Nah. It's not anywhere near as pick-based as Dota. On league you don't get champions where you HAVE TO pick a certain other champion to counter them, and most counter lanes are still easily winnable if you're slightly better than your opponent.[/QUOTE]
Then what's the point of having so many champions? I know that several are redundant, don't you think this is a design flaw? Charging several times for similar champions seems rather greedy to me.
[QUOTE=SataniX;43404391]
hencewhy they're either reduced or removed, yes? Your point being?[/QUOTE]
They weren't. You can't even begin to compare a skin like battlecast Cho'gath with Gentleman Cho'gath.
[img]http://imageshack.com/a/img22/2802/yi0u.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;43401864]There's a lot wrong with your post. For one, if you lose you lose a lot of time. Sometimes you can get first win in your first game, but sometimes it isn't that simple. And even after that, if you count the ABSOLUTE best case scenario(surrender at 20, first wins only) you get
7800/250 = 31,2 games x 20 minutes = 624 minutes(Almost 10 and a half hours) just for 1 single character.[/QUOTE]
it was just quick math saying it could be done and i was leaving for the bus home from work aswell.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;43404784]
They weren't. You can't even begin to compare a skin like battlecast Cho'gath with Gentleman Cho'gath.
[img]http://imageshack.com/a/img22/2802/yi0u.png[/img][/QUOTE]
Can you not?
Although you're right in saying that Battlecast Cho obviously has greater remodelling of the character done, Gentleman Cho still has a great suite of voice lines etc.
[editline]3rd January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;43404784]Then what's the point of having so many champions? I know that several are redundant, don't you think this is a design flaw? Charging several times for similar champions seems rather greedy to me.
[/QUOTE]
Because they're actually different?
Like...although they perform a similar role, doesn't make them exactly the same.
idk people whining about grinding.
probably everyone i know plays league of legends, even the guys i workout with at the gym does.
We just play and have fun and suddenly we have enough IP. I guess people can use that argument but i don't really feel the game being grindy. I really dont have the need to have 120 champs unlocked when i (i have a big champion pool) only play 5 - 6 junglers and i play them very well. Yasuo can go fuck himself for all i care just give me nocturne or rammus.
once i had 15k ip without even noticing lel
[editline]3rd January 2014[/editline]
this isnt really an argument.
but some of the coolest characters are like 450/1350 ip champs.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;43389859]Does LoL still run out of that shitty client that needs you to load the game engine up again every time you start/spectate a game.[/QUOTE]
Yes, and it runs on fucking Adobe AIR for some god forsaken reason. What's wrong with just using a normal graphical toolkit like WPF/QT. And the updater is slow as hell, even though it uses 'Pando Media Booster' which apparently uses BitTorrent.
[QUOTE=Monkey san;43405157]idk people whining about grinding.
probably everyone i know plays league of legends, even the guys i workout with at the gym does.
We just play and have fun and suddenly we have enough IP. I guess people can use that argument but i don't really feel the game being grindy. I really dont have the need to have 120 champs unlocked when i (i have a big champion pool) only play 5 - 6 junglers and i play them very well. Yasuo can go fuck himself for all i care just give me nocturne or rammus.
once i had 15k ip without even noticing lel
[editline]3rd January 2014[/editline]
this isnt really an argument.
but some of the coolest characters are like 450/1350 ip champs.[/QUOTE]
Just because you have fun only playing a few champs and don't care about your IP anymore doesn't mean everybody else should feel the same.
[QUOTE=Monkey san;43405157]idk people whining about grinding.
probably everyone i know plays league of legends, even the guys i workout with at the gym does.
We just play and have fun and suddenly we have enough IP. I guess people can use that argument but i don't really feel the game being grindy. I really dont have the need to have 120 champs unlocked when i (i have a big champion pool) only play 5 - 6 junglers and i play them very well. Yasuo can go fuck himself for all i care just give me nocturne or rammus.
once i had 15k ip without even noticing lel
[editline]3rd January 2014[/editline]
this isnt really an argument.
but some of the coolest characters are like 450/1350 ip champs.[/QUOTE]
Did you play something comparable with everything unlocked? Because you might simply not know what you're missing out on.
[QUOTE=Monkey san;43405157]We just play and have fun and suddenly we have enough IP. I guess people can use that argument but i don't really feel the game being grindy.[/quote]
that's completely subjective- wait actually no it's not subjective at all. as you've seen already, do the math and you'll see the amount of time it takes is crazy. sure, you might not get bored of playing the same champions that quickly, but i'm willing to bet not everyone is, if riot gets enough complaints that there's an article on the response to those complaints, which this thread is about
[quote]I really dont have the need to have 120 champs unlocked when i (i have a big champion pool) only play 5 - 6 junglers and i play them very well. Yasuo can go fuck himself for all i care just give me nocturne or rammus.[/quote]
well, i get bored really easily. i haven't played any of my "most played champions" in ages, because i played them a lot for like, 20 games and then moved on. obviously, these 20 games weren't enough for me to get even close to buying another champion so i just end up bored and not wanting to play league for a while. but obviously, THAT is subjective.
but even if you take that out, having lots of champions is necessary in competitive play. like it or not, rammus and nocturne don't fit every comp, and you're putting yourself at a disadvantage if you don't have enough champions to choose from that fit your comp and do well against the enemy.
[editline]3rd January 2014[/editline]
i like LoL but i seriously can't believe people actually defend having champions at such absurd prices
[QUOTE=SataniX;43405146]Can you not?
Although you're right in saying that Battlecast Cho obviously has greater remodelling of the character done, Gentleman Cho still has a great suite of voice lines etc.[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously saying that these two have the same value? Jesus fuck.
[QUOTE=SataniX;43405146]
Because they're actually different?
Like...although they perform a similar role, doesn't make them exactly the same.[/QUOTE]
You're saying they're different but you think it's okay to NOT have access to all of them?
Here's a nifty thing:
[url]http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/vvinrar/20213-how-much-rp-does-it-take-to-buy-league-of-legends[/url]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/mtAa9.png[/img]
[quote]
To buy every skin currently available in the game as of today (April 26), you will need to spend 248,950 RP or $1778.21.
[B]To buy every champion currently available in the game, you will need to spend 61390 RP or $438.50. [/B]This figure considers that you are buying the Digital Collector’s Pack and the Champion’s Bundle.
To buy a 520 RP skin for every champion in the game you need to spend 50440 RP or $360.29.
To buy a 975 RP skin for every champion in the game you need to spend 94575.54 or $675.54.[/quote]
You could spend 400 dollars on LoL and you still wouldn't have enough for every gameplay-affecting champion.
[QUOTE=Ragekipz;43406094]Are you seriously saying that these two have the same value? Jesus fuck.
[/QUOTE]
that's not a good comparison though. cho has an old as shit model, and just like any other old champion, he's getting a visual update along with all of his skins
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;43406216]that's not a good comparison though. cho has an old as shit model, and just like any other old champion, he's getting a visual update along with all of his skins[/QUOTE]
Even if they update his model, Gentleman Cho will still be just a reskin with a different voice over.
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