Steam purchases in the EU now refundable for 14 days
41 replies, posted
[QUOTE=DeandreT;47347698]And win. I think you'll find in most countries you can't just waive your rights away in the purchase of a product.[/QUOTE]
Did you even read the highly relevant section from the official EU guidance document which states exactly that, or any of the other informative posts on the subject, including the one I linked to in the text you quoted?
The right to withdraw is lost by the consumer as soon as the "performance" starts with the consumers "consent and acknowledgment of the loss of this right", which is exactly what the changes to Steam's checkout process do. They require the user's acknowledgement and consent to the fact they will lose their right to withdraw at the time of purchase.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;47347785]Did you even read the highly relevant section from the official EU guidance document which states exactly that, or any of the other informative posts on the subject, including the one I linked to in the text you quoted?
The right to withdraw is lost by the consumer as soon as the "performance" starts with the consumers "consent and acknowledgment of the loss of this right", which is exactly what the changes to Steam's checkout process do. They require the user's acknowledgement and consent to the fact they will lose their right to withdraw at the time of purchase.[/QUOTE]
But in most EU countries you'd still be able to get a refund regardless of what the EULA says as long as you feel you've received a faulty product or of lesser quality. There are consumer laws in each country that protect people from stuff exactly like what Valve has proposed. My point is that this pretty much changes nothing since more localized laws are in effect.
[QUOTE=DeandreT;47347890]But in most EU countries you'd still be able to get a refund regardless of what the EULA says as long as you feel you've received a faulty product or of lesser quality. There are consumer laws in each country that protect people from stuff exactly like what Valve has proposed. My point is that this pretty much changes nothing since more localized laws are in effect.[/QUOTE]
It seems you've misunderstood this. You would not be able to get a refund in the EU, as what Valve have implemented now is EXACTLY what the EU law says. EU law says you lose the right to get a refund (For the reason of just not wanting it, this is different from returning faulty products) as soon as you start using it, and the seller has to tell you that upon purchase you won't be able to return it once it's used - in this case, having it added to your account counts as using it. How it would normally work with physical items is you have 14 day to return an unused or unopened product, and for digital content it would normally be you have to wait 14 days to be able to just download and install it, if they didn't get your permission to do that straight away.
This is not Valve changing their terms to get around a law, this is Valve changing their terms to do what the EU law says. It is not something they've added to their EULA to get some sort of advantage and avoid the EU law.
As i posted previously:
[url]http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/buy-sell-online/rights-e-commerce/index_en.htm[/url]
[quote]
You also enjoy the right of withdrawal within 14 days from concluding the contract for online digital content. However,[B] once you start downloading or streaming the content you may no longer withdraw from the purchase[/B], provided that the trader has complied with his obligations. Specifically,[B] the trader must first obtain your explicit agreement to the immediate download or streaming[/B], and you must explicitly acknowledge that you lose your right to withdraw once the performance has started.[/quote]
[QUOTE=DeandreT;47347890]But in most EU countries you'd still be able to get a refund regardless of what the EULA says as long as you feel you've received a faulty product or of lesser quality. There are consumer laws in each country that protect people from stuff exactly like what Valve has proposed. My point is that this pretty much changes nothing since more localized laws are in effect.[/QUOTE]
The exact wording of the EU laws are being quoted; the exact wording. It has nothing to do with Valve's EULA, and everything to do with them complying with both the letter and intent of the EU laws.
[QUOTE=DeandreT;47347890]But in most EU countries you'd still be able to get a refund regardless of what the EULA says as long as you feel you've received a faulty product or of lesser quality. There are consumer laws in each country that protect people from stuff exactly like what Valve has proposed. My point is that this pretty much changes nothing since more localized laws are in effect.[/QUOTE]
Faulty products, is not the same as unwanted goods. There is a whole different spectrum of laws in place for that.
I wish this was possible for Canadians, back when I bought rust.
[QUOTE=Cold;47347979]Faulty products, is not the same as unwanted goods. There is a whole different spectrum of laws in place for that.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, but when we're talking about getting refunds I assume we're talking about faulty products and not just getting a refund for the sake of it. Even if this EULA bypasses EU law it certainly does not get past things like [URL="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54?view=plain"]this[/URL]. There is a bunch of similar legislation for other European countries that act in pretty much the same way.
[QUOTE=DeandreT;47348082]Agreed, but when we're talking about getting refunds I assume we're talking about faulty products and not just getting a refund for the sake of it. Even if this EULA bypasses EU law it certainly does not get past things like [URL="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54?view=plain"]this[/URL]. There is a bunch of similar legislation for other European countries that act in pretty much the same way.[/QUOTE]
Once again, this has nothing to do with faulty products. It does not bypass anything at all, and this is Valve doing exactly what the EU law says they should do. They have not made anything up or interpreted it in a certain way to get around something, they're following what the EU law says exactly.
[QUOTE=DeandreT;47348082]Agreed, but when we're talking about getting refunds I assume we're talking about faulty products and not just getting a refund for the sake of it. Even if this EULA bypasses EU law it certainly does not get past things like [URL="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54?view=plain"]this[/URL]. There is a bunch of similar legislation for other European countries that act in pretty much the same way.[/QUOTE]
No, were talking about refund without a valid reason. Maybe you should try reading the article before posting.
[quote]From now on, purchases made in the EU will have a 14 day period in which the buyer can receive a refund [B]no-questions-asked[/B]. [/quote]
[quote]withdraw from a purchase transaction for digital content without charge and [B]without giving any reason[/B] for a duration of fourteen days[/quote]
If you have a valid reason why you think your product is faulty, all you need to do is contact support. For example in the case of "War Z" who explicitly lied about available features on the store page. Valve actively promoted you to just contact support and they would refund it.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;47346946]
And you know what, Valve could be doing more to bring a more robust refund policy to Steam in much the same way they are pushing Linux support, or VR. But to single them out as if they are years behind other digital distributes in terms of refunds is incorrect.[/QUOTE]
okay, classic capitalism
but still, steam is the leader platform compared to all of those
[QUOTE=DaMastez;47346946]Ah yes, how about Origin*:
Looking good, but oh wait:
How about Ubisoft:
Or GMG:
Or GOG:
Or Humble Bundle:
Oh...
The only reason everyone focuses on Steam is because they're the biggest, but the fact of the matter is everyone does this. Now, to be fair, GOG has a clause with regards to refunding for games which do not function, which is more than can seemingly be said of the rest.
*Before anyone brings up Origin's Great game guarantee:
In other words; not every game sold through Origin is eligible.
And you know what, Valve could be doing more to bring a more robust refund policy to Steam in much the same way they are pushing Linux support, or VR. But to single them out as if they are years behind other digital distributes in terms of refunds is incorrect.[/QUOTE]
I can [I]sort of[/I] get behind GOG and Humble since they sell DRM-free games, because once you've downloaded it it doesn't matter if they remove it from your account. GMG also since they mostly sell keys for other platforms; they may not have the powers to revoke the keys that are "returned".
But if a game requires Steam/Origin/uPlay to run then it should be refund-able. And people focus on Steam because it's still the worst afaik, what with their policy being "ok we'll refund you this non-working game this one time, but next time you have a problem just fuck off :^)". Not to mention they're the one who sell the most broken/misleading/scam games and have basically no customer support.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;47349328]I can [I]sort of[/I] get behind GOG and Humble since they sell DRM-free games, because once you've downloaded it it doesn't matter if they remove it from your account. GMG also since they mostly sell keys for other platforms; they may not have the powers to revoke the keys that are "returned".
But if a game requires Steam/Origin/uPlay to run then it should be refund-able. And people focus on Steam because it's still the worst afaik, what with their policy being "ok we'll refund you this non-working game this one time, but next time you have a problem just fuck off :^)". Not to mention they're the one who sell the most broken/misleading/scam games and have basically no customer support.[/QUOTE]
And valve isn't facing the same issue with being potentially unable to revoke keys for any game that has a CD key, except on a much larger scale? Though I doubt technical limitations are the only problem, there's also the potential for legal difficulties with regards to refunds as well.
As to broken/scam games, maybe it's just me being a "brainwashed American" but I've always viewed it as my own responsibility to vet the products I'm buying rather than relying on any store or platform to do so for me. That, to me, means looking at reviews and whatever other information is available.
On another note, a deal of people bring up "broken" games which I've always found to be odd. I've wondered how people define broken because I've never bought a game I considered broken. Is it that the game is just (subjectively) bad, is it they tried to start the game and it didn't work, is it a newly released game which doesn't work, or something else? I've had my share of games which were bad, and many more than required some searching to get working, but I've never had a game that I couldn't get working after some work (at which point I would consider the game to be broken).
Mind, I'm not saying expecting a game to just work on launch day is wrong and that bug filled launch titles should be expected, or that my view on the definition of "broken" is the only valid one, I'm just wondering what people have in mind when they are referring to broken games.
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