• Steam Greenlight adds $100 submission fee
    142 replies, posted
Guess you'll have to be 100 $ serious to get your game on steam. [editline]6th September 2012[/editline] But seriously, 10 $ would be more then enough to ward off "comedians"
Good, this should stop people from trying to sell [I]copies of the game that they already have.[/I] I.E. some dude tried selling his copy of L4D2, which he got on steam, on steam greenlight. :headdesk: [editline]6th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Philly c;37560209]I don't know what's so special about steam anyway that it needs to have a popularity contest to be on it. If a game is finished and ready to buy, i'd rather just buy straight from the developer than vote for the "privilege" of it being on steam. I just don't understand greenlight.[/QUOTE] It changes the game, its no longer just "if Valve sees your game, some devs play it, and convince enough in Valve to get it on Steam". Now its a way to get noticed. You make a game, you fucking [I]love[/I] your game, and you want to sell it. Best digi-store so far is Steam, massive userbase. BUT, how do you get your game noticed a lot in say... a week. Massive advertising? Pushing it to famous youtubers to LP it? No! You shell out 3 full shifts worth of wages from work to Valve and they let you present your idea to their massive-ass userbase. If the millions of people who use steam reach a majority vote that says your game is beast, then Valve sees it and is all "Now how about [I]this[/I] one?" they lookie-look, if they likey-like, then BAM! Onto steam you go. If not? When obviously it didn't impress everyone else as much as it impressed you.
Remember the ring in TF2 that costs the same amount? Wasn't that abused to hell, even though it had a high as hell cost? What many people forget is, that there's going to be shit regardless. There is ALWAYS going to be shit. You can root it out, so that only the richest people can do it, but then there's just going to be fewer. There's still going to be shit regardless. Instead of rooting it out with money, why not root it out with something else?
I actually think that greenlight is going to turn indies away from steam as they pursue other distribution methods while they don't have enough votes. Maybe i'm being hella fucking pessimistic but oh well. It's really early days though so anything could happen.
[QUOTE=Thlis;37560071]I don't understand how you people could possibly see this as reasonable. $100 dollars to possibly have something hosted PER SUBMISSION?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=legolover122;37554409]If 100 dollars is too much then you shouldn't be developing games anyway, seeing as you are probably using things like game maker or rpg maker. Also, [B]Its a one time fee.[/B] You pay it once and you can upload as many games as you want. Seeing as the game can get on steam I say thats one helluva deal.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Philly c;37560529]I actually think that greenlight is going to turn indies away from steam as they pursue other distribution methods while they don't have enough votes. Maybe i'm being hella fucking pessimistic but oh well. It's really early days though so anything could happen.[/QUOTE] I'd take a guess and say that Valve employees are a darn lot harder to please than the Steam Greenlight community, so in fact indies probably have a greater chance overall of getting their games on Steam now. The main potential problem is that giving the community deciding power means the Greenlight votes will be trend-sensitive, I.E currently popular genres will tend to be favored more than others (like zombie games). This sort of undermines the process of constant innovation that otherwise characterizes the indie scene, since it will be harder for a trend-breaking game to gain popularity.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;37561395]I'd take a guess and say that Valve employees are a darn lot harder to please than the Steam Greenlight community, so in fact indies probably have a greater chance overall of getting their games on Steam now. The main potential problem is that giving the community deciding power means the Greenlight votes will be trend-sensitive, I.E currently popular genres will tend to be favored more than others (like zombie games). This sort of undermines the process of constant innovation that otherwise characterizes the indie scene, since it will be harder for a trend-breaking game to gain popularity.[/QUOTE] Steam isn't a home for indie innovation. Steam will have no effect on the innovation of indie games because they've never promoted indie games beyond giving them sales, and Steam has never had any part in an indie games success. Steam just simply gives another channel for a indie game to sell and get even more known than they are. Greenlight's purpose is getting more games on Steam based on what the community wants, it has nothing to do with innovation just popularity. They want titles that sells and holds a certain quality and wants Greenlight to help finding those. The indie innovation innovates itself and uses free channels to promote itself.
You're probably right - I was assuming Valve was attempting to make the independent game development a nice favor when in fact it's more about expanding Steam's game library with more indie-titles. I.E what we've gotten is a more available distribution channel, not a new promotion channel.
[QUOTE=Legend286;37560065]I don't get why people think $100 is so cheap for an indie developer, it's not unless you already have a following, Greenlight was supposed to enable such a following but now it's more of a pay-money-you-might-not-get-back sort of system which completely misses the point of it. Valve should have just employed a couple of their SPUF volunteer moderators to sift through the shit instead, it would cost less and wouldn't discourage single-person developers. And what about free mods, where the fuck do they get their money from?[/QUOTE] Because everyone here has some kind of Waifu complex towards valve as a whole, and are convinced they could never do anything wrong. No, 100$ is not chump change to anyone who wasn't born with a silver spoon in their mouth. 100 dollars is a fucking lot of money when you are a small company without any previous games. Oh, you coughed up 100 bucks to get your game on greenlight. Congratulations! Now watch as it fades into obscurity because nobody has HEARD OF IT. Good job, 100$ wasted. This is pretty much going to keep any small-time indie developers off steam, which is why I, too, say 'fuck off, valve.' You used to be great, but now you're taking the bar and tunneling it into the ground below the wit of spelunker.
[QUOTE=Strongbad;37562613]Because everyone here has some kind of Waifu complex towards valve as a whole, and are convinced they could never do anything wrong. No, 100$ is not chump change to anyone who wasn't born with a silver spoon in their mouth. 100 dollars is a fucking lot of money when you are a small company without any previous games. Oh, you coughed up 100 bucks to get your game on greenlight. Congratulations! Now watch as it fades into obscurity because nobody has HEARD OF IT. Good job, 100$ wasted. This is pretty much going to keep any small-time indie developers off steam, which is why I, too, say 'fuck off, valve.' You used to be great, but now you're taking the bar and tunneling it into the ground below the wit of spelunker.[/QUOTE] Greenlight is not an advertising service. Oh and don't forget, it was free before it was flooded with rubbish.
[QUOTE=danharibo;37562634]Greenlight is not an advertising service. Oh and don't forget, it was free before it was flooded with rubbish.[/QUOTE] Actually, greenlight is pretty much an advertising service. It's the hope of putting your game out on steam and saying "HEY! COME THROW MONEY AT ME SO YOU CAN HAVE FUUUUUUUUUN!" As for it being free before being flooded with rubbish - what's your point? Are you trying to say legitimate developers should be punished because of the trolls?
[QUOTE=Strongbad;37562920]Actually, greenlight is pretty much an advertising service. It's the hope of putting your game out on steam and saying "HEY! COME THROW MONEY AT ME SO YOU CAN HAVE FUUUUUUUUUN!" [/QUOTE] Can't know for sure, but I doubt that's the way Valve sees it. They want to expand their game library, not help indie developers get noticed or earn money. Roughly what dgg said above.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;37562955]Can't know for sure, but I doubt that's the way Valve sees it. They want to expand their game library, not help indie developers get noticed or earn money. Roughly what dgg said above.[/QUOTE] Who gives two shits about how valve sees it? I'm talking about how the DEVELOPER who doesn't have 100$ to blow sees it. I'm saying that they aren't going to be interested in greenlight if they have to waste 100$ at a CHANCE to have a game on steam, and not even a GOOD chance.
[QUOTE=Strongbad;37562613]Because everyone here has some kind of Waifu complex towards valve as a whole, and are convinced they could never do anything wrong. No, 100$ is not chump change to anyone who wasn't born with a silver spoon in their mouth. 100 dollars is a fucking lot of money when you are a small company without any previous games. Oh, you coughed up 100 bucks to get your game on greenlight. Congratulations! Now watch as it fades into obscurity because nobody has HEARD OF IT. Good job, 100$ wasted. This is pretty much going to keep any small-time indie developers off steam, which is why I, too, say 'fuck off, valve.' You used to be great, but now you're taking the bar and tunneling it into the ground below the wit of spelunker.[/QUOTE] 100 bucks is nothing if you have a job, and with that I mean a part-time job. 100 bucks is less than 2 newly released games. 100 bucks is something you have no problem saving up for if you are able to live on your own. [editline]6th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Strongbad;37562999]Who gives two shits about how valve sees it? I'm talking about how the DEVELOPER who doesn't have 100$ to blow sees it. I'm saying that they aren't going to be interested in greenlight if they have to waste 100$ at a CHANCE to have a game on steam, and not even a GOOD chance.[/QUOTE] If it feels like a game of chance to put it on greenlight, then they shouldn't. Their game isn't popular enough, which in many ways can mean that it's not good enough as well. And if the problem is bad advertising then Steam won't help with that either.
I'm far from a die-hard Valve fan and even I don't see the problem with this. 100$ really is nothing for the majority of working people and if an indie dev is passionate enough, he can go work his hours, set aside some of his wages, and get it up within a week or so. I agree the fee should be cut in half at least because, well, 100$ is kinda extreme. But even if it stands, it's not too bad. I'm fairly certain even someone new into the work force, working a minimum wage job, could amass 100$ given a week or so without completely squandering his money. Also, isn't this for accounts overall? As in, if something doesn't make it once, he can spend a month or 2 polishing it up, switching up the presentation, and then re-listing it? It's not a submission fee. It's one time for accounts.
[QUOTE=Thlis;37560071]I don't understand how you people could possibly see this as reasonable. $100 dollars to possibly have something hosted [B]PER SUBMISSION?[/quote] [/B] No, actually, it's a one time account thing. You didn't read. [QUOTE=Thlis;37560071]Fuck off Valve, Even on Microsoft's XBLIG the system is [B]$100 per year[/B][/quote] Again, one time payment. Do you want Valve to make it a yearly thing? [QUOTE=Thlis;37560071]and then you are permitted to upload games. Honestly complaining about the Microsoft Store for Windows 8 and then pulling this sort of shit. And some of you lap this shit up, what are you getting from this? Why are you falling for it?[/quote] $100 is what? One or two days of working a job? If you seriously can't afford a $100 fee, then there is something really wrong with your financial situation (and you should be worrying about feeding yourself rather than submitting games on Greenlight). $100 is nothing compared to the cash you could make off your $5, $10 game. The only people $100 is unreasonable to are people without jobs. [QUOTE=Strongbad;37562613]Because everyone here has some kind of Waifu complex towards valve as a whole, and are convinced they could never do anything wrong. [B]No, 100$ is not chump change[/B] to anyone who wasn't born with a silver spoon in their mouth. 100 dollars is a fucking lot of money when you are a small company without any previous games. Oh, you coughed up 100 bucks to get your game on greenlight. Congratulations! Now watch as it fades into obscurity because nobody has HEARD OF IT. Good job, 100$ wasted. This is pretty much going to keep any small-time indie developers off steam, which is why I, too, say 'fuck off, valve.' You used to be great, but now you're taking the bar and tunneling it into the ground below the wit of spelunker.[/QUOTE] Of course it's not. It's meant to be an investment for those who are serious; if it was chump change, we'd still have people spamming the shit out of Greenlight. Honestly, this is a pretty silly argument. If you make a good game, and at least try to advertise it somewhere (eg. videos, forums, so on), then it'll make its way onto Greenlight. I can guarantee that plenty of indie titles will be making their way onto Greenlight. Again, if you can't afford a $100 one-time payment, then you have worse things to worry about than submitting games on Greenlight.
Uh, what if you wanna submit a free-to-play game?
[QUOTE=Alyx Zark;37563052]Also, isn't this for accounts overall? As in, if something doesn't make it once, he can spend a month or 2 polishing it up, switching up the presentation, and then re-listing it? It's not a submission fee. It's one time for accounts.[/QUOTE] Correct.
[QUOTE=Strongbad;37562999]Who gives two shits about how valve sees it? I'm talking about how the DEVELOPER who doesn't have 100$ to blow sees it. I'm saying that they aren't going to be interested in greenlight if they have to waste 100$ at a CHANCE to have a game on steam, and not even a GOOD chance.[/QUOTE] I agree that $100 is way too much, but my point is I believe the correct approach is that Steam is meant to be a distribution platform for indie devs who have a finished game in their hands, a website and maybe a small following to go with it and has already started selling their game elsewhere, and now seeks new distribution channels. I mean, Greenlight is just a system for letting community handle the filtering of games that may get sold on Steam, it's not meant to work like Kickstarter that helps developers secure funding or suchlike.
[QUOTE=Zero Ziat;37563098]Uh, what if you wanna submit a free-to-play game?[/QUOTE] Email Valve like you would before I would assume. Not much indie about f2p. And if it's f2p with microtransactions inside of it, then, well there is your money.
[QUOTE=danharibo;37552632]A $100 kickstarter would be absurd.[/QUOTE] ChipIn
[QUOTE=dgg;37563119]Email Valve like you would before I would assume. Not much indie about f2p. And if it's f2p with microtransactions inside of it, then, well there is your money.[/QUOTE] Yeah thing is Greenlight also lets you categorize submissions as 'Free To Play' (meaning you don't really have to email them/most likely can't circumvent the $100 toll booth gate even if you wanted to post a free to play game), yet you still gotta pay up. I meant it for games like this [url]http://store.steampowered.com/app/212800/[/url] or (god forbid) TRAUMA.
[QUOTE=Zero Ziat;37563174]Yeah thing is Greenlight also lets you categorize submissions as 'Free To Play', yet you still gotta pay up. I meant it for games like this [url]http://store.steampowered.com/app/212800/[/url] or (god forbid) TRAUMA.[/QUOTE] For those kind of games you'll just have to go "Fuck Steam", and if you still insist that you want it on Steam. Make an email. By the way, f2p =/= free games. f2p games may be free, but free games aren't only f2p. F2P implies that there is content you can buy for real money in the game. Free implies there are no extra costs whatsoever.
[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;37563095]$100 is what? One or two days of working a job? If you seriously can't afford a $100 fee, then there is something really wrong with your financial situation (and you should be worrying about feeding yourself rather than submitting games on Greenlight). $100 is nothing compared to the cash you could make off your $5, $10 game. The only people $100 is unreasonable to are people without jobs.[/QUOTE] I don't think it's unreasonable to have a service where you pay $100 to upload your own games. I do have a problem with a service that decided paying $100 was the best solution to troll games, and the $100 in itself does not guarantee that a working game will get through. Its rather based on a popularity contest where the voters are the same ones that have been uploading those troll games. Furthermore a service which decides that this is the best course of action rather than better moderation does not inspire much confidence.
[QUOTE=Strongbad;37562613]Because everyone here has some kind of Waifu complex towards valve as a whole, and are convinced they could never do anything wrong. No, 100$ is not chump change to anyone who wasn't born with a silver spoon in their mouth. 100 dollars is a fucking lot of money when you are a small company without any previous games. Oh, you coughed up 100 bucks to get your game on greenlight. Congratulations! Now watch as it fades into obscurity because nobody has HEARD OF IT. Good job, 100$ wasted. This is pretty much going to keep any small-time indie developers off steam, which is why I, too, say 'fuck off, valve.' You used to be great, but now you're taking the bar and tunneling it into the ground below the wit of spelunker.[/QUOTE] If you have so little money that you can't afford $100 and you've spent months of your life working for no pay on a video game, then you have a lot more at stake than the $100 listing fee. If your game can't get enough support, then your game probably wouldn't have sold well in the first place. Maybe that means it's time to get a job.
I don't see the problem with 100$. I'm 19 and I have spent my holiday dishwashing at around 6-7 euros an hour (just a little above minimum wage here), 7 hours a day. That's almost 50 euros a day, which would mean I'd have to work 2 days, maybe 3 at max. If you'd work part time, it might take you a week. If you're above 18 (which I figure most of the indie dev crowd belongs to) 100 bucks really isn't all that much, especially if it does get to Steam.
[QUOTE=Thlis;37563214]I don't think it's unreasonable to have a service where you pay $100 to upload your own games. I do have a problem with a service that decided paying $100 was the best solution to troll games, and the $100 in itself does not guarantee that a working game will get through. Its rather based on a popularity contest where the voters are the same ones that have been uploading those troll games. Furthermore a service which decides that this is the best course of action rather than better moderation does not inspire much confidence.[/QUOTE] It's pretty hard for people to want your game, and also have it not be popular. People will vote your game up if they want it - sure, it brings awful things to Steam like Slender: Source, but other games like Project Zomboid are up there too. I don't think Greenlight is meant to be your launch platform, but rather something you apply your game to after you've got it in working order. It's a one time $100 fee that keeps away trolls and kids (and those who don't understand how Greenlight works in the first place).
[QUOTE=dgg;37563209]For those kind of games you'll just have to go "Fuck Steam", and if you still insist that you want it on Steam. Make an email. By the way, f2p =/= free games. f2p games may be free, but free games aren't only f2p. F2P implies that there is content you can buy for real money in the game. Free implies there are no extra costs whatsoever.[/QUOTE]That game I linked on the Steam Store is marked as 'Free To Play', and it's a free singleplayer game with no microtransactions whatsoever.
[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;37563265]It's pretty hard for people to want your game, and also have it not be popular. People will vote your game up if they want it - sure, it brings awful things to Steam like Slender: Source, but other games like Project Zomboid are up there too. I don't think Greenlight is meant to be your launch platform, but rather something you apply your game to after you've got it in working order. It's a one time $100 fee that keeps away trolls and kids (and those who don't understand how Greenlight works in the first place).[/QUOTE] Alright, a one time fee is better, I will give you that, I was mistaken and taken in by this part [quote]Valve has added a $100 fee for submitting [B]a[/B] game[/quote] I am still dubious of it being a good idea in comparison to other marketplaces where actual moderation clears the abhorrent shit, it's tested and then uploaded so that the consumer can buy or not buy the game. Also the $100 artifical barrier must go to Childs Play rather than I don't know Polio treatment for children in Africa.
[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;37563265]I don't think Greenlight is meant to be your launch platform, but rather something you apply your game to after you've got it in working order.[/QUOTE] This. If you have a game that people want to buy but don't have any dosh, then... sell your game to those people who want to buy it, maybe? Though yeah it does kinda suck for f2p folk
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