Mechwarrior Online launch set for this summer; pre-order program nets you rare mechs
73 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Saber15;41207233] Wut.[/QUOTE]
Ripping things out of WoT eh? have you actually ever played world of tanks? seriously? like... really?
explain to me in the plainest of terms (Because I'm obviously retarded as fuck for not noticing this one if there is a "one" to it) how MWO has even begun ripping things from WoT.
MWO is still in development, which was the state MW:LL was in before the license garble. and both suffered from pathetically crap bugs at the get go, and they both still do. and Poptarting happens all the time on MW:LL, and boating is just a happenstance of the mechlab, which took the form of variant flavors of the year in MW:LL.
The only difference now is that one is actually funded and in development.
I actually have a question for you, and do be honest if you please; If MWO were to completely rectify all of its bugs and continue onwards in a positive development (one that I honestly believe is happening even if it isn't the quickest)
would you consider playing it? or would it still be shit in your eyes because "PGI killed MW:LL"?
[QUOTE=Saber15;41207248]PGI also said in their "lol we didn't shut MWLL down i promise" news post that the MWLL devs should send in their resumes. They did. PGI never responded.[/QUOTE]
Chances are that they thumbed through the credentials and weren't impressed, They do have interesting requirements for positions.
Contact is usually made when there is a deal to be made or someone is set for an interview of sorts, That is how it has been for pretty much any job ever.
[QUOTE=O'Neil;41207433]PGI must've not been confident in there own product against a modding team if they had to badger the head honchos over it, lol.[/QUOTE]
Pulling the plug on anything that is similar enough to cause a stir is a common business practice, even if the product is inferior.
Most people couldn't be assed to even get MW:LL running so I seriously doubt they needed to purge it from the area for fear of its dominance.
PGI must've not been confident in there own product against a modding team if they had to badger the head honchos over it, lol.
Rare mechs?
Rare mechs?
Fuck rare. Grab a mech and start shooting shit like it's 1997.
Whats boating?
[QUOTE=InsanePyro;41207670]Whats boating?[/QUOTE]
I I recall correctly, its pretty much stuffing the same weapon and only one weapon into a mech, like lasers for LRMs then going off to war and blowing people up.
[QUOTE=O'Neil;41208463]I I recall correctly, its pretty much stuffing the same weapon and only one weapon into a mech, like lasers for LRMs then going off to war and blowing people up.[/QUOTE]
Some people thinks that putting a lot of LRM, or PPCs make them unstoppable because they can make a lot of damage.
The reality is that strategy makes them more vulnerable, making them hotter, or slower, or with less armor...
[QUOTE=Maestro Fenix;41210477]Some people thinks that putting a lot of LRM, or PPCs make them unstoppable because they can make a lot of damage.
The reality is that strategy makes them more vulnerable, making them hotter, or slower, or with less armor...[/QUOTE]
The tradeoffs you do when you boat the same weapons on a mech are negligable though.
And you can boat weapons safely while still having good armor/speed/etc, you just wont have as much DPS.
Fact of the matter is having a mech become a boat by slapping 6-8 of the same exact weapon (ideally one that is easy to use, and high damage) removes a lot of the strategy involved with going with mixed weapon configs, and makes it more or less a game of just trying to min/max and have the best boating build so you kill things quicker and easier than they can kill you.
Part of the reason why MWLL boating wasn't as big of an issue (even with variants that had boat-like configs, such as many of the Novacat loadouts) was because it was combined arms. Having machine guns and/or low powered AC's along with your loadout was extremely useful because both of those things were very good at killing aircraft and battle armors, so if you boated a bunch of missiles or boated a bunch of lasers you wouldn't be as effective against those threats. Especially since boat-heavy variants such as the Novacat tended to be extremely weak against arm shots, as their entire armament was mounted on the arms.
Again not saying MWLL solved boating entirely, but I definitely think boating was less prevalent and universally effective than it was in previous mechwarrior games, but that's what makes MWO aggrivating is that they didn't really bother to fix the fact that boating plain and simple lets you kill much more efficiently and much easier than choosing not to boat, to the point where if you don't boat you lose on a competitive level assuming all things else are equal.
[QUOTE=KorJax;41211788] Words. [/QUOTE]
Alright, I'm going to start this off stating that I do not boat, and tend to have weapons in a fair-spread about my Mech's chassis when possible. [I]I do not like the idea of non-redundant systems.[/I]
Boating comes about due to a bias more than anything. People think stacking PPCs makes them Godlike, it doesn't. They usually have severe heat issues that go deeper than the fact they probably ditched a few heatsinks to fit said weaponry.
Might I also state that if people want to boat, that is fine and dandy really. They tend to be predictable as fuck and are usually worse off because of it, unless your accuracy is superb you will probably be losing an abysmally large portion of your potential damage-on-target just for having such a bland fit.
If anything there was to be miffed about I'd say it would be some of the Mech scaling and some of the armor values. Or if you want something legitimately worth talking about, getting the MGs to do proper damage.
MW:LL has a more restricted form of Mech access, as you know you choose from preset variants of a Mech that vary the loadout. While there are Mechs that are "Boats by default and design" the more popular trend was using a Mech preset variant that was considered "The best" which, if you're worried about the possibility of stale gameplay, is pretty annoying.
The sacrifices of a "Boat" may seem more pronounced in MW:LL, but you will always end up with a perception of "more balanced" when the game is set to where players cannot customize their own load-outs. And Had a MW4 style Mechlab been implemented, the outcome would be incredibly similar to
what people are upset about in MWO.
People might not be able to literally just stack MLas(s) all over the place, but would eventually find a fitting that is universally found to be "The best", even if the effectiveness of the particular loadout is more of a placebo effect. And the deviation from a perceived "Best fit" in any situation where a pilot wants the quickest win would be very low if at all.
Also, on the former note; As you said...MW:LL did have a large issue with people "boating" one of the Nova-cat Presets, Poptart-PPC'ing constantly, which unlike what you stated, worked quite well against aircraft. I never had issues personally with knocking out hawkmoth(s) and the sort with combined PPC fire... And among other issues; people stacking JJ-Capable mechs onto one another and going into battle like retarded totem poles was also pretty agitating, and happened much more frequently than some say.
While many issues such as those were addressed to some degree, many others always took their place, Such as the "God-mode" exploit of staying within two feet of a repair-bay and dashing in when you get hurt. And various other Meta-game escapades.
There is more gray-area than any actual "better way of handling" the Boating issue. People look for the easiest way of doing anything, if people feel like going into battle with a small laser and a hula-hoop will get them the most kills they'll end up doing it.
And those that get lucky and manage to kill someone who isn't really all that great... Then they just confirmed their own "best fit" is the "best fit" that ever-so-slightly bit in the public's eye.
[I][B]TL:DR;[/B] People ruin gaming experiences in any game regardless of how fun the game might be, confirmation bias creates annoyingly bland combat scenarios, and no game to date in the Mech-warrior / Battletech umbrella has ever fixed the underlying issues within
the Mech-warrior / Battletech combat dynamic and Meta.[/I]
[QUOTE=Lifeslicer;41213860][I][B]TL:DR;[/B] People ruin gaming experiences in any game regardless of how fun the game might be, confirmation bias creates annoyingly bland combat scenarios, and no game to date in the Mech-warrior / Battletech umbrella has ever fixed the underlying issues within
the Mech-warrior / Battletech combat dynamic and Meta.[/I][/QUOTE]
What killed me about Mechwarrior Online was that [I]this was their chance[/I] to fix all that. I personally think that they were far too conservative and stuck far too close to the tabletop values than they should have.
When they first announced Mechwarrior 5, one of the big points they made was that this was not your father's Mechwarrior. They sounded like they were willing to make deviations to the formula to solve some of the problems that have plagued Mechwarrior for decades. When Mechwarrior Online came out, they didn't do any of that. They tweaked some things yes, but it wasn't enough.
Their approach to Mechwarrior Online was, "Okay here's an AC/20. It does 20 damage per turn and weighs 14 tons. How do we adapt this to Mechwarrior Online?" That's the wrong way to approach it. Tabletop should be an inspiration, a guideline at best. They should also take into account what the fluff describes the weapon as, because that's what people want to see. Not arbitrary numbers being true to their arbitrary roots.
How they should have approached this was, "Okay, here's an AC/20. It's known for being the hardest hitting weapon in the game, heavy, cumbersome, and short ranged. What gameplay mechanics and statistics can be put in place to make a weapon that feels and acts like the ultimate fuck you cannon?" That's just one example, but it applies to every weapon in the game. Every [I]mechanic[/I] in the game. There's so much they could have done, but didn't because they were either afraid of what the TT autists would say, or because they themselves over-valued the mechanics they were basing their game off of.
But whatever, I'm over Mechwarrior Online. I might check in on it every couple months to see if they've pulled their heads out of their asses but I'm done. I've had this argument, and many like it in the past and it always fell on deaf ears to the people who mattered. I played the beta from the very beginning when it started last year at the beginning of June, so I was there when the community had the most influence on the game and things were hopeful. I fought the good fight, but it was all for naught.
And for the record, I liked MW:LL but I didn't play MW:LL after it moved to Crysis Wars. I also had all the same problems with it that you did. I pity Mechwarrior Online on its own merits.
And this one of the things that I don´t stop seeing everywhere related with MW:
If it follows the Tabletop, it´s bad.
If the game tries to do something different, it´s bad.
No wonder why MW:O DEVs doesn´t listen at all the people. They make them confuse 24/7.
[QUOTE=Maestro Fenix;41221469]And this one of the things that I don´t stop seeing everywhere related with MW:
If it follows the Tabletop, it´s bad.
If the game tries to do something different, it´s bad.
No wonder why MW:O DEVs doesn´t listen at all the people. They make them confuse 24/7.[/QUOTE]
The people that say following tabletop is stupid are the ones who actually played games like MechWarrior 3, which followed TT almost exactly. It was also a total balance train-wreck.
[editline]28th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lifeslicer;41207285]
Chances are that they thumbed through the credentials and weren't impressed, They do have interesting requirements for positions.
[/QUOTE]
There was nobody more qualified to work on a CryEngine mech game than the guys that made MWLL, which is a CryEngine mech game.
[QUOTE=Saber15;41224421] There was nobody more qualified to work on a CryEngine mech game than the guys that made MWLL, which is a CryEngine mech game. [/QUOTE]
If that was the case then they would have been hired. PGI still have slots open for employ as a matter of the fact, and I seriously doubt that any personal vendetta against the MW:LL devs are in place. That would be silly, think about it.
Also, I was genuinely curious about when you stated MWO was directly ripping things from WoT. If you find it in your time to explain that I'd be appreciative. I've been trying to wrap my head around it for some time.
[QUOTE=Why485;41217944] Whoah damn, words ahoy.[/QUOTE]
Buddy, lemme be the first to remind you what you already know; Battletech is an old franchise with a niche community of hardcore fans. You've also got two large sides in the Mechwarrior division.
People who will rip your dick off and shove it up your ass [B][I]if you so much as touch table values[/I][/B], and people who will rip out your asshole and shove it up your dick if you don't 'balance' table-top values.
And PGI knows this. You, I'm sure, know this. There are a load of people talking crap on them for that just because they're hurt and dissapointed that their favourite franchise didn't do X/Y/Z...
But, as many things with a very tight-group hardcore fanbase, you have to make a choice. And you're fucked if you do and you're fucked if you don't.
Mess this the TT to 'balance' it? Half of the community calls you a traitor who doesn't give two shits about BT or its lore.
Don't mess with TT to 'balance' it? Half of the community call you lazy and incompetant, unwilling to move from 'old and broken rules that just don't work in actual game settings'
I really, really don't like where PGI is stuck. But it is where every MW/BT Dev has been. They told us from the start that they were going TT rules with little to no modification unless absolutely neccisary,
I know that it is going to be difficult as fuck to make sense of that system in a way that translates well to actual gameplay... But i'm not so jaded about it, I've got good feelings for the future of the game.
[QUOTE=Lifeslicer;41229702]being this much of an apologist[/QUOTE]
Yeah we had good feelings too about the future of the game
and then it got EVEN WORSE
PGI make Wargaming look good, and have honestly given me renewed enthusiasm for the mysterious and sometimes frustrating ways of this jolly fuck.
[img]http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/s/l/slavamakarov/Nerf.jpg[/img]
Here is how they should have done balance in MWO
Balance according to what works in the game, and tell tabletop aficionados to fuck off to another game.
This isn't difficult.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41233571]Here is how they should have done balance in MWO
Balance according to what works in the game, and tell tabletop aficionados to fuck off to another game.
This isn't difficult.[/QUOTE]
Or hard
Mechwarrior is not Battletech, Mechwarrior is a game [I][U][B]BASED[/B][/U][/I] on Battletech.
"B-b-but you'll alienate the TT autists!"
So? World of Tanks has shown that even without an install base "lol who gives a fuck about Tanks?" if you make a game that on it's base level is in some way fun it will survive and find a place for itself, pandering to the TT community is just hampering the shit out of this game, as is the unacceptably slow new content arrival and PGI's general incompetence.
And if you want to talk about the ease of these changes, some dev bragged early on that changing values in the game was as simple as editing an xml file and restarting the server. It wouldn't even require a patch. Yet it takes months for obviously underpowered/overpowered weapons to be tuned.
They also do all of their testing in an internal environment, which is why the horrendous netcode issues (lasers losing 50% or more of their damage to the void of the internet) took so painfully long to fix. The games decent, the developers are just super incompetent.
[QUOTE=goon165;41233529]Words.[/QUOTE]
Being an apologist? no. You misunderstand.
Even if I don't like something, someone, or an Idea... If I feel like people are ragging on it for reasons that are bullshit I'll be the first to defend that something/someone/idea. If you're going to be mad at PGI then atleast be mad about something [I]valid.[/I]
Also there is a shit-ton of circlejerk hate that is incredibly annoying, I personally expected better from you guys. Its like; "oh, I don't like this game. Let me tell people how much I hate this game and how shit it is even though other people may like it. Yeah, fuck those guys for liking it right? stop liking things I don't" You don't have to like it, that is your right. But you don't have to be a baby about it.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;41233679]Words.[/QUOTE]
I hate to tell you dude, but the 'Beta' sticker they have going is just a safety net. They won't be doing anything they feel could possibly damage the game, so when an issue like MG damage being shite comes up they watch the values and see if the
complaints die down after a while. When they don't they tend to fix it, and they're careful about it generally speaking.
And Beta testing in MMOs nowadays means just playing the game early and getting just frustrated enough with bugs to bitch about it on the forums en masse. You aren't going to be involved in any explicit testing (Just a heads up, that doesn't ever happen)
They also need to find a better server hosting service from the looks of it.
[QUOTE=Lifeslicer;41233719]Being an apologist? no. You misunderstand.
Even if I don't like something, someone, or an Idea... If I feel like people are ragging on it for reasons that are bullshit I'll be the first to defend that something/someone/idea. If you're going to be mad at PGI then atleast be mad about something [I]valid.[/I]
[/QUOTE]
Balance that doesn't work
new content delivery that is so slow it's bordering on comical
Optimization that makes other CE3 games look reasonable.
PGI being generally underhanded assholes about their competition
None of these are valid complaints to have.
[quote]Also there is a shit-ton of circlejerk hate that is incredibly annoying, I personally expected better from you guys. Its like; "oh, I don't like this game. Let me tell people how much I hate this game and how shit it is even though other people may like it. Yeah, fuck those guys for liking it right? stop liking things I don't" You don't have to like it, that is your right. But you don't have to be a baby about it.[/quote]
I can't even begin
[QUOTE=goon165;41233832]I can't even begin[/QUOTE]
Please do. I'd like to hear it.
The content delivery as of late has been solid. And the game is optimized pretty goddamn well considering I was running it on very very low hardware until recently. And KorJax himself even said that; [QUOTE=KorJax;41201683]PGI wasn't directly involved with MWLL stopping involvment but they might as well be.[/QUOTE]
Which is a lot like saying " They didn't do it, but since they came about and it happened they should be held responsible for it anyway" which is [I]seriously bogus
'Someone has been shitting in the well-water recently, must be geoff because he moved into the neighborhood yesterday and I don't like his face'
As for the balance...
[/I]I don't know how it will turn out, but as long as they're making money and getting yelled at for X/Y/Z and want to continue making said money, they'll be on about fixing it.
I really haven't noticed any real balance issues personally, and I usually toss my mech fits together at a whim.
[QUOTE=Lifeslicer;41233941]
Which is a lot like saying " They didn't do it, but since they came about and it happened they should be held responsible for it anyway" which is [I]seriously bogus[/i]
[/QUOTE]
Attempting to refute Korjax
Who was an actual developer
Ok now you can just leave.
[QUOTE=goon165;41233980]Attempting to refute Korjax
Who was an actual developer
Ok now you can just leave.[/QUOTE]
He himself said they didn't do it, what are you on about?
Also, I know he is a developer, what does that do for him?
Does that give him authority on what is true and what isn't all of the sudden?
I'd also still like to hear an answer to my question if you would please.
[QUOTE=Lifeslicer;41234086]He himself said they didn't do it, what are you on about?
Also, I know he is a developer, what does that do for him?
Does that give him authority on what is true and what isn't all of the sudden?
I'd also still like to hear an answer to my question if you would please.[/QUOTE]
He said they didn't do it by filing a lawsuit, but they certainly had a hand in seeing MW:LL, and possibly Solaris Assault Tech as well, disposed off.
now where should we begin.
[quote]Also there is a shit-ton of circlejerk hate that is incredibly annoying[/quote]
Internet Arguments 101: turn a discussion into an ad hominem argument by calling the prevailing opinion a circle jerk to make their perfectly valid beliefs Diminutive.
[quote]I personally expected better from you guys. Its like; "oh, I don't like this game. Let me tell people how much I hate this game and how shit it is even though other people may like it.[/quote]
You expect people to not voice their opinion on an internet Forum and then get mad when they don't agree with you.
I'm sorry what?
[quote]Yeah, fuck those guys for liking it right? stop liking things I don't"[/quote]
The irony
[quote]You don't have to like it, that is your right. But you don't have to be a baby about it.[/quote]
is palpable
[QUOTE=goon165;41234200]Words and a picture for effect?[/QUOTE]
I don't mind when people voice their opinion, it is when the wield the opinion like a fact that makes me uneasy. If you're off telling people who might be interested in trying it that it is flat out "Shit" and a "Ded game" then you're kind of doing yourself a disservice in that regard.
Saying, "In my personal opinion, I think the game is garbage" or maybe "The game is shit Imo"
Would be much better. I'd still encourage people to find out for themselves, especially if it is a [I]free game[/I].
And I said earlier you don't have to like it, I don't have to like that you don't like it. But there is a difference between disliking it, and going into every thread and shitposting on it. I also don't believe the picture was really did much for you. If you feel your point is strong enough without it, why add a visual aid?
And all you've done is stated that they had a hand in the demise of MW:LL, you have presented no proof whatsoever. I'd enjoy it if you produced some, I personally wouldn't like the idea of supporting underhanded developers, but if all I'm greeted with is
hollow statements then you're doing your side of the argument a disservice as well.
Might I also make you somewhat aware that I don't dislike any of you, nor do I seek to get you pissed off. I'm just honestly slightly irked because I enjoy MWO, I do, honestly. And in truth I'd not make much of a fuss if this forum wasn't full of people I'd enjoy playing MWO with.
I'd rather people just try it and then see what they think than get greeted with "Oh its terribad forever" and never try it because of it.
[QUOTE=Lifeslicer;41234245]I don't mind when people voice their opinion, it is when the wield the opinion like a fact that makes me uneasy. If you're off telling people who might be interested in trying it that it is flat out "Shit" and a "Ded game" then you're kind of doing yourself a disservice in that regard.[/QUOTE]
But it is a bad game.
[QUOTE=Lifeslicer;41234245]
Saying, "In my personal opinion, I think the game is garbage" or maybe "The game is shit Imo"
Would be much better. I'd still encourage people to find out for themselves, especially if it is a [I]free game[/I].[/QUOTE]
I'm not gonna sugar coat it, the Game is fucking terrible and is not worth the space it takes up on your hard drive.
[QUOTE=Lifeslicer;41234245]
And I said earlier you don't have to like it, I don't have to like that you don't like it. But there is a difference between disliking it, and going into every thread and shitposting on it.[/QUOTE]
I would prefer this game never be brought up again, by anyone, ever, but then you have news articles like this proclaiming it DA BAST GAEM EVARRRRRRRRR!!!!1111 when it's not.
[QUOTE=Lifeslicer;41234245]I also don't believe the picture was really did much for you. If you feel your point is strong enough without it, why aid a visual aid?[/QUOTE]
I'm a man of theatrics, I also removed it because FP doesn't like this.
[QUOTE=goon165;41234302]But it is a bad game.
I'm not gonna sugar coat it, the Game is fucking terrible and is not worth the space it takes up on your hard drive.
I would prefer this game never be brought up again, by anyone, ever, but then you have news articles like this proclaiming it DA BAST GAEM EVARRRRRRRRR!!!!1111 when it's not.
I'm a man of theatrics, I also removed it because FP doesn't like this.[/QUOTE]
If you really feel that way about the game that is your right. Makes me sad that more facepunchers won't be joining in on the MWO mechshoots.
But the game will be brought up, and people will still play it, and the game will probably never die because FTP games usually never die. It would be best just to get over it(s) existence honestly,
and even better would be to let people post about it and make threads on it without insta-dumbing it or posting about how the game is crap.
Pretty much at this point we should probably agree to disagree. But I'd appreciate it if the prospect of just letting it alone was atleast humored within
respectable reason.
[QUOTE=Lifeslicer;41234334]If you really feel that way about the game that is your right. Makes me sad that more facepunchers won't be joining in on the MWO mechshoots.
But the game will be brought up, and people will still play it, and the game will probably never die because FTP games usually never die. It would be best just to get over it(s) existence honestly,
and even better would be to let people post about it and make threads on it without insta-dumbing it or posting about how the game is crap.
Pretty much at this point we should probably agree to disagree. But I'd appreciate it if the prospect of just letting it alone was atleast humored within
respectable reason.[/QUOTE]
Getting lonely on that perch up there?
[QUOTE=goon165;41234367]Getting lonely on that perch up there?[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry I don't follow.
I feel like going back and grabbing quotes from the first MWO thread. We were all excited about the fact they said the only stuff that could be bought is cosmetic and a bunch of other things promised.
It would be a bit depressing however.
[QUOTE=Lifeslicer;41229702]If that was the case then they would have been hired.[/QUOTE]
That's some pretty fucking high standards for the company that plastered together the abhorrent mess that was duke forever multiplayer and the absolutely terrible console ports of the game.
Also I guess Crytek themselves hiring some of the team isn't good enough for them either.
Honestly, I don't touch MWO because I barely had fun with it at all, the MWLL shutdown and forced removal of the posts that described what actually happened was the icing on the cake.
[QUOTE=JDB;41234434]I feel like going back and grabbing quotes from the first MWO thread. We were all excited about the fact they said the only stuff that could be bought is cosmetic and a bunch of other things promised.
It would be a bit depressing however.[/QUOTE]
The best bet is to pay more attention to what a developer is doing, not what they say they will do. Not because you shouldn't have faith in them, but because shit happens. You can say one thing today in a business, and then embarrassingly explain to everyone around you that what you proposed isn't feasible. Its just the nature of that sort of thing I suppose.
[editline]29th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bloodshot12;41234476]That's some pretty fucking high standards for the company that plastered together the abhorrent mess that was duke forever multiplayer and the absolutely terrible console ports of the game.
Also I guess Crytek themselves hiring some of the team isn't good enough for them either.[/QUOTE]
Being outsourced and then cobbling something foreign together to get a paycheck is a lot different from working on something you're passionate about.
Also, that may be one of the reasons why they weren't hired, as those with credentials of actual worth were already accepted into CryTek. Whilst those whose did not, were not, and thusly would not be by PGI either.
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