• If Linux is the future then the future is awful or How To Install Linux Alongside Windows
    239 replies, posted
The linux codebase is far too unstable to be considered a proper OS. It belongs in the lab and nowhere else. I don't trust an OS where every application you work on is at the mercy of some asshole who thinks that package X needs to be updated for no reason even though it breaks package YY, ZZ and XX. Edited: [quote]Windows does that too, actually, and the solution for both OSs is simple: Turn off automatic updates. That way your OS doesn't break everything downloading some stupid, inane bullshit update that fixes some obscure feature you didn't even know you had at the cost of breaking the ones you use daily, while at the same time you can still manually install updates that actually do fix something you need fixed.[/quote] I have very, very rarely seen a windows update break an application the way linux does. I have run MS-DOS applications under Windows XP SP3. That's well over 20 years of backwards compatibility. I have Linux applictions (gtkams ability to download from my old Olympus camera is one example) that break if they are a year old. Every linux box I owned since downloadable updates became available had to be frozen in time otherwise shit would slowly break. You can run it on a server because yeah it has no overhead and it's a shit ton better than Windows Server but you have to watch it like a fucking baby. I have been far more productive working with a proprietary Unix distro which has not seen a free update in almost 10 years. [img]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/ballsandy/Supercomputer_Master_Race_by_Claidheam_Righ.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=MIPS;39633174]The linux codebase is far too unstable to be considered a proper OS. It belongs in the lab and nowhere else. I don't trust an OS where every application you work on is at the mercy of some asshole who thinks that package X needs to be updated for no reason even though it breaks package YY, ZZ and XX.[/QUOTE] The thing is though, if Linux is so unstable why is it used on servers?
Like seriously he should be a cracked writer, and even then he'd be a bad Cracked writer [QUOTE]Even worse, if you right click and go into the desktop settings you'll notice that Ubuntu has no decent screensavers either.[/QUOTE] okay no say whatever you want about Ubuntu but it has the best friggin screensavers and you should respect that
[QUOTE=latin_geek;39633207]Like seriously he should be a cracked writer, and even then he'd be a bad Cracked writer okay no say whatever you want about Ubuntu but it has the best friggin screensavers and you should respect that[/QUOTE] [i]bouncingcows[/i]
The main blockers left for Desktop Linux are; 1) Lack of familiar software suites like Adobe CS whatever number they're up to now. 2) The fact that it doesn't come pre-installed with your computer, so anyone who's not good with computers will can end up having a hard time to set up (bigger distros usually work out of the box (disk?) but there's still the odd GPU or WiFi chipset that doesn't play ball, older GPUs are especially problematic but they're only getting older). 3) Ubuntu 3) The fact nobody has the slightest clue about operating systems in general, yet feel the need to comment about it or say things like "It didn't work" without even filing a bug report.
[QUOTE=Wiggles;39632644]Even if you dislike the article you can't disagree that it raises a very good point: if Linux is to become the future platform for PC gaming, then popular distributions like Ubuntu and the applications that we use everyday need to become much [i]much[/i] more user friendly.[/QUOTE] I strongly agree, however, the good thing about Linux is that there are so much distros so you can change to whatever you want. In this case: Debian is a good choice if you don't like crashes.
[QUOTE=MIPS;39633174]The linux codebase is far too unstable to be considered a proper OS. It belongs in the lab and nowhere else. I don't trust an OS where every application you work on is at the mercy of some asshole who thinks that package X needs to be updated for no reason even though it breaks package YY, ZZ and XX.[/QUOTE] Windows does that too, actually, and the solution for both OSs is simple: Turn off automatic updates. That way your OS doesn't break everything downloading some stupid, inane bullshit update that fixes some obscure feature you didn't even know you had at the cost of breaking the ones you use daily, while at the same time you can still manually install updates that actually do fix something you need fixed. Fuck you Windows Update... [QUOTE=Genericenemy;39633204]The thing is though, if Linux is so unstable why is it used on servers?[/QUOTE] Because it has far less holes in it than Windows does. Also, lower overhead.
[QUOTE=danharibo;39633386]The main blockers left for Desktop Linux are; 2) The fact that it doesn't come pre-installed with your computer, so anyone who's not good with computers will can end up having a hard time to set up (bigger distros usually work out of the box (disk?) but there's still the odd GPU or WiFi chipset that doesn't play ball, older GPUs are especially problematic but they're only getting older).[/QUOTE] My town has OpenSUSE installed on every PC they bought or installed to reduce cost, and it introduces people to Linux.
Though in some way hes right, Steam for Linux being only for Ubuntu (without some horrible hacking) is pretty retarded, specially as Ubuntu is the worst Linux distro right now And its not like Linux is ever gonna become mainstream with how its going right now
[QUOTE=don818;39632534]Or you can use a non retarded distro like Debian.[/QUOTE] Ubuntu is based on debian, and is definitely a lot harder to set up than ubuntu is... I would reccomend either a ubuntu derivative like Mint or K/Xubuntu, or Crunchbang, which works quite nicely. [editline]18th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=ijyt;39632739]Or you could stick to Windows, get out of your anti-capitalism edgy phase, and enjoy something that just fucking works.[/QUOTE] Except windows doesn't [I]just fucking work[/I] for a lot of people, including me. Sound drivers and wireless drivers are both an absolute pain in the ass on windows, while all it takes to get those in Ubuntu or a derivative (if it isn't already working) is to sudo apt-get update, or use the Hardware drivers panel. [editline]18th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Tobba;39633404]Though in some way hes right, Steam for Linux being only for Ubuntu (without some horrible hacking) is pretty retarded, specially as Ubuntu is the worst Linux distro right now And its not like Linux is ever gonna become mainstream with how its going right now[/QUOTE] Except it isn't in any way, it's just [I]officially[/I] supported on [B]Ubuntu[/B] and [B] Derivatives[/B]. You can install it straight away in almost any other desktop environment and it will work straight off the bat, notifications and everything. [editline]18th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=saming;39633388]I strongly agree, however, the good thing about Linux is that there are so much distros so you can change to whatever you want. In this case: Debian is a good choice if you don't like crashes.[/QUOTE] Debian is a good choice if you want to be using 'mature' packages, a whole lot of them are out of date unless you're using Sid. [editline]18th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=MIPS;39633174]The linux codebase is far too unstable to be considered a proper OS. It belongs in the lab and nowhere else. I don't trust an OS where every application you work on is at the mercy of some asshole who thinks that package X needs to be updated for no reason even though it breaks package YY, ZZ and XX.[/QUOTE] And this is why package managers exist :) [editline]18th February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=The golden;39632808]While there are a few distros which are not bad, I really wouldn't wish Linux on even my biggest enemy. It's nice that new programs like Steam are adding Linux support, but the OS itself is still very primitive.[/QUOTE] Mind explaining how it's [I]primitive?[/I]
[QUOTE=Tobba;39633404]Though in some way hes right, Steam for Linux being only for Ubuntu (without some horrible hacking) is pretty retarded, specially as Ubuntu is the worst Linux distro right now And its not like Linux is ever gonna become mainstream with how its going right now[/QUOTE] Steam is running fine on my mint install thank you very much.
Fucking read before you crap on your computer ffs! Where the hell do these guys find people like this, I mean, are they seriously on the PC Gaming blogging "industry"? I bet they're using 12.10 thinking that this is a stable maintained release. I'm using xUbuntu 12.04 for working on a nearly daily basis, I had none of these issues, my notebook gets weeks of uptime easily. (that is, when I don't forget it unplugged, but thats another story!) [QUOTE=MIPS;39633174]The linux codebase is far too unstable to be considered a proper OS. It belongs in the lab and nowhere else. I don't trust an OS where every application you work on is at the mercy of some asshole who thinks that package X needs to be updated for no reason even though it breaks package YY, ZZ and XX.[/QUOTE] Uh, I know I'll sound like Stallman here, but the "Linux Codebase" is just the kernel itself. A stable, free and open one at that. Also you're free to build your own packages or not update em' if you wish, you can even bother the devs on IRC when necessary, most won't mind it! Windows has its uses, Hell, I'm using it right now, but Linux is far from "too unstable", its actually the single most scaleable and stable OS out there.
[QUOTE=JohnnyOnFlame;39633552]Uh, I know I'll sound like Stallman here, but the "Linux Codebase" is just the kernel itself. A stable, free and open one at that. Also you're free to build your own packages or not update em' if you wish, you can even bother the devs on IRC when necessary, most won't mind it![/QUOTE] Well you're also free to not upgrade, I'm not sure what the default is on Ubuntu but last time I used it you had to press a button to update.
Ubuntu is very, very easy to use; not once did I have to use the terminal when installing Ubuntu, installing Steam, or installing the non-free graphics drivers from AMD. I do choose to use the terminal where ever I can as its where I feel comfortable. Ubuntu is installed on my mothers laptop and even she despite her technology illiteracy finds it easy to use. I remember using Ubuntu back in the days of 6.10 (9 years old) and despite having awful wireless drivers I managed to install and operate it just fine. [QUOTE=MIPS;39633174]The linux codebase is far too unstable to be considered a proper OS. It belongs in the lab and nowhere else. I don't trust an OS where every application you work on is at the mercy of some asshole who thinks that package X needs to be updated for no reason even though it breaks package YY, ZZ and XX.[/QUOTE] I beg to differ. You have abiviously had some bad experience due to your own idoicy and so have decided to blame the Linux codebase. I run many Linux desktops and servers without much a problem. [video=youtube;yVpbFMhOAwE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVpbFMhOAwE[/video] The rest of the world disagrees with you MIPS.
I don't particularly like the interaction with the scroll bar in Ubuntu.
I used the Wubi installer for 12.04 Xubuntu just to try the Wubi thing out since so many people seem to hate it, I never once got an error besides when steam told me to update my video drivers which I had forgot to even install. [editline]18th February 2013[/editline] (Yes, just to get a TF2 item)
[QUOTE=MasterFen007;39632276]The easiest mistake you can make if you decide to get Ubuntu is using the Windows installer. It installs it via a virtual ext4 partition in your Windows partition, and Linux NTFS drivers are patchy to say the least. I find if you were to dual boot PROPERLY none of this would occur. A-and y'know, by using a better distro like Mint as well.[/QUOTE] Do you run Steam games in Mint? Also, which flavor do you use?
Lubuntu is like Ubuntu but with a far superior minimalist Windows-like UI.
I used Wubi to install Lubuntu (can't stand Unity in Ubuntu) and it ran perfectly fine. Yeah I know it's not a good idea to use it but it ran perfectly fine for testing Steam games and GW2 in Wine.
[QUOTE=TextQUAKE;39633680]Lubuntu is like Ubuntu but with a far superior minimalist Windows-like UI.[/QUOTE] Pretty much all of the other versions of Ubuntu look more like Windows that Ubuntu does.
A while ago I installed Fedora on an old laptop and everything worked right off the bat. Then I reinstalled Windows XP and nothing worked any more. But that doesn't mean Windows is a terrible OS.
[QUOTE=The golden;39633695]I'll give you the best example I can think of and something which continuously bothers me as a casual Linux user. There is no software installation standard. Many distros use the software repository system which is all fine and dandy right up until the point where you want something that is not in the repository. The second best option is a easy to use .deb file, the third best being some source links you can add to your repository source list to get the file yourself, and the worst BY FAR is getting the raw files yourself and having to make and/or compile them. The latter makes up the majority of third-party software for Linux. It's extremely frustrating to find and install all of the dependencies, figure the fuck out how to install those, and then actually install the program in the first place. For a casual Linux user it's a complete joke. Windows gets the .exe or .msi file which can have your program installed in as little as 3 mouse clicks. The only thing Linux has close to that is a .deb file and it's not frequently used at all. The only people I can recommend Linux to are people who just want to surf the net and do word processing. Trying to do anything else on Linux is like jumping through hoops of fire while juggling chainsaws.[/QUOTE] It's very rare that you come across something that isn't in the software repositories on a day to day basis. Just about everything that isn't in the repositories will come as a .deb and sometimes even an .rpm for fedora and friends, it's rare that anyone would have to build something that /isn't/ a library from source.
[QUOTE=danharibo;39633697]Pretty much all of the other versions of Ubuntu look more like Windows that Ubuntu does.[/QUOTE] The current version of Ubuntu looks like a weird shitty Mac/Gnome Frankenstein to me honestly. Everything takes up about twice as much space as it needs to.
[QUOTE=The golden;39633695]I'll give you the best example I can think of and something which continuously bothers me as a casual Linux user. There is no software installation standard. Many distros use the software repository system which is all fine and dandy right up until the point where you want something that is not in the repository. The second best option is a easy to use .deb file, the third best being some source links you can add to your repository source list to get the file yourself, and the worst BY FAR is getting the raw files yourself and having to make and/or compile them. The latter makes up the majority of third-party software for Linux. It's extremely frustrating to find and install all of the dependencies, figure the fuck out how to install those, and then actually install the program in the first place. For a casual Linux user it's a complete joke. Windows gets the .exe or .msi file which can have your program installed in as little as 3 mouse clicks. The only thing Linux has close to that is a .deb file and it's not frequently used at all. The only people I can recommend Linux to are people who just want to surf the net and do word processing. Trying to do anything else on Linux is like jumping through hoops of fire while juggling chainsaws.[/QUOTE] .run? Debian also isn't the only distribution, by the way. there are RPM packages and lots of other ones. But I do agree that it's fragmented. I would hardly call it [I]primitive.[/I] You're supposed to rely on your distributions repos whenever you can for a lot of reasons, and installing things with .run files isn't hard.
[QUOTE=The golden;39633695]I'll give you the best example I can think of and something which continuously bothers me as a casual Linux user. There is no software installation standard. Many distros use the software repository system which is all fine and dandy right up until the point where you want something that is not in the repository. The second best option is a easy to use .deb file, the third best being some source links you can add to your repository source list to get the file yourself, and the worst BY FAR is getting the raw files yourself and having to make and/or compile them. The latter makes up the majority of third-party software for Linux. It's extremely frustrating to find and install all of the dependencies, figure the fuck out how to install those, and then actually install the program in the first place. For a casual Linux user it's a complete joke. Windows gets the .exe or .msi file which can have your program installed in as little as 3 mouse clicks. The only thing Linux has close to that is a .deb file and it's not frequently used at all. The only people I can recommend Linux to are people who just want to surf the net and do word processing. Trying to do anything else on Linux is like jumping through hoops of fire while juggling chainsaws.[/QUOTE] The software repository is there for ease of use and for security purposes; even if something is not in the repos it can easily be installed. Installing .deb packages on Ubuntu and Mint from third party sources is [B]very[/B] easy, simply download the .deb and execute. Executing the .deb will open the software manager and begin installing (Software Center). I've had to compile software more often on Windows than I have on Linux (Almost everything is in the repos). You have obviously had a bad experience with Linux because of your own idiocy and so choose to blame Linux.
You've had to compile software more often on Windows than on Linux?
[QUOTE=Olas;39633821]You've had to compile software more often on Windows than on Linux?[/QUOTE] I do, every library I use on Windows has to be built from source. On Linux the pre-built version in the repositories work fine.
But is that for developer things or normal everyday computer use?
I installed Ubuntu to get the tf2 item, and I have loads of Linux experience and Ubuntu is a piece of shit. Anyone tried installing the Nvidia driver on 12.10? It literally breaks your desktop unless you do some command line bullshit.
[QUOTE=Olas;39633850]But is that for developer things or normal everyday computer use?[/QUOTE] Does it matter? You rarely have to build anything for 'normal everyday use' on Linux, nor do you on windows. Windows just makes it harder for developers.
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