• John Carmack: “it's time to start pushing forward on higher frame-rate, lower latency”
    34 replies, posted
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;42824054]I was under the impression that a big part of it was actually the GPUs themselves not being built with low latency in mind. I think one of the examples he used in a keynote speech a few years ago was something to the effect of "it takes less time for a TCP packet to get to the other side of the world then it does for a pixel to change color on your screen!" [editline]10th November 2013[/editline] The hardware for these networks was built from the ground up with low latency in mind. The components used in gaming are not always so.[/QUOTE] yeah uh no, unless he's talking about a direct line connection in a vacuum it's still not even remotely possible ping to australia, for example, from the east coast of the united states is over 300-400 ms. if it took that long for your graphics card to send a frame to your monitor, it'd be completely impossible to use a computer.
[QUOTE=paul simon;42826060]No we aren't, we're not even doing raytracing yet. We're just using shitty tricks that have their limits. We're so far from perfecting graphics, and we're probably not gonna have the machines to pull of proper light simulation in real time for the next then years or so. [editline]11th November 2013[/editline] Heck, even proper motionblur is a bitch to pull off. [editline]11th November 2013[/editline] And then there's volumetrics, smoke and fluid simulations, breakable/deformable objects etc etc.[/QUOTE] Not to mention having materials actually react in every way to everything around them.
[QUOTE=Odellus;42828500]yeah uh no, unless he's talking about a direct line connection in a vacuum it's still not even remotely possible ping to australia, for example, from the east coast of the united states is over 300-400 ms. if it took that long for your graphics card to send a frame to your monitor, it'd be completely impossible to use a computer.[/QUOTE] A couple things: Firstly, I accidentally misquoted him; he actually said latency from the East Coast to Europe (In my case the ping is about 85 ms from Philly to London, which would mean the latency would be 42.5 ms) Second, this is how he tested: [quote]You’re probably familiar with the use of ping to determine connection response time, but that is a two way communication — the actual time to send data is half of your ping. Ping can easily be somewhere south of 100ms with a reasonably good connection, so it might take 50ms or less to send your packet. Getting a pixel on a screen is a much more convoluted process. Carmack used a desktop program to cycle colors on his display each time a button was pressed. Using a 240fps camera, he was able to count the frames to determine how long it took the button press to become a pixel on the screen. Using his Sony-made head mounted display, Carmack calculated the latency to be over 70ms. That could be easily longer than the time to send a packet across the world. ...Not all LCDs will be as poor as the Sony device John Carmack tested, but 40-50ms is about as good as LCDs can do. If you ping a faraway server, and divide by two, you could find that you too can outrun your pixels with the Internet. [url]http://www.geek.com/chips/john-carmack-explains-why-its-faster-to-send-a-packet-to-europe-than-a-pixel-to-your-screen-1487079/[/url][/quote] This is for an LCD panel. For a CRT, these timings are many times lower. I merely misunderstood what he meant, it really isn't about the hardware other than the display. And Carmack has always been trying to push for low latency, especially with his crusade for the Oculus Rift.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;42829976]A couple things: Firstly, I accidentally misquoted him; he actually said latency from the East Coast to Europe (In my case the ping is about 85 ms from Philly to London, which would mean the latency would be 42.5 ms) Second, this is how he tested: This is for an LCD panel. For a CRT, these timings are many times lower. I merely misunderstood what he meant, it really isn't about the hardware other than the display. And Carmack has always been trying to push for low latency, especially with his crusade for the Oculus Rift.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/input_lag.htm[/url] [url]http://i.imgur.com/mZaeZor.jpg[/url]
[QUOTE=Odellus;42830751][url]http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/input_lag.htm[/url] [url]http://i.imgur.com/mZaeZor.jpg[/url][/QUOTE] A lot of those are way too big; any longer than 16ms is going to give people a bad time.
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