[QUOTE=kanesenpai~;40540427]Jesus christ, no wonder gamers think Spec Ops is the pinnacle of storytelling achievement, they have no fucking taste.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=power-mad;40539567]Stop disliking what I like![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=radek;40537621]Get from point A to point B, shoot stuff, repeat 20 times.[/QUOTE]
The story is amazing though.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;40540422]I thought Infinite's gameplay to be a chore to the point where I really don't want to play it anymore, but I digress[/QUOTE]
Yeah the way they increased the effectiveness of weapons worked as a double edged blade. Enemies were no longer annoying bullet sponges but you used vigors far less, which are the most interesting aspects of the game's combat.
[QUOTE=kanesenpai~;40538044]just watch Apocalypse Now again or read Heart of Darkness again
they do the same thing without resorting to cheap viewer/reader guilt tactics[/QUOTE]
heart of darkness???
how is it anything like heart of darkness
afaik spec ops doesnt explore colonialism in any significant way
[QUOTE=thisispain;40540556]heart of darkness???
how is it anything like heart of darkness
afaik spec ops doesnt explore colonialism in any significant way[/QUOTE]
I guess it's less HoD and more Apocalypse Now, the connections to Heart of Darkness are more superficial like naming the villain after the author and having the basic storyline of protagonist being sent to search for higher-up gone mad.
[QUOTE=Super Muffin;40539950]
tl;dr: Internet said it's Apocalypse Now, gonna say watch Apocalypse Now[/QUOTE]
Actually I've seen the movie several times and read the book once. On top of that, the developers themselves have said Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now were inspirations for the story and the overall theme of man in conflict with himself is taken straight from both properties.
The one thing Spec Ops does differently is focus on PTSD and the gradual degradation of ones mental state. This would be cool and is, to be fair, a novel story developement compared to it's contemporaries like CoD and Battlefield, but it's delivered so clumsily and obviously that it just feels forced. The game forces you into situations where you have to be a bad person then calls you a bad person. It also does it in a very contrived, gamey fashion that takes you out of the experience. The infamous [sp]mortar scene is a good example of this. If you try to just shoot the enemy soldiers you get overwhelmed by infinite respawning monster closets and aimbots tuned to 11 but if you use the mortar they all die. At the end of this setpiece you have to drop a mortar on a bridge to wipe out a Humvee. There is no other way to go about doing this part, even though not even an hour later you take out several Humvees on foot. I get what they were trying to do with this part but it could have been done much better[/sp]
Maybe I came down too hard on the game in my opening post. The gunplay isn't terrible, it's just incredibly mediocre and derivative. The story is better than it's CoD and Battlefield counterparts, but still not the incredible experience people say it is. For $7.50 I guess it's hard to be disappointed but I'd still say Apocalypse Now is a far more entertaining 2-3 hours than 4 hours of Spec Ops telling me I'm a bad person for playing their game.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;40540617]
The one thing Spec Ops does differently is focus on PTSD and the gradual degradation of ones mental state. This would be cool and is, to be fair, a novel story developement compared to it's contemporaries like CoD and Battlefield, but it's delivered so clumsily and obviously that it just feels forced. The game forces you into situations where you have to be a bad person then calls you a bad person. It also does it in a very contrived, gamey fashion that takes you out of the experience. The infamous [sp]mortar scene is a good example of this. If you try to just shoot the enemy soldiers you get overwhelmed by infinite respawning monster closets and aimbots tuned to 11 but if you use the mortar they all die. At the end of this setpiece you have to drop a mortar on a bridge to wipe out a Humvee. There is no other way to go about doing this part, even though not even an hour later you take out several Humvees on foot. I get what they were trying to do with this part but it could have been done much better[/sp][/QUOTE]
Totally agree. The [sp]mortar[/sp] scene is so hamfisted and immersion breaking that it loses all effect it's supposed to have on the player because of the infinite respawning enemies. [sp]Lugo's death[/sp] did a much better job of this, and I wish there were more scenes like it.
Basically, Spec Ops constantly betrays its own message at every corner. A game is supposed to tell me I'm bad for killing these guys when it rewards me with Achievements/Trophies for killing X amount of bad guys or other combat-related commendations as well as giving you a slow-mo effect when you headshot an enemy to make you feel more "cool" and "badass". I'm glad they at least [I]tried[/I] to do something different, but it all falls so flat that it should barely be held up as an example of great storytelling in a video game.
You want a recent modern game with fantastic storytelling? [I]Deadly Premonition.[/I] I'm not fucking kidding with that, either, that game does a fantastic job.
[QUOTE=kanesenpai~;40540667]Totally agree. The [sp]mortar[/sp] scene is so hamfisted and immersion breaking that it loses all effect it's supposed to have on the player because of the infinite respawning enemies. [sp]Lugo's death[/sp] did a much better job of this, and I wish there were more scenes like it.
Basically, Spec Ops constantly betrays its own message at every corner. A game is supposed to tell me I'm bad for killing these guys when it rewards me with Achievements/Trophies for killing X amount of bad guys or other combat-related commendations as well as giving you a slow-mo effect when you headshot an enemy to make you feel more "cool" and "badass". I'm glad they at least [I]tried[/I] to do something different, but it all falls so flat that it should barely be held up as an example of great storytelling in a video game.
You want a recent modern game with fantastic storytelling? [I]Deadly Premonition.[/I] I'm not fucking kidding with that, either, that game does a fantastic job.[/QUOTE]
i agree on the Deadly Premonition part so is my taste shit or good?? how about you shut the fuck up about "taste"
[QUOTE=superstepa;40539471][sp] That is kind of the point of the game [/sp]
-edit-
[sp] No I am serious, there is even a part where the radioman says "There were 2000 (Don't remember the actual number) people alive in Dubai. How many do you think are alive now? [/sp][/QUOTE]
That is still a dumb thing to say, the game tries to be all serious and about how fucked up war is and how it changes people, even trained soldiers. But then you just kill off ludicrous amounts of enemies which does not fit the theme and tone that it strifes for. At some point it felt like a shooting gallery.
[QUOTE=LeonS;40541167]i agree on the Deadly Premonition part so is my taste shit or good?? how about you shut the fuck up about "taste"[/QUOTE]
Geezus, calm down. You're taking everyone a bit too aggressively in discussion about this game.
Are we still debating about whether or not a 5€ game is worth that much money/is good or bad?
[QUOTE=RichyZ;40542710]1~ hour of minimum wage work is really important![/QUOTE]
Not even that. I can find that in a parking lot.
What am I saying can... I already did :v:
[QUOTE=kanesenpai~;40538044]just watch Apocalypse Now again or read Heart of Darkness again
they do the same thing without resorting to cheap viewer/reader guilt tactics[/QUOTE]
It's better as a deconstruction of games than it is a remake of heart of darkness.
Get it for 75% off, play it on easy in an afternoon. It's worth it for that as it is.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;40542815]It's better as a deconstruction of games than it is a remake of heart of darkness.
Get it for 75% off, play it on easy in an afternoon. It's worth it for that as it is.[/QUOTE]
But it doesn't "deconstruct" games at all.
[QUOTE=rosthouse;40538150]For that price, you can join one of the biggest "discussion" in gaming right now. Some people love it for the story, some hate it for it. Some think the mechanics are dull, others claim they have to be dull.
Play through it without knowing much of the story, and start discussing after you finished it, it's worth it for that alone :v:[/QUOTE]
The developers said that they wanted to game to be fun outright. Anyone saying "it's supposed to play like a boring game," is just justifying it to themselves. It's a good experience, but gameplay wise it's just average.
[QUOTE=zeldar;40540445]Yeah the way they increased the effectiveness of weapons worked as a double edged blade. Enemies were no longer annoying bullet sponges but you used vigors far less, which are the most interesting aspects of the game's combat.[/QUOTE]
the vigors were far from interesting
most of them were just "throw the thing or lay the trap" with the exception of the bullet absorbing thing and undertow/bucking bronco. there were no utility vigors in bioshock infinite at all, which would have significantly increased the fun factor of the combat
[QUOTE=Raidyr;40542842]But it doesn't "deconstruct" games at all.[/QUOTE]
Yes it does, one of the main themes is about escapism vs reality for both the avatar and the gamer.
[editline]5th May 2013[/editline]
I guess it's open for interpretation though by admittance by the developers.
[editline]5th May 2013[/editline]
In other words I've had this argument like 20 times before on this forum and I don't feel like doing that again right now so my final word will be "Just pick it up for $8 bucks if you wanted to know what the discussion was about, $8 bucks is hardly anything so if you think it's shit you barely lost anything."
[editline]5th May 2013[/editline]
play it and draw your own conclusions its more fun that way
I for one found the gameplay really fun
I liked the gameplay of Spec Ops The Line... I mean, it wasn't mind-blowing but I found the gunplay to be better than some other shooters I could name...
[editline]5th May 2013[/editline]
In my opinion it's a good buy for $7.49.
As someone said on the previous page, what are some TPS games that aren't "generic bad eugh not fun" like spec ops? I've yet to see one named.
The gameplay wasn't the best thing I've ever seen, but it was pretty fun. It did what it was trying to.
And story wise, it's fucking brilliant. It makes such a fucking amazing point.
[QUOTE=The very best;40539288]Wait, so you guys hate a genuinely decent game with an above average story because it's over hyped?
christ you're worse than the people that buy in to the hype in the first place.[/QUOTE]
it's a shitty game with horrible gameplay and a braindead, done a million times before story that appeals to pretentious video gamers who've never seen any other war media and think portraying war negatively and it's horrors is a new and unique thing
not worth a cent.
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;40543865]As someone said on the previous page, what are some TPS games that aren't "generic bad eugh not fun" like spec ops? I've yet to see one named.[/QUOTE]
resident evil 4
It's a steal for the price, just don't expect groundbreaking gameplay.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;40543865]As someone said on the previous page, what are some TPS games that aren't "generic bad eugh not fun" like spec ops? I've yet to see one named.[/QUOTE]
Dead Space
Max Payne
Resident Evil 4
[QUOTE=Cone;40544148]Dead Space
Max Payne
Resident Evil 4[/QUOTE]
dead space and resident evil 4 have restricted, tank-like controls to make the game tense because they're horror games. max payne is an action movie. that shit's way different from spec ops' universe that is grounded in reality
i'd put those games you mentioned (except re4) on my "cool games list" above spec ops, sure, but they're really not the same kind of game so i think they're unfit for comparison
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;40544241]dead space and resident evil 4 have restricted, tank-like controls to make the game tense because they're horror games. max payne is an action movie. that shit's way different from spec ops' universe that is grounded in reality
i'd put those games you mentioned (except re4) on my "cool games list" above spec ops, sure, but they're really not the same kind of game so i think they're unfit for comparison[/QUOTE]
you only said you wanted third person shooter games that weren't boring, you didn't say they'd have to be overly realistic. besides, a large portion of Spec Ops is about the disconnect between gameplay and plot - the majority of the mechanics don't really make sense if you think about them, like regenerating health, or miraculously finding ammo on executed enemies for guns they couldn't have had. Spec Ops is just as unrealistic as Max Payne, they just have combat rolls instead of shootdodges and red jelly on your face instead of pills.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;40544241]max payne is an action movie. that shit's way different from spec ops' universe that is grounded in reality[/QUOTE]
Three men killing hundreds, possibly over a thousand soldiers individually, [sp]most of which are U.S. troops, as well as singlehandedly fucking over the entire city of Dubai and its people.[/sp] Even as a deconstruction and a footnote on PTSD in gaming, it does still use some of the classic action movie tropes solely to betray your expectations, so you can't say Spec Ops is wholly reality. About as real as Max Payne, even.
[QUOTE=Cone;40544283]you only said you wanted third person shooter games that weren't boring, you didn't say they'd have to be overly realistic. besides, a large portion of Spec Ops is about the disconnect between gameplay and plot - the majority of the mechanics don't really make sense if you think about them, like regenerating health, or miraculously finding ammo on executed enemies for guns they couldn't have had. Spec Ops is just as unrealistic as Max Payne, they just have combat rolls instead of shootdodges and red jelly on your face instead of pills.[/QUOTE]
well yeah i guess my question was kinda vague and awful
but with that logic about the disconnection between narrative and gameplay can be used on basically any game that tries to have a negative viewpoint on killing ever.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;40544241]dead space and resident evil 4 have restricted, tank-like controls to make the game tense because they're horror games. max payne is an action movie. that shit's way different from spec ops' universe that is grounded in reality
i'd put those games you mentioned (except re4) on my "cool games list" above spec ops, sure, but they're really not the same kind of game so i think they're unfit for comparison[/QUOTE]
Bad controls for bullshit tension reasons is no excuse, even the developers of Dead Space said so themselves.
[QUOTE=Novangel;40544421]Bad controls for bullshit tension reasons is no excuse, even the developers of Dead Space said so themselves.[/QUOTE]
I don't see a problem with "bad controls" if they somehow add to the overall experience and entertainment.
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