• Frostbite 3 focus on being a better toolset, not just prettier graphics
    41 replies, posted
[url]http://www.shacknews.com/article/78548/frostbite-3-focus-on-being-a-better-toolset-not-just[/url]
obviously they saw that if they wanted to pump out a modern shooter every 2 years they needed to improve their dev tools and pipeline, cool. explains why the game looks literally exactly the same as BF3, the work was all behind the scenes just fucking release mod tools so people can actually make your shit game interesting
How about giving us some of those tools?
they aren't simple enough for plebs like you
[QUOTE=The golden;40145724]What was that? Sorry I can't hear you over the sound of all this DLC[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/O1pshS2.jpg[/IMG] [video=youtube;UJOjTNuuEVw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJOjTNuuEVw[/video]
[QUOTE=Hellborg 65;40145285]they aren't simple enough for plebs like you[/QUOTE] I laugh, but then I cry. Because we still don't have the tools. Didn't they say they might release a mod toolkit set later down the track?
[QUOTE=Hellborg 65;40145285]they aren't simple enough for plebs like you[/QUOTE] Saddest thing, that's literally how they handwaved the absence of mod tools. Besides, DICE is going more and more down the Crytek road. Look at our engine! Look at it! Buy it! [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=-n3o-;40145859]I laugh, but then I cry. Because we still don't have the tools. Didn't they say they might release a mod toolkit set later down the track?[/QUOTE] They said something along the lines of "we'll be looking into it". Obviously, they only said that to dodge the question.
Yeah I remember them saying that, but that was before BF3s release.
[quote]Bach explains that "just because other people can use the Frostbite engine, doesn't mean that it's a neat package that anyone can just download, and start an executable, and then you’re on your way."[/quote] It's going to kill you to help make tutorials to use Frostbite 3? This guy is a fucking cunt.
[QUOTE=gudman;40146017] Besides, DICE is going more and more down the Crytek road. Look at our engine! Look at it! Buy it![/QUOTE] meanwhile Kojima is all like "man fuck all you punk-ass bitches" and shits on them with the glorious Fox Engine
[QUOTE=gudman;40146017]Saddest thing, that's literally how they handwaved the absence of mod tools. Besides, DICE is going more and more down the Crytek road. Look at our engine! Look at it! Buy it! [/QUOTE] But are they actually licesing it to other developers? So far I've only heard of developers under EA using the Frostbite engine, and it seems to me like they intend to keep it for themselves.
We kinda gave them a pass for no mod tools in BF3, but this is unacceptable. They rethought the toolset completely, yet they didn't think to make it usable for the community? If building a better game is their concern/excuse, then give people the tools and they'll make a better game than you could imagine.
Why do so many people feel like they're somehow owed mod tools? It always amazes how people abuse and whine at developers when they aren't given something non-essential, which would take a significant amount of effort to put together, for free.
EA would allow a toolkit anyway, they make too much money of DLC and premium membership. If there was a modding toolkit, it would effect them.
As someone who has absolutely no clue about engines aside from what they're for, I feel completely confident in my uneducated opinion that it's the right step to make your engine as moddable as possible. Or at least that's why I think heavy Unreal 3.5 mods are still so common today, usually run really well and look great with a decent artstyle overshadowing the fact it doesn't have all the crazy shaders and particle effects and post-processing modern engines might provide.
[QUOTE=Pikachu231;40146173]It's going to kill you to help make tutorials to use Frostbite 3? This guy is a fucking cunt.[/QUOTE] I don't know man I mean this looks complicated. [t]http://images.bf-games.net/news/2011/05/10171_12.jpg[/t] Oh wait no it fucking doesn't, it's just like every other fucking game engine.
[QUOTE=Wiggles;40146337]Why do so many people feel like they're somehow owed mod tools? It always amazes how people abuse and whine at developers when they aren't given something non-essential, which would take a significant amount of effort to put together, for free.[/QUOTE] It's not so much that we think we're owed mod tools, it's just such a laughable mistake when companies don't provide them... even if all you're thinking about is your own bottom line.
DICE just doesn't care about modding. They are nothing short of idiots. Look at fucking Battlefield 2. Project Reality and Forgotten Hope 2. Need I say more, DICE? People have managed to make completely new islands for GTA IV and all sorts of new content for GTA IV. But has Rockstar ever mentioned modding? Nope. Developers that do not support mods are most likely too lazy to care. Now some games naturally will never have mods, like MMO games since then people would run around with different mods changing the game (aside from HUD stuff I guess) and that wouldn't be possible when everybody needs to have the same content.
[QUOTE=pebkac;40146276]But are they actually licesing it to other developers? So far I've only heard of developers under EA using the Frostbite engine, and it seems to me like they intend to keep it for themselves.[/QUOTE] Well considering BF3's campaign was basically one long sales pitch, I'm surprised there's no other games
[QUOTE=Ericson666;40146485]Well considering BF3's campaign was basically one long sales pitch, I'm surprised there's no other games[/QUOTE] EA is shuffling it around in house, i'm pretty sure MOH2 was running on it, the new C&C is also running on it.
[QUOTE=Hellborg 65;40145285]they aren't simple enough for plebs like you[/QUOTE] and they are probably right in that regard after all they created the battlefield 3 and it's the all-time all-best modern quarters epic killer-shooter.
[QUOTE=goon165;40146432]I don't know man I mean this looks complicated. [t]http://images.bf-games.net/news/2011/05/10171_12.jpg[/t] Oh wait no it fucking doesn't, it's just like every other fucking game engine.[/QUOTE] I think it's got more to do with their build system, as they said with BC2 that it was an absolute mess.
so what you're saying is BF4 isn't for us, its for your developers. K
[QUOTE=-n3o-;40146084]Yeah I remember them saying that, but that was before BF3s release.[/QUOTE] After that we only got "2complex4u" excuse of an explaination, if memory serves me right. [QUOTE=pebkac;40146276]But are they actually licesing it to other developers? So far I've only heard of developers under EA using the Frostbite engine, and it seems to me like they intend to keep it for themselves.[/QUOTE] I know, right? No one's buying anyway. Oh and I just remembered something, there was some alternative explaination that sorta just floated in the air somewhere, don't remember where I saw it. Something to do with DICE outsourcing half the work to some other studios all over the world, and it's like, their license material that DICE can't just give away. And I don't think it's too farfetched, considering DICE has a history of outsourcing, ingame UIs for example.
DayZ is the perfect example why mod tools are important. After the release of DayZ, ArmA 2 sales increased with 500%. 500%! That's a whole lot of sales concidering ArmA 2 was 3 years old when DayZ was released. Also, It'd be fucking awesome goofing around in the Frostbite engine.
The issue isn't Dice being lazy or being unable to setup mod tools for people, it's that they don't own like 75% of the tools they use for Frostbite, they'd have to pay out the ass for distribution licenses to give the tools out.
[QUOTE=gudman;40146690]After that we only got "2complex4u" excuse of an explaination, if memory serves me right. I know, right? No one's buying anyway. Oh and I just remembered something, there was some alternative explaination that sorta just floated in the air somewhere, don't remember where I saw it. Something to do with DICE outsourcing half the work to some other studios all over the world, and it's like, their license material that DICE can't just give away. And I don't think it's too farfetched, considering DICE has a history of outsourcing, ingame UIs for example.[/QUOTE] they've never stated that it was too complex, just that it depended on too many specific things to be viable to run on any machine they licence tools from other companies like everyone else, this could also be a problem because then any of those companies could be like "no" and then that would be that the issue is that a bunch of people aren't aware of the difference between engines/toolkits/workflow/other things that don't have names but are nevertheless important, and so they see a screenshot of a level editor and go "HEY THE REST OF THE ENGINE SHOULD BE JUST AS COMPATIBLE AND USER-FRIENDLY"
[QUOTE=Brt5470;40147930]The issue isn't Dice being lazy or being unable to setup mod tools for people, it's that they don't own like 75% of the tools they use for Frostbite, they'd have to pay out the ass for distribution licenses to give the tools out.[/QUOTE] But Patrick Bach is a lying cunt!
There was a discussion on BL forums not too long ago about mod tools. [QUOTE=DarkLord7854] Building just a map requires jumping between ~20-30 different programs, and that doesn't even take into account the process of getting it into the game to test/play it, which requires the game source as everything is highly optimized and packaged for incredibly low loading times, despite the massive size of the map data and assets. -- It's not a simple thing as just dumping all our internal tools and letting people figure things out. I don't think anybody thinks that our tools are beyond the comprehension of everyone, because we obviously use it, and we are all human (last I checked anyways..). But there is a massively steep learning curve because they are just that, dev tools. I'll give you an example. I wanted to play around a bit with making a map and poke around Frostbite's internals and see what kind of cool map I could make. I used to do maps for older games (AvP2, Starcraft, Bf1942), so I figured "can't be that hard". I never even got to the point of creating a basic empty map before being completely overwhelmed with the amount of options, programs, and data required to begin work before I had to give up and go bother some of the senior mappers and get a crash course on everything I needed to know to set things up. I'm sure I could have figured it out eventually, but the steep entry bar could easily turn away some otherwise fantastic community mappers just because they didn't have the time available to learn things. [/QUOTE] [URL]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654490208755766[/URL]
[QUOTE=Blackwheel;40146442]It's not so much that we think we're owed mod tools, it's just such a laughable mistake when companies don't provide them... even if all you're thinking about is your own bottom line.[/QUOTE] They also used to be the standard. Pretty much every PC game released with mod tools prior to 2006. Nowdays we are lucky to even get proper server management tools.
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