Fallout 4's story fails where New Vegas' doesn't - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Drury;49108822]One thing I dislike both about FO3 and FO4 is that they both revolve around your family. A weird, weird family that is just assigned to you. It's not your real family. You feel zero attachment. [/QUOTE] Fuck you, Liam Neeson is an awesome dad! You're just angry you dad isn't as cool. [IMG]https://lifesite-cache.s3.amazonaws.com/images/made/images/remote/https_s3.amazonaws.com/lifesite/Miscellaneous/Liam_Neeson_pointing_653_384_55_s_c1.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Drury;49108822]One thing I dislike both about FO3 and FO4 is that they both revolve around your family. A weird, weird family that is just assigned to you. It's not your real family. You feel zero attachment. NV I really liked because you get shot in the head by this smug fucker right off the bat. You don't need to know anything else. You get back on your feet and he's one dead sunovabitch. It's as purely personal as it gets.[/QUOTE] So far in FO4, the least amount of a shit I have given was at the start. I didnt care about my family, I dont care about my son. So heres my voiced MC pouring his heart out over his kid and wife as I sit here not caring about them at all. I was more worried about the beer robot getting a good home.

[QUOTE=General J;49110029]okay that is fair but New Vegas's everything else fails where Fallout 4 doesn't so[/QUOTE] You took words right out of my mouth, couldn't have said it any better.

They push too hard with "muh family", your family lacks a lot of character development so you simply don't give a flying fuck about them. I am really enjoying Fallout 4 but i am not like motivated to save my son because well, fuck you i don't anything about my son other then it is my son, perhaps because i am not a father in real life but its not like i'm trying to save my own ass or anything. Like said before, NV puts more of its moral to you. Do you want to kill your killer? Go head. Do you forgive him? Alright sure thing. Do you want to work with him? Sure thing pal. Even though its a flaw, i spent 21 hours in FO4 and i have only explored a small part of the game and only recently the Brotherhood of Steel appeared with its fleet. [video=youtube;lRruQoqc648]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRruQoqc648[/video] I find this more interesting then the main plot.

[QUOTE=Kite_shugo;49108953]I'm pretty certain Obsidian won't be able to touch fallout again after that metacritic bonus thing from New Vegas not being reviewed high enough, but I do hope they get another chance with the F4 assets. Isn't obsidian like overloaded with projects right now anyways?[/QUOTE] They're doing a few projects, but FO3 had ~10 months of DLC packs after release and FO4 will likely follow suit with its season pass. New Vegas wasn't announced until about half a year after that, and was released 2 years after FO3. Maybe there'll come a time when Obsidian are less busy and are asked to do another Fallout, but nobody should hold their breath or even expect an announcement for at least a year.

My issue is that it's essentially the same plot as F3, but garbled in reverse so the Father/Mother must save the son. On top of that, we lack character development that we were given in 3 for our family, so there's no reason for me to give a shit. Hopefully the DLCs will be like New Vegas' where they are each their own self-contained story where the writing shines. I loved NV's story but the DLCs completely outshined the main game. [editline]14th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Aldawolf;49114045]I'm really willing to bet the Synth vs Human storyline or whatever that's obviously going to be present is going to take a great concept of the moral questions of real artificial intelligence and the limits we as humans can impose on them and all this theorycrafting and instead take the route of "Racism = bad mmk"[/QUOTE] [sp]It does, and worse yet, it's pitted as "they don't understand what we're doing for the good of humanity!" from the Institute once you discover them[/sp]

[QUOTE=MaddaCheeb;49116563]My issue is that it's essentially the same plot as F3, but garbled in reverse so the Father/Mother must save the son. On top of that, we lack character development that we were given in 3 for our family, so there's no reason for me to give a shit. Hopefully the DLCs will be like New Vegas' where they are each their own self-contained story where the writing shines. I loved NV's story but the DLCs completely outshined the main game. [/QUOTE] One of my favorite parts about the New Vegas DLC was that you could do them in any order and it would all still make sense.

Just btw to everyone that wants New Vegas 2, I don't think either of the writers still work at obsidian anymore.

[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;49117580]Just btw to everyone that wants New Vegas 2, I don't think either of the writers still work at obsidian anymore.[/QUOTE] Josh Sawyer is still at Obsidian. And while Avellone is absent, he has expressed a desire to work on another fallout so I don't think he's out of the question. However John Gonzalez seems to be gone but I'm not even sure how or where he was involved in the story writing aspect.

[QUOTE=cdr248;49117680]Josh Sawyer and Eric Fenstermaker are still at Obsidian. And while Avellone is absent, he has expressed a desire to work on another fallout so I don't think he's out of the question.[/QUOTE] Oh cool, I didn't know that. Avellones written some of my favourite RPG's growing up

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49109558]Fallout: Vice City please[/QUOTE] [thumb]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/449580653021756100/CA568322C3E077F5A9E179A2F5CADBED75D409D3/[/thumb]

[QUOTE=Xieneus;49117901][thumb]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/449580653021756100/CA568322C3E077F5A9E179A2F5CADBED75D409D3/[/thumb][/QUOTE] Fallout: New Florida would be rad. Imagine all the irradiated swamps with fucked up mutated alligators and other weird fucked up swamp creatures.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49115413]So far in FO4, the least amount of a shit I have given was at the start. I didnt care about my family, I dont care about my son. So heres my voiced MC pouring his heart out over his kid and wife as I sit here not caring about them at all. I was more worried about the beer robot getting a good home.[/QUOTE] Theres a beer robot?! Goddamn!

[quote] rudyrites [/quote] The biggest point of contention is that FO4 really isn't an RPG at all; it's simply a relationship state machine with a really bad-ass crafting/building and shooting thingie tied onto it. It has less [B]role[/B] playing than ME3, if that was somehow possible. It's just a sandbox encounter ensemble with some nifty buildycraftytradey economy stuff thrown on. It is by no means a bad game at all, in fact it's a pretty damn great game if you (are able to) ignore the bugs. But it isn't an rpg. At all. The only role available is Phoenix Wright, thermonuclear lawyer, and that's it.

[QUOTE=cdr248;49110348]Not sure on the disagrees for this. While NV's writing and quests are superb (ignoring the ill-fated Legion MQ), FO4 is a significant upgrade all the other areas that I can think of. If you gave NV and FO4 the same story and map then FO4 would probably be the better game. [editline]13th November 2015[/editline] Just my 2 cents.[/QUOTE] Well that's kinda obvious no? The main delimiter between the two is the story versus the engine proves. If you take Fo4 story and map and put it into NV, FO4 wins since it's a superior engine. If you take NVs story and map and put it into FO4, FO4 wins again, because the engine is just better. Either way, Fo4, as far as I can tell, falls flat in the same areas Fo3 does compared to NV. As such it's a good metric to compare by.

[QUOTE=smileykiller447;49117559]One of my favorite parts about the New Vegas DLC was that you could do them in any order and it would all still make sense.[/QUOTE] Lonesome Road really needed to be the final one. It completely wrapped everything up and delivered a bunch of seriously powerful questions and concepts. On top of that, everything you do in NV references what you'll eventually face.

[QUOTE=cdr248;49117680]Josh Sawyer is still at Obsidian. And while Avellone is absent, he has expressed a desire to work on another fallout so I don't think he's out of the question. However John Gonzalez seems to be gone but I'm not even sure how or where he was involved in the story writing aspect.[/QUOTE] Sawyer is basically the brains behind New Vegas, as long as we have him, we'd have another competent story. [editline]14th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=spekter;49118533]Lonesome Road really needed to be the final one. It completely wrapped everything up and delivered a bunch of seriously powerful questions and concepts. On top of that, everything you do in NV references what you'll eventually face.[/QUOTE] I really, REALLY enjoyed how the DLCs are all one cohesive narrative that all work on their own as well. It's quite an amazing feat.

[QUOTE=27X;49118200]The biggest point of contention is that FO4 really isn't an RPG at all; it's simply a relationship state machine with a really bad-ass crafting/building and shooting thingie tied onto it. It has less [B]role[/B] playing than ME3, if that was somehow possible. It's just a sandbox encounter ensemble with some nifty buildycraftytradey economy stuff thrown on. It is by no means a bad game at all, in fact it's a pretty damn great game if you (are able to) ignore the bugs. But it isn't an rpg. At all. The only role available is Phoenix Wright, thermonuclear lawyer, and that's it.[/QUOTE] What? no, just no.

I would seriously love for Obsidian to take Fallout 4's version of the Creation/Gamebryo engine, introduce some more comprehensive RPG mechanics (Fallout 4 is a little too streamlined in my opinion), get rid of the dialog wheel (or at least put in options for more choices), and go crazy with their writing chops. They've stated that an idea they had for another potential Fallout game would be to set it in New Orleans, and I think that's honestly an amazing idea. We've never really had the mid/southern US expanded upon in official canon. Given how awesome Point Lookout was in Fallout 3, I could only imagine how awesome a swampy wasteland would look in Fallout 4's engine. But still, I think Bethesda should honestly get some new writers for Fallout. The ones they've had for 3 and 4 obviously just aren't doing it for those who are fans of the originals. Hell, not even the newcomers seem to like them, via them buying into the shitty excuse of "YOU DON'T PLAY FALLOUT/BETHESDA GAMES FOR THE STORY." Fallout 4 is fun at its very core (basic gunplay, exploration), but everything else outside of that just feels low quality or broken. I'm sure modders will improve most of Bethesda's faults that aren't related to the horrible writing, but I'd rather have a game that I can enjoy in a pure vanilla state than one I have to wait for mods in order to enjoy.

[QUOTE=Jarokwa;49119239]NV is hilariously overrated[/QUOTE] I enjoyed NV and FO3 equally, and FO4 more than both. Yeah the dialogue in New Vegas was a little bit better than both 3 and 4 but people kinda forget that NV had a very empty world. Personally I thought the main quest in NV was uninteresting, and the ending was very disappointing. It was exactly the same ending regardless of which faction you sided with, except you were fighting against some different character models at hoover dam. I don't think people are taking into account the massive massive upgrades in gameplay, world design, art style etc that came along with 4 and that's why it shines so brightly for me. I've seen very very very little repetition of art assets (compared to 3 and NV in which assets were hideously repetitive) and I think I've only heard 1 or 2 voice actors that have been used for more than 1 character. The side quests I've come across so far have been a lot more engaging, a lot longer and the fact that the world looks great, the guns feel fantastic makes all quests a lot more fun. I'm just trying to say that the game shouldn't be based solely upon the main quest/the writing, which is what a lot of people are doing and it's why a lot of people remember New Vegas more favourably I can't give 100% praise though. You can't deny that the game runs like shit in certain areas for absolutely no reason. The other day in the Fallout thread I posted a screenshot of me looking down an alleyway - 1 screenshot at 40 fps and one at 60 fps. The difference was, in the screenshot showing 60 fps I was looking down the scope of my gun. How they've fucked up performance like that is beyond me. I've just finished the main quest and absolutely fucking loved it, and I can't wait to either start fresh with a new character or start hammering through some side quests on my current one

[QUOTE=wraithcat;49118457]Well that's kinda obvious no? The main delimiter between the two is the story versus the engine proves. If you take Fo4 story and map and put it into NV, FO4 wins since it's a superior engine. If you take NVs story and map and put it into FO4, FO4 wins again, because the engine is just better. Either way, Fo4, as far as I can tell, falls flat in the same areas Fo3 does compared to NV. As such it's a good metric to compare by.[/QUOTE] Exactly. I was pointing out the obvious because for some reason a lot of people seemed to disagree with the obvious. [editline]15th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Jarokwa;49119239]NV is hilariously overrated[/QUOTE] Well, yes. But for the same reason that I would argue that all Bethesda games are more or less overrated. They all have that massive (but forgivable) amount of jank, clear engine limitations, and less than stellar level design. But they're saved by some je ne sais pas feel to them. They're just fun when they technically shouldn't be. So when you have a universally praised game like Fallout 3 and slap a larger and better storyline on it with more quests and improved mechanics, you'll probably end up with the better game. The praise that NV garners is not really its own but instead it's Fallout 3+More. Not to mention that back in 2010, this was the 'old-school rpg' game. The one that felt like it was harkening back to some C-RPG golden age where the player had legitimate choices on how to go about their business as opposed to some sandbox shooter with optional objectives and an XP bar. So obviously the crpg nerd fandom is going to gravitate towards NV more for that reason. However, NV's largest problem was the decision to give it a desert overworld. Some didn't really care, but for others it was the deciding factor as to whether the game could engage them or not. I'm guessing you're one of the [I]others[/I].

New Vegas just had a fantastic questing system that played to your characters strengths, and in the end if you can't be bothered to to hassle with that you can solve everything by killing everyone. Fallout 4 suffers from the same shit as Skyrim "Go here and clear out this area and or collect objective and get a reward" I don't think the new RPG system matters that much (if you knew how it worked in NV and Fo3 it was shit). These games should be playing to their biggest strength more which is the freedom they offer the player in such dense personal world. Instead they seemed to be intent on going the opposite direction. Have some faith that you don't need to hold a players hand.

Will someone please spell out how its not a fucking RPG?

[QUOTE=Kite_shugo;49108953]I'm pretty certain Obsidian won't be able to touch fallout again after that metacritic bonus thing from New Vegas not being reviewed high enough, but I do hope they get another chance with the F4 assets. Isn't obsidian like overloaded with projects right now anyways?[/QUOTE] Could you not? Like everyone keeps repeating this, but they've SAID they want to do another one.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;49121127]Could you not? Like everyone keeps repeating this, but they've SAID they want to do another one.[/QUOTE] It's really all up to Beth as to whether they want Obsidian or someone else to make a spin-off.

[QUOTE=cdr248;49121321]It's really all up to Beth as to whether they want Obsidian or someone else to make a spin-off.[/QUOTE] I'm certain they will. There's no real bad blood between them. Beth can see that New Vegas sold for obvious reasons. It's just a matter of when they'll talk, and how it'll go down. I mean If Obsidian decides they're too busy then they're too busy. And I'm sure they would just go to Obsidian for a Fallout spin-off since the guys there worked on Fallout 2, so they know what they're writing about. I do agree that people's love of New Vegas can be a bit circle jerky at times, using it as a pair of glasses to judge other Fallout games with.

[QUOTE=simkas;49117945]Fallout: New Florida would be rad. Imagine all the irradiated swamps with fucked up mutated alligators and other weird fucked up swamp creatures.[/QUOTE] basically nothing would change.

[QUOTE=redsoxrock;49121040]Will someone please spell out how its not a fucking RPG?[/QUOTE] Could you tell me how it is? And don't give me that "well you play a role" shit.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49121549]I'm certain they will. There's no real bad blood between them. Beth can see that New Vegas sold for obvious reasons. It's just a matter of when they'll talk, and how it'll go down. I mean If Obsidian decides they're too busy then they're too busy. And I'm sure they would just go to Obsidian for a Fallout spin-off since the guys there worked on Fallout 2, so they know what they're writing about. I do agree that people's love of New Vegas can be a bit circle jerky at times, using it as a pair of glasses to judge other Fallout games with.[/QUOTE] I honestly judge the newer Fallout games in comparison to the originals (Fallout 1 and 2). Of course, I don't bring gameplay mechanics into it, as they're so radically different that it's essentially pointless. In terms of RPG mechanics and general story interactivity, New Vegas is definitely closer to the originals than 3 and 4 are, but that's to be expected when you have some of the people who created 2 working on New Vegas. Before Fallout 3, Bethesda never really did stories where there was moral ambiguity or even a sense of choice in them. There's usually no shades of grey in an Elder Scrolls game, it's always "you are the chosen one, now go and save us" sorts of stories where the path is pre-determined and you are just going along for the ride. Their lack of experience in telling a Fallout-esque story really shows in their Fallout games, and they can't really get too complex because they have to sell the game to mainstream audiences, so they pretty much streamline any moral ambiguity into a more familiar Mass Effect style setup. There's only "true good", "true bad", and "true neutral" throughout most of Fallout 3, with never any middle ground between them. Fallout 4 is essentially even worse, because your disposition is essentially pre-defined by Bethesda and there's no Karma system like in the previous games. I will agree that New Vegas is overrated to an extent (it's not one of the best RPGs ever), but it's the closest a newer Fallout game has gotten to the originals, so I will gladly join in with those who preach its virtues. I love Bethesda and Elder Scrolls, but until they maybe get some new writers in for Fallout, I don't think they'll ever be able to come close to the originals in terms of story. Maybe if I never played the original games, I would be able to appreciate and enjoy Fallout 3 and 4 a lot more than I do currently.

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;49122219]Could you tell me how it is? And don't give me that "well you play a role" shit.[/QUOTE] They call it an rpg so really the impetus is on those claiming otherwise.