[QUOTE=redBadger;49129233]You also forget that Bethesda simply laid the foundations for Obsidian to add all the extra stuff they did. Since Bethesda essentially did most of the work already, Obsidian had spare time to know how to actually make the game and to add extra shit.
So in a way, most of the "good" from new vegas only exists because Bethesda had already released a full game with a good chunk of the content being reused and reworked into New Vegas. They had that time to rework some things and to improve it and make it better. Even then they didn't succeed a whole lot in terms of actual gameplay and guns, etc.[/QUOTE]
That's kind of what I mean when I say 'its standing on the shoulder of a giant'. My point is that while 3 laid the ground work, it is NV that is the better game due to it's additions. It's a sad truth of most sequels.
For example, Saints Row 3/4 and Far Cry 3/4. SR and FC 3 may be the foundations but if anyone asked me if I could recommend Far Cry 3 then I'd say just skip to 4. The games are very similar but 4 has some additions to the base formula that just make the game better than the previous. Just because devs might've spent more time making a game doesn't make it better.
Also I could also argue that Obsidian didn't exactly have it easy considering their time constraints, the scale of the game, and the team's lack of experience with the engine.
[editline]16th November 2015[/editline]
I recommend NV over 3 even moreso since you can play Fallout 3's content with NV's bippidy boops via gamebryo modding magic
the biggest issue i have with fallout 4 is why the fuck do i care about some baby I met for 10 minutes in a crib and my wife who, talked about how we fucked in the park and then sat down and watched TV with me
at least in new vegas my motive right off the bat was that some smug fuck shot me in the head
[editline]17th November 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=redBadger;49129233]You also forget that Bethesda simply laid the foundations for Obsidian to add all the extra stuff they did. Since Bethesda essentially did most of the work already, Obsidian had spare time to know how to actually make the game and to add extra shit.
So in a way, most of the "good" from new vegas only exists because Bethesda had already released a full game with a good chunk of the content being reused and reworked into New Vegas. They had that time to rework some things and to improve it and make it better. Even then they didn't succeed a whole lot in terms of actual gameplay and guns, etc.[/QUOTE]
if that's true, and the reason fallout 3 falls so short in a lot of regards. Then why does fallout 4 fall so short
As I've said in other threads I believe, Fallout 4's core (gunplay, power armor system, base building) is very fun, but it has to carry all the mediocre, bad, and broken baggage on top of it.
It serves as a great base for a game, and I will be keeping an eye out for any total conversion mods or if Obsidian ever gets a chance at another Fallout.
In general, writers are pretty bad at making families/any kind of loved ones. It's difficult to find stories that have characters that are likeable or have relationships with on another that feel genuine. It's hard enough in movies or books, but in games it can be pretty difficult to make you care for a character without having them spend a good amount of time with the player.
I liked my silent AI partner in EDF more than I liked the stupid fucking kid in Heavy Rain that ran in front of a fucking car the little shit
[QUOTE=Drury;49110936]Fallout 3 story is actually somewhat good if you know the beginning and the ending. Your dad left the vault to help build a machine to give everyone in the capital wasteland, which is understandably the most radioactive place on the planet, rad-free water, but you know none of that so you have to find out and it makes for a nice setup and shit. It's just that the actual tale makes no fucking sense.[/QUOTE]
Actually, the entire concept doesn't make sense once you get one important part of the grand story involved.
The location of the water filter, its based at the end of the Potomac against the Chesapeake Bay which is fed in via the Atlantic ocean.
Plus, every major settlement has clean water already.
[editline]16th November 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=redBadger;49129233]You also forget that Bethesda simply laid the foundations for Obsidian to add all the extra stuff they did. Since Bethesda essentially did most of the work already, Obsidian had spare time to know how to actually make the game and to add extra shit.
So in a way, most of the "good" from new vegas only exists because Bethesda had already released a full game with a good chunk of the content being reused and reworked into New Vegas. They had that time to rework some things and to improve it and make it better. Even then they didn't succeed a whole lot in terms of actual gameplay and guns, etc.[/QUOTE]
Except for the weapon modding system...crafting system. Faction system. And ya'know, half the stuff that makes New Vegas, fucking New Vegas.
[QUOTE=Swilly;49130157]Actually, the entire concept doesn't make sense once you get one important part of the grand story involved.
The location of the water filter, its based at the end of the Potomac against the Chesapeake Bay which is fed in via the Atlantic ocean.
Plus, every major settlement has clean water already.
[/QUOTE]
plus at its core its a plot device that has already been used by fallout 1. talk about snoresville.
in fo3 and skyrim, bethesda just didn't know how to write main stories that are compelling enough for me to want to continue them after completing more interesting sidequests. in fo4 it seems this hasn't changed, although the sidequests aren't much better this time around.
I know I've been abrasive as the release got closer, but that's mainly because I knew this all would happen.
I remember what happened after Skyrim, I had no attachment to the Elder Scrolls games and I watched as friends who do ultimately come back after a few months stating, "mods were needed".
Bethesda needs to get its head out of it ass.
[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;49128154]And you aren't doing the same thing? You seem so upset that people like a game you don't.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't agree with him entirely on that, but I do agree you guys are still being overtly critical of Fallout 4 and Bethesda too. They're not Ubisoft or EA or anything.
[QUOTE=AimlessGiant;49128930]Don't forget the absolutely horrendous delivery of anything Preston Garvey ever says in the game? Truly one of the worst voice acted characters that I can think of.[/QUOTE]
Seriously, as the first human friendly NPC you meet, he's pretty garbage. He rams his fucking minutemen shtick up your ass while delivering canned dialogue that his voice actor somehow manages to fuck up more with horrendous delivery.
Ok can I be down to earth?
I'm tired of this slamming because I've been waiting for Fallout 4 since it's reveal trailer. I love Fallout 3 and New Vegas, I was thrilled when I saw the reveal and saw just how GOOD it looked!
I watched their E3 presentation when it got to the Fallout bit and was excited by everything I saw, I waited and waited, and currently, I'm actually getting a new, real gaming rig on credit just so I can play this game.
I just really don't want to hear that the game I'm super super exciting and really want to play is some piece of shit from that terrible developer I kinda like a bit. Just kills my mood.
[editline]17th November 2015[/editline]
I mean it's already painful enough to check in on the Fallout thread and see all the spoilers I don't wanna click and seeing all the awesome fun things they're having.
[editline]17th November 2015[/editline]
To be clear, I'm not against criticism, I'm against stuff like this
[QUOTE=Swilly;49130744]I know I've been abrasive as the release got closer, but that's mainly because I knew this all would happen.
I remember what happened after Skyrim, I had no attachment to the Elder Scrolls games and I watched as friends who do ultimately come back after a few months stating, "mods were needed".
Bethesda needs to get its head out of it ass.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49131160]Ok can I be down to earth?
I'm tired of this slamming because I've been waiting for Fallout 4 since it's reveal trailer. I love Fallout 3 and New Vegas, I was thrilled when I saw the reveal and saw just how GOOD it looked!
I watched their E3 presentation when it got to the Fallout bit and was excited by everything I saw, I waited and waited, and currently, I'm actually getting a new, real gaming rig on credit just so I can play this game.
I just really don't want to hear that the game I'm super super exciting and really want to play is some piece of shit from that terrible developer I kinda like a bit. Just kills my mood.
[editline]17th November 2015[/editline]
I mean it's already painful enough to check in on the Fallout thread and see all the spoilers I don't wanna click and seeing all the awesome fun things they're having.
[editline]17th November 2015[/editline]
To be clear, I'm not against criticism, I'm against stuff like this[/QUOTE]
Arguing against people criticising a game because you want to like it because you're hyped for it isn't really all that good of a position, dude. If you saw my posts, I was in the same spot and deliberately ignored people ranting about it until I could play because I didn't want to believe that a game I was waiting on for months, even years, and getting for my birthday at that, would turn out to be shit. It doesn't make the disappointment I do feel any better to try and defend Bethesda for their fuckups.
To be fair, I'd still stand by Bethesda, if only because they can make decent games these days with enough stability in their word.
Or rather, unlike Ubisoft, Beth open world games won't have microtransactions for some bullshit reason at least.
...But then again Bethesda's answer to Hearthstone is on the horizon soooo...
Bethesda has a lot of flaws. A [I]lot.[/I]
But, they're still good at what they make and do. And compared to their more high-profile competitors, I'd say nowadays they win the match.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;49124074]Which is better than FO3 which had absolutely terrible writing.
Also NV added the weapon modding, which was nice, and the settlement reputation system (which was a better way of tracking how places felt about), the addition of a survival mode for those who wanted it... lots of improvements. Sure, it was tied to the awful Bethbryo engine and all that entailed, but in the ways that Obsidian was free to improve, boy did they do so.[/QUOTE]
Fallout New Vegas***** added ironsights, of all things missing in a fucking 2007(?) game with shooter mechanics.
***** fucked up
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;49131462]Fallout 4 added ironsights, of all things missing in a fucking 2007(?) game with shooter mechanics.[/QUOTE]
Ironsights were already in NV though. Granted since some of the weapon models were just ported straight from FO3 they didn't have irons that were any good (The 10mm pistol is one that really sticks out to me in that regard).
[QUOTE=Blazedol;49131360]Bethesda has a lot of flaws. A [I]lot.[/I]
But, they're still good at what they make and do. And compared to their more high-profile competitors, I'd say nowadays they win the match.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure they are good at what they make and do, I just think it is the fact that they don't have any competitors of note which means we have to play their games if we want large scale sandbox games of a vaguely RPG type.
[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;49126084]Saying "just don't do the main quest" is a pretty horrible way to defend roleplaying in any game.[/QUOTE]
No it's not ? Bethesda games have always had this option. The story is always built around that aspect, even.
Nothing in Daggerfall motivates you to accomplish your imperial duties once your ship has crashed, other than honor - you can just become a deserter and never bother following your orders.
You're straight up told early in Morrowind that your orders aren't [I]that[/I] important, and that they won't mind if you take time to complete them, because by the start of the game everyone thinks it's just weird superstitions and mostly a waste of time and money to pursue it. If you go a little bit further in the MQ anyway, it becomes apparent that the prophecy isn't actually a 100% chance and that you're not [I]the[/I] nerevarine, just a candidate, meaning that the idea that you, as a potential reincarnation, never bothered moving forward and ended up just being some random guy is not only a possibility but an actual plot point.
In Oblivion you're told by an emperor and his bodyguard to bring the amulet to Jaufre but the game immediately drops you in a big ass world with no genuine motivation to actually bring it to Jaufre other than impending doom.
Skyrim allows you to immediately cower out of the situation when whoever you saved tells you that you should probably split up, at some point you can run in the completely opposite direction and never see them again. Alternatively, you can simply never answer the call of the greybeards, or never bother fetching some old stone from an annoying wizard.
All of the TES games have the additional story aspect that you start as a prisoner, meaning your character has an immediate reason to bail out on the main quest - you're not trustworthy, or you don't trust the empire because they tossed you in prison, often with no real reason or because of a streak of incompetence. If you want to roleplay as a cowardly, or otherwise distant character that doesn't really want to bother with this whole thing, you can.
Oh and Fallout 3 straight up has a holotape early in the game that has your dad telling you to [I]not find him[/I]. From this point on you can either follow the main quest and find him or you can obey him and just live your life in the wasteland. Eitherway and in all of those games you get access to the majority of the side quests plus all of the map and such.
[editline]a[/editline]
Fallout New Vegas (and Fallout 4) also follow that concept, by the way. Once you're out of Doc Mitchell's house, it's up to you to decide whether you want to go on with your assignment for pretty much nothing but vengeance and a very meager financial reward, or to take the opportunity to move on with your life and do something else instead. Your character being a courier and an otherwise blank slate, it's easy to assume he could have just been an aimless wanderer before and still wants to be an aimless wanderer now.
Additionally, and that's especially true for both New Vegas and Fallout 4, the story gives you several opportunities to just stop progressing and not break the flow or the story altogether. Since the story of all fallout games are always divided in two acts, one of which is upclose and personal and related to more direct matters (save the vault, save your village, find your dad, find benny, find your son) and a second act turned more towards the wasteland and a wider goal that affects a lot more people (the master's army, the enclave, the water purifier, hoover dam, [sp]the institute[/sp]), the games are designed to allow for the player to essentially stop after they've done the original task and never transition into the second half if they feel like their roleplayed character wouldn't be interested in these matters.
It's what differentiates Fallout and TES from most RPGs - the sense that you have the choice to do and the choice not to. In The Witcher, if you stop doing the main quest, the game just stops moving forward, you lose access to large chunks of the map, and you run out of sidequests relatively fast, with very few side quests that actually take as long as the MQ. Most RPGs revolve entirely around the main quest, with sidequests only being a means to ease the advance of the MQ, but that's not the case for Bethesda's game. It's not a superior or an inferior design decision, it's a rather different take on the genre that makes the games great and especially solid for actual roleplaying, which is why it's always bothered me that people call them "not RPGs", when they're some of the few games that actually fulfill to near perfection the original point of pen and paper RPGs - which is to roleplay.
[QUOTE=Swilly;49130157]Actually, the entire concept doesn't make sense once you get one important part of the grand story involved.
The location of the water filter, its based at the end of the Potomac against the Chesapeake Bay which is fed in via the Atlantic ocean.
Plus, every major settlement has clean water already.[/QUOTE]
Well like I said it's a nice setup, but they fucked up some pretty huge details.
[QUOTE=Swilly;49130157]Actually, the entire concept doesn't make sense once you get one important part of the grand story involved.
The location of the water filter, its based at the end of the Potomac against the Chesapeake Bay which is fed in via the Atlantic ocean.
[B]Plus, every major settlement has clean water already.[/B][/QUOTE]
No they don't ? Megaton has dirty ass water even after taking it through a (very clunky and mostly breaking down) purifier, and Rivet City is polluted by irradiated water, with half of the inhabited lower sections being flooded in water. Guards talk about how desperate people keep trying to drink from the Potomac and how it either kills them or basically melts their throat and face because it's far too toxic and near battery acid levels of caustic due to all the rads.
Not to mention the beggars you find in each settlement that aren't exactly having a fun time with the local water supply.
As for the position of the water purifier, that's honestly just a very minor nitpick. They put it on the Jefferson memorial because it'd look more interesting, that's the end of the reasoning and it's fine.
[QUOTE=Swilly;49130157]Except for the weapon modding system...crafting system. Faction system. And ya'know, half the stuff that makes New Vegas, fucking New Vegas.[/QUOTE]
The weapon modding and crafting systems were both horribly implemented and felt like a clunky mess due to both horrible UI and an overabundance of resources, to the point where crafting anything required so many parts that you'd end up over-encumbered by just the stuff you carry to get crafting. The faction system was an interesting idea but the way it was implemented it felt like a chore to me, same way a hunger/thirst/sleep system always feels like it ends up slowing me down instead of being fun. At least in Fallout 4 the faction system isn't implemented via a centralized generic system but by the story, so once you progress far enough you just make some more enemies that start attacking you, and that takes a lot of progression in the MQ to get that to happen.
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;49131554]Ironsights were already in NV though. Granted since some of the weapon models were just ported straight from FO3 they didn't have irons that were any good (The 10mm pistol is one that really sticks out to me in that regard).[/QUOTE]
I'm an idiot. I meant F:NV in comparison to FO3.
[editline]17th November 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Craigewan;49131869]I'm not sure they are good at what they make and do, I just think it is the fact that they don't have any competitors of note which means we have to play their games if we want large scale sandbox games of a vaguely RPG type.[/QUOTE]
Well, there's Witcher 3, but any time you say that Witcher 3 did a better job than Bethesda in a big amount of aspects people get buttmad on a ridiculous scale.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49131984]No they don't ? Megaton has dirty ass water even after taking it through a (very clunky and mostly breaking down) purifier, and Rivet City is polluted by irradiated water, with half of the inhabited lower sections being flooded in water. Guards talk about how desperate people keep trying to drink from the Potomac and how it either kills them or basically melts their throat and face because it's far too toxic and near battery acid levels of caustic due to all the rads.
Not to mention the beggars you find in each settlement that aren't exactly having a fun time with the local water supply.
As for the position of the water purifier, that's honestly just a very minor nitpick. They put it on the Jefferson memorial because it'd look more interesting, that's the end of the reasoning and it's fine.[/QUOTE]
What was even the point of Project Purity though? You literally use a GECK, an object fully capable of completely revitalizing the entire area beyond just purifying the water, purely as a part of a water purifier. [url=http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_City]It's not like it's full capabilities[/url] [url=http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Arroyo#Revival]hadn't already been well established.[/url] Apparently it's not even that hard to remove radiation from drinking water to a level that's drinkable.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49131984]No they don't ? Megaton has dirty ass water even after taking it through a (very clunky and mostly breaking down) purifier, and Rivet City is polluted by irradiated water, with half of the inhabited lower sections being flooded in water. Guards talk about how desperate people keep trying to drink from the Potomac and how it either kills them or basically melts their throat and face because it's far too toxic and near battery acid levels of caustic due to all the rads.
Not to mention the beggars you find in each settlement that aren't exactly having a fun time with the local water supply.
As for the position of the water purifier, that's honestly just a very minor nitpick. They put it on the Jefferson memorial because it'd look more interesting, that's the end of the reasoning and it's fine.
[/QUOTE]
There's a Mister Handy robot in the player's house. He can make clean, fresh water for barely any work at all. He doesn't need energy, only time for his 'condensers' to work. So he's a dehumidifier. And the wasteland is full of these robots. Assuming that he isn't a unique type of robot, why haven't the people of the Wasteland gone gathering Mr. Handy parts and putting them to work condensing all the water they need? Even if he wasn't, could 200 years really have gone by without someone at least discovering how to replicate these functions in other robots?
So he basically breaks the entire plot of the game. And he's part of the player's house. That's cool. It's nice of Bethesda to set up this interesting plot and then completely demolish it within the first hour of gameplay.
Speaking of water, why is the purifier set up near the Jefferson Memorial? Where nobody lives? Okay, maybe Rivet City hadn't developed into a prominent city by the time Dad started work on the purifier. Except that would mean he built it somewhere far away from human civilization and of little benefit to anyone. What would be the point of cleaning water if hardly anybody gets to drink it?
Why does he say that small batches of water are useless? Couldn't people, you know, drink it? Why does he need to clean the entire river? Wouldn't a small steady stream of purified water be actually quite useful?
I know Fallout radiation isn't realistic in the slightest, but the fact that DC is still a toxic warzone after two whole centuries is really, really stretching it. Even if it was hit harder than most places. Shrink it down to fifty years and it might be more believable.
Fuck, I could go on all day about how flawed Fallout 3's plot is. The core gameplay is solid and I do recommend it for that alone, but there are plotholes large enough to drive a glacier through.
[QUOTE=Blazedol;49131360]Bethesda has a lot of flaws. A [I]lot.[/I]
But, they're still good at what they make and do. And compared to their more high-profile competitors, I'd say nowadays they win the match.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this.
The reason why I seem to rag on Bethesda is not because I hate them, it's because I've seen them be in nothing but a decline since Oblivion. And their games keep getting more and more popular, so they keep dumbing them down more and more to appeal to more and more of the masses.
Bethesda has always never failed to make a compelling open world though. Even though there are some logical inconsistencies with The Capital Wasteland, and Cyrodiil is essentially just TES with a LOTR skin on it, they're still great to look at and explore. If anything, while their writing chops and general production seem to have gotten worse and worse over the years, their world building skills have only gotten better.
I look at Bethesda and see a game development studio that was once amazing in pretty much every department (Morrowind actually had some great writing), still has a lot of potential today, but who tends to squander a lot of that potential in their more recent games.
Maybe it's trying to appeal to a broader audience that has them doing this, or maybe it's because they're sitting on so much money from Oblivion - Fallout 4 that they just don't care anymore. After all, Morrowind was originally going to be Bethesda's last game if they fucked it up, so they had to put all of their talent, skill, effort, and passion into it in the hopes that it would make something great. I believe it was that "all or nothing" push that resulted in Morrowind being so great and still highly regarded to this day (besides the combat), and we haven't really seen that sort of push from Bethesda since. It's more or less just been adding "cool features" on top of the same exact core from Morrowind, and tweaking it to be more accessible.
[QUOTE=darth-veger;49115595]They push too hard with "muh family", your family lacks a lot of character development so you simply don't give a flying fuck about them.[/QUOTE]
Was talking with a friend about this last night, and we jokingly tiered the games based on the main quest and how it involves the player, before unleashing them on an open world.
[B]Morrowind[/B] still ranked top. You're given a short cutscene about destiny, are boated in to Morrowind as a prisoner, you go through customs, collect some papers and.. good luck. That's it. Huge world for you here and you're given only a little bit of direction, zero motivations, zero ties. If you do manage to follow the main quest, it has an excruciatingly long build-up before the reveal that you may very well [sp]have a reincarnated god/demi-god in your body. Which wonderfully explains how you're able to do basically all the bullshit in the video game, even "video game" wise.[/sp]
[B]New Vegas[/B] was right behind it. There's no real explanation for your motivations other than you getting shot in the fucking face. It's hard to get a more pure quest for revenge without tying you into other characters at all. With that you're plopped right down in the Mojave and free to do your thing. You can be purely on a one-track path to revenge, or you can decide it's not for the better and do basically anything else. Vegas still has a lot of other faults and I don't believe is always worthy of all the love people give it, but you could also a attribute a lot of those faults to the shitty deadline and engine.
[B]Skyrim[/B] almost pulls a Morrowind again, except this time the whole ~Dragonborn~ plot-line is rammed down your throat in thirty minutes or less. The pacing is a little miserable in terms of how quick you go from prisoner to fighting the big bad boss Dragon.
[B]Oblivion[/B] unfortunately ties you in with destiny rather hard at the start, to save Cyrodiil. Except.. you're an errand boy for someone else the entire time. You'll get a statue built for you and there's a lot to be done, but at the end of the day, you get to the big bad only to watch the whiny manchild you've been helping all along fight it, instead. Thankfully, like Skyrim's dragons, if you fuck out of the MQ right away, you'll avoid those pesky Daedric Gates while playing.
And then at the bottom of the pit are [B]Fallout 3 and 4.[/B] I would even put 3 above 4, because there isn't much to be lost by not finding your Father. He's a grown man, he can handle stuff. Even if the game has relatively little to do on the side, you don't feel nudged to come back to the main quest. Meanwhile, Fallout 4 is constantly railroading you to find your son, find your son and the institute, ablahblah blah, son son son, shaun shaun shaun. The game also, rather directly, forces you to meet with a lot of the factions (so you can see your options and join up) before making your major MQ decisions, all of which still feel a little lackluster. You, by extension, are the biggest shithead of any of these series if you ignore the MQ because someone straight up shot your husband/wife and stole your son; and you're too busy faffing around with settlements or exploring old robotics facilities.
Then again, Fallout 4 seems to be the most "will be fixed by mods" installment from Bethesda yet. As much as the introduction was fun, I'll enjoy getting a mod where I can skip the 40 minute warm-up and just be plopped in the wasteland somewhere without worrying about my damn kid.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;4913198]the weapon modding and crafting systems were both horribly implemented and felt like a clunky mess due to both horrible UI and an overabundance of resources, to the point where crafting anything required so many parts that you'd end up over-encumbered by just the stuff you carry to get crafting. The faction system was an interesting idea but the way it was implemented it felt like a chore to me, same way a hunger/thirst/sleep system always feels like it ends up slowing me down instead of being fun. At least in Fallout 4 the faction system isn't implemented via a centralized generic system but by the story, so once you progress far enough you just make some more enemies that start attacking you, and that takes a lot of progression in the MQ to get that to happen.[/QUOTE]
Tbh that's more of your opinion. The crafting worked about as well as any other game with crafting and the weapon mods were a great addition with their biggest problem being the inabiltiy to remove them, which was only a problem with scopes.
[QUOTE=cdr248;49132958]Tbh that's more of your opinion. The crafting worked about as well as any other game with crafting and the weapon mods were a great addition with their biggest problem being the inabiltiy to remove them, which was only a problem with scopes.[/QUOTE]
A lot of scopes can be removed? If not all? Sometimes it takes a few parts, but never had that happen.
The [B]real issue[/B] with weapons modding [B]in my opinion[/B] is that everything was a fucking straight-upgrade. There was no sense of balance. No sense of pace when unique weapons like the Deathclaw Gauntlet could be straight upgraded with some bones and glue. Or when your best pistol was just slapped with every end-tier upgrade you had.
Your biggest trade-offs were usually weight (stocks, long barrels, etc - added a lot) and "range" which doesn't mean fuckall.
And the naming system was a miserable clusterfuck that made it hard to tell where three different 10mm pistols were in my inventory.
They whole central storyline of the wasteland needing clean water might have worked better if I didn't have a robot who produced free clean water daily. Which I then gave to a hobo.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49131921]No it's not ? Bethesda games have always had this option. The story is always built around that aspect, even.[/QUOTE]
If your main quest is so restrictive on roleplaying, that the only valid option to do so properly is to abandon it entirely, it isn't doing its job properly. It shouldn't dictate most of the entire path or personality behind your character, but just provide a simple hook to kickstart the story. F1 and 2 (and to an extent NV) have just done that and did not hold your hand on what to do next or gave away lazy markers. You actually had to find the waterchip/GECK yourself by asking around settlements and exploring areas. None of this actual adventury stuff happens in any of the Bethesda games. Instead you have a linear sequence of generic kill/errand-quests which barely provide ANY ground for roleplay. There IS no excuse for these things, when it has been done extremely well before, other than having to streamline the living hell out of a franchise to make it more accessible (=no effort required to learn more complex mechanics, or finding paths to the goal yourself, which gives games depth in the first place).
[QUOTE=Lambeth;49132994]They whole central storyline of the wasteland needing clean water might have worked better if I didn't have a robot who produced free clean water daily. Which I then gave to a hobo.[/QUOTE]
Or if it was clear to see that people were struggling to get by without clean water.
Or if there weren't already functional water purifiers.
Or if the idea of dumping purified water into irradiated water wasn't a stupid idea that had no potential of working at all.
Also, the idea of using a GECK to achieve this is just silly, considering the GECK can do so much more to help the wasteland than just purify water.
[QUOTE=Anderan;49132022]What was even the point of Project Purity though? You literally use a GECK, an object fully capable of completely revitalizing the entire area beyond just purifying the water, purely as a part of a water purifier. [url=http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_City]It's not like it's full capabilities[/url] [url=http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Arroyo#Revival]hadn't already been well established.[/url] Apparently it's not even that hard to remove radiation from drinking water to a level that's drinkable.[/QUOTE]
The idea is that the wasteland is fucked down to the water tables and no amount of traditional water purification could cleanse that - except project purity, which is designed to pulse purification down to the water tables using the geck and clean shit down to the underground level, instead of just soaking in dirty water and making it clean. That's why the thing does this big pulse when you first turn it on.
It's basically the same system as how Harold functions in F3 - a centralized system that cleanses everything for the surrounding area.
I wrote a rather lengthy explanation about this a while back, if you want to read it :
[url]http://pastebin.com/FafmrFA0[/url]
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