Video games: How big is industry's racial diversity problem? - Sensationalist Headlines

-i'll stop the merge, sorry-

Honestly I don't care about diversity in a video game, I dont care if there are Hispanic people in the game because im Hispanic, I only care if the game is actually good. If the game is good and has some nice diversity in the characters whitout feeling forced then its a plus for me. Nier did a good with the plot and [sp]Kainé[/sp], Undertale also did a pretty good job. Just dont fucking force it down my throat like Modern Bioware tends to do, It was already pretty bad in the Siege of Dragonspear and its even worse in Mass Effect Andromeda, like Aaron said there's one Trans character that its only trait is that she's Trans and nothing more, that is just awful writing, which seems to be pretty common to Modern Bioware.

Fuck all the races, let me play as things that aren't human

[QUOTE=rutolfus;52991505]Honestly I don't care about diversity in a video game, I only care if the game is actually good. If the game is good and has some nice diversity in the characters whitout feeling forced then its a plus for me. Nier did a good with the plot and [sp]Kainé[/sp], Undertale also did a pretty good job. Just dont fucking force it down my throat like Modern Bioware tends to do, It was already pretty bad in the Siege of Dragonspear and its even worse in Mass Effect Andromeda, like Aaron said there's one Trans character that its only trait is that she's Trans and nothing more, that is just awful writing, which seems to be pretty common to Modern Bioware[/QUOTE] I do mind, diversity is amazing and helps bring us much needed new experiences, it brings new stories, new worldviews, new baggage. Problem is, it can't be insincere trash made to pander, it has to come from a place of authenticity. However bitching and moaning about it endlessly doesn't help at all, people need to do more to support those who actually bring these games to life. [QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52991431]Oh sure, I agree, but people jump the gun way too much and accuse any medium of pushing that kind of narrative when it just, has those characters. Like TFA was immediately deemed SJW schlock when not once in the movie do they make a point of the main characters being minorities. Neither do they in the new one.[/QUOTE] Are these people really that important? They're just regurgitating stupid bullshit that they read on 4chan or twitter. [QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52991431]And, it can be easily confused between between preachy and obnoxious and making a legitimate point. A lot of media is made to make a point or push a certain point of view. Like Get Out, a movie who's main point was that obvious bigotry is not the only form of racism and that there are still a lot of unacceptable and uncomfortable things white people who [I]think[/I] they're being accepting do. Racism, sexism, transgenderism, depression, so on, are all things that can be and deserve to be talked about as the main subject of a story. Including video games. Some characters in other stories can exist solely to make a point about those subjects the same way any character can be a metaphor or exist to prove some other point. Now, that doesn't mean beat you over the head examples don't exist and aren't obnoxious, but honestly, the big problem there isn't 'forced diversity' as much as it is just plain old bad writing.[/QUOTE] I'd love to see these being given more spotlight, but they are hard to digest and thus are not very marketable. You'll find little to no help from publishers to get that off ground. [QUOTE=Zadrave;52991513]Fuck all the races, let me play as things that aren't human[/QUOTE] This, give me an Orc and I'll pick it any game.

[QUOTE=Cmx;52991358]Hey remember when Mafia 3 wasnt about the mafia and was [URL="https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nnk7b8/we-talked-race-and-politics-with-the-senior-writer-of-mafia-iii"]just about some black guy because diversity and racism?[/URL][/QUOTE] And? Playing as a black person around the civil-rights era deep south and the setting that produced was the best part of Mafia III. It made the story probably the best out of 3 and gives a good way to have the game world feel right when you're getting messed over through the mechanics. We can't really want games as art then not want them to deal with real-world issues or be used to communicate politics or opinions.

screw diversity quotas, why should someone kneel to sjw's

[QUOTE=Sumap;52991542]And? Playing as a black person around the civil-rights era deep south and the setting that produced was the best part of Mafia III. It made the story probably the best out of 3 and gives a good way to have the game world feel right when you're getting messed over through the mechanics. We can't really want games as art then not want them to deal with real-world issues or be used to communicate politics or opinions.[/QUOTE] Man, Mafia III was a sad tale to me, I could not care about the story because the game is so damn repetitive with so many missions feeling samey (like those goddamn assasination missions are all the same with that same goddamn animation!) It just bored me. The story wasnt that great, dont get me wrong it wasnt bad, it just wasnt good enough to make me bear the repetitiveness of Mafia 3 that I ended up Watching the Cutscenes in youtube. Its a shame cus the setting of a black person dealing with the rascism of the Civil rights era does sound really interesting. It also lacks a lot of the mafia aspects that Mafia 2 had, which was a dissapointment to me, whats the point of calling the game Mafia if it barely has any mafia on it? The game felt more like GTA than Mafia.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52991589]any gamedev with half a brain wants to make a good game, that was never the argument no one ever said "lol fuck making a good game just put black people in it"[/QUOTE] I think its less that its intentionally sacrificing one thing for another, and more a certain line of thinking that can weave itself into what you're doing and weaken its integrity if say a writer is intentionally focusing on doing X thing for an arbitrary reason. A rather heavy handed Comic Book example, i'm sure Gabby Rivera didnt go set out to make a bad comic, but [url=http://media.agonybooth.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/19223014/america5-1024x602.jpg]fuck.[/url] Thats mostly narrative though, if the game is also not good or boring thats just incompetence. If its a combination of the two i'd say theres a solid chance of some "made by committee" meddling (wanting to ride societal trends and hit quick deadlines for a more lucrative end result or whatever).

[QUOTE=EddieLTU;52991580]screw diversity quotas, why should someone kneel to sjw's[/QUOTE] As long as the character isn't going "I'm black/gay/disabled" every 2 seconds, who cares. The only thing that matters is that whatever they are isn't the [I]only[/I] characteristic of the character unless it's relevant to the story somehow.

[QUOTE=orcywoo6;52991251]Fuck off bringing this shit into my games. I don't give a fuck about social politics, I just want to play a damn game.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Cmx;52991358]Hey remember when Mafia 3 wasnt about the mafia and was [url=https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nnk7b8/we-talked-race-and-politics-with-the-senior-writer-of-mafia-iii]just about some black guy because diversity and racism?[/url][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=JohnnyOnFlame;52991384]Also how about these people stfu and start making games?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=EddieLTU;52991580]screw diversity quotas, why should someone kneel to sjw's[/QUOTE] The SJW problem is worth debating, even if its not even that big of an issue. I totally think that identity politics in actual politics is like most of the time pandering, but its not some topic that should be avoided at all costs. However all in all it isn't nearly as widespread as you think it is. It's actually a small yet very loud minority that will eventually fuck off once they realize no one listens. The Anita-feminist/sjw/etc minority just happens to be this decades current censorship crowd. It used to be overly protective soccer moms squeeling about violence and blaming video games on their own parenting, now its this. Most of them are far too unreasonable for their movement not to cannibalize itself from the inside. People are just making games either way. Even if this does become this 'big terrible issue' you're going to have plenty of games that have no identity politics in it.

I quite Dislike overprotective parents, they are usually doing a big damage to their children. also when it comes to those extremes minorities, I remember Neogaf losing its fucking mind over Jontron being in A Hat In Time and how this is bad because the game promotes Nazism and they started telling people that they should not buy the game because of this until the Devs removed Jontron or released a statement about it, im so fucking glad the devs gave no fuck about this, Neogaf was a flaming trash heap full of fucking assholes. Anyways back to the topic of Diversity and a little rant. I really hate the way Bioware deals with Diversity. Maybe im far fetching a little bit, but how they deal with diversity, like that trans person in ME:A whose only trait is that she's trans and nothing more, kinda objectifies trans people? like Bioware is literally adding putting this character in the game just because she's trans and that it, no personality no other qualities, nothing. Also another little rant, Im bored of seeing black women with afros in AAA western games, I know this was a bit of a meme back in the 2017 E3, but really, couldn't they at least try adding them some different hair cuts like long hair or hell maybe a fucking mohawk.

[QUOTE=rutolfus;52991687]I quite Dislike overprotective parents, they are usually doing a big damage to their children. also when it comes to those extremes minorities, I remember Neogaf losing its fucking mind over Jontron being in A Hat In Time and how this is bad because the game promotes Nazism, Neogaf is all sorts of special. Anyways back to the topic of Diversity and a little rant. I really hate the way Bioware deals with Diversity. Maybe im far fetching a little bit, but how they deal with diversity, like that trans person in ME:A whose only trait is that she's trans and nothing more, kinda objectifies trans people? like Bioware is literally adding putting this character in the game just because she's trans and that it, no personality no other qualities, nothing. Also another little rant, Im bored of seeing black women with afros in AAA western games, I know this was a bit of a meme back in the 2017 E3, but really, couldn't they at least try adding them some different hair cuts like long hair or hell maybe a fucking mohawk.[/QUOTE] I love diversity and even directly tackling politics in stories, but only if done [URL="https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/startrek/images/0/06/Let_That_Be_Your_Last_Battlefield.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20060918223203"]cleverly [/URL]for sure. But some take it to an offensive degree, ME:A is absolutely one of them. To be fair with Neogaf, it was always the biggest shithole in the internet when it comes to that stuff. They had a hyper-toxic ideology that cannibalized itself and the entire website imploded because of it. They couldn't even follow their own politics correctly. NG for me is almost a symbol of what I feel about a lot of these ultra-extremist groups. They're so hostile that they buckle under their own weight. When it comes to groups like the Anita-kins, they're also a wild bunch that takes it way, way too far, and completely misses the bigger picture, lies, and even bullies people. The 'major' people that bring identity into games usually do it in a way that doesn't discuss actual problems and instead tries to either pander or point fingers. I played a small amount of ME2 and, sexuality seems to just exist in that universe. No one as far as I could tell discussed gender identity or cared, it was totally and completely normal and care free. That's pretty much the best way to have an actually diverse game when the plot isn't directly tackling the matter. Just have diversity merely exist in its own space, don't talk about it.

Man its a shame that Bioware fell so hard, they used to make amazing games before like Kotor, Baldur's Gate 1&2, The Mass Effect trilogy (I liked the third one even after that ending), Dragon Age Origins, Dragon age 2 was meh tho. I guess Mass Effect 3 really hit them hard

Why are so many here implying that you can either make a good game or have a non-white character in it? What honestly makes you think those are the only two options? There's nothing wrong with diversity in the cast of a story, as long as it makes sense in the story.

[QUOTE=rutolfus;52991725]Man its a shame that Bioware fell so hard, they used to make amazing games before like Kotor, Baldur's Gate 1&2, The Mass Effect trilogy (I liked the third one even after that ending), Dragon Age Origins, Dragon age 2 was meh tho. I guess [del]Mass Effect 3[/del] EA really hit them hard[/QUOTE] FTFY If there's one thing I have learned from spending far too much time on /v/, it's that the one race/gender combo that will please the widest spectrum of possible audiences is [i]not[/i] brown-haired white guys, it's short-haired/bald black guys. Who here can remember people complaining about Louis, or Big Bo, or Lee Everett, or CJ, or Zack, or Marlow Briggs, or Rohan, or Luke Cage, or Charles Milton Porter, or Franklin, or Jax, or Tyrael?

[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52991749]Why are so many here implying that you can either make a good game or have a non-white character in it? What honestly makes you think those are the only two options? There's nothing wrong with diversity in the cast of a story, as long as it makes sense in the story.[/QUOTE] What is that conclusion? So far it seems like people here just doesn't give a crap about diversity, they just want a good game with a good story. That doesn't mean they think that having a non-white means that the game is Immediately bad, the only one I can think its Implying that is EddieLTU, but thats only him.

tbh there shouldn't be a 'quota'. If you want, you do, not just because. If I don't need diversity in my game I shouldn't be compelled or pressured into obligation.

[QUOTE=Cmx;52991316]Its tiring when it seems like devs are more worried about being political than making a good game.[/QUOTE] There is no seem.

I don't mind ethnically/sexually/whatever diverse video games (not that I play very many of them nowadays), but I think this kneejerk reaction of "We shouldn't bow to the SJWs" or "Just stay out of politics" or whatever has a lot to with the media talking about one of only a small number of things when it comes to video: How video games are harmful to kids, how everyone who plays video games lives in their mom's basement, or how the video games industry is toxic because it isn't ethnically/sexually/whatever diverse enough. When outsiders always only point to negative aspects of gaming (or any other hobby), I think it's only natural to reflexively react to any real criticism that might also come along. Imagine if the only thing you could read about movies online was #metoo and how only men get main characters, get paid more and so on - because sure, those are real issues, but cinema is also respected as an artform, and you get a lot of coverage that way. I think a lot of these attitudes would change for the better if the games industry was actually allowed to go mainstream; considering the size of the industry, it's ridiculous that news anchors still have to be pretend dazzled by the fact that, yes, 35-year old men actually play video games and ain't that wacky can you believe it and they spent a billion dollars on GTA V how ridiculous is that.

Whether or not they want to diversify their games is up to the developers' discretion. They're the ones who have to do the work and make it all function and gel well so people could do better to trust them more. As to how big the industry's diversity problem is; I think there is no problem. It's something that petty, shallow people invented for themselves to be mad about, something to grab influence over and that created a counter movement of equally petty and shallow people being mad about inconsequential things. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it's really cringy but there's no way of learning other than trying.

I fucking hate articles like this. No one who plays games cares what race the character they're playing is as long as the game is good*. Articles like this make it seem like having a black protagonist will get the developers lynched. Look at Assassin's Creed, no one complained that Atair and Connor aren't white, they complained that they're fucking boring characters. Then Origins comes out and hey look Bayek isn't a boring asshole and no one fucking cares what his race is. The problem is race in games is that often a non-white character is written poorly. Either you have social 'progessives' who write the character's race as their entire personality (like they do any other minority, like how gay characters are often just "The gay guy") or they're written under the thumb of some fucking suit who needs the game to be as 'safe' as possible, which means making the character fucking boring. Characters should be whatever the designers want them to be, but first and foremost they should be good characters. It doesn't fucking matter if the main character is a short brown haired white guy (which, btw, good job generalising people based on race) or if they're a a black, gay woman with one arm. As long as the character is interesting people will like them. *I know there are some people who would refuse to play a game with a black guy, but those are turbo racists who should be ignored because they sure as fuck won't change their mind by talking to people online.

As long as it reflects the background/story/era the game is set in then i don't really care. i feel like having a black protagonist in AC:O is a pretty good thing because it's set in North Africa but having a female black womanizer at the protagonist in AC2/Brotherhood would've felt hugely out of place, while in AC3 or Black Flag she might not've.

I noticed all of a sudden maybe a year or two ago that a lot of video game companies are starting to put black male leads in a whole lot of their games. but because it all happened at once it didn't feel like progress, but rather a bunch of old guys sitting in an office and noticing that tumblr says diversity sells. plus it doesn't help that none of the games in question were any good.

[QUOTE=_Axel;52991166]I doubt the majority of gamers are buff like your typical protagonist.[/QUOTE] Aw man I meant as in who they would relate to and like best, who they see themselves as. But I would like to see more sweaty fat male protagonists

[QUOTE=butre;52992635]I noticed all of a sudden maybe a year or two ago that a lot of video game companies are starting to put black male leads in a whole lot of their games. but because it all happened at once it didn't feel like progress, but rather a bunch of old guys sitting in an office and noticing that tumblr says diversity sells. plus it doesn't help that none of the games in question were any good.[/QUOTE] we can't have progress because its happening too fast and that's bad because [minority of unconnected idiots] are bad

Man I'm all about diversity in games. Not because I really care if main characters are all white, but more so because I'd love to see different takes on genres. I'm concepting out a fantasy game for my senior project right now actually with that in mind. Imagine an open world fantasy rpg with an African inspired mythology and themes instead of your generic fantasy rpg with goblins and trolls.

[QUOTE=J!NX;52993001]we can't have progress because its happening too fast and that's bad because [minority of unconnected idiots] are bad[/QUOTE] that's not it, it's that forcing it isn't progress "LOOK GUYS WE'RE MULTICULTRUAL SEE WE PUT A BLACK DUDE IN OUR GAME" isn't progress, it's a sales tactic. ideally you shouldn't even notice the protagonist's race during the course of gameplay but then in comes watch dogs 2 protagonist with "oh and btw im black" every 40 seconds. race can be a point if you're tackling racial issues but afaik there's a grand total of 1 recent game with a black protagonist that actually does so (mafia 3) and that game was shit for an incredible number of reasons

[QUOTE=butre;52993849]that's not it, it's that forcing it isn't progress "LOOK GUYS WE'RE MULTICULTRUAL SEE WE PUT A BLACK DUDE IN OUR GAME" isn't progress, it's a sales tactic. ideally you shouldn't even notice the protagonist's appearance but then in comes watch dogs 2 protagonist with "oh and btw im black" every 40 seconds. race can be a point if you're tackling racial issues but afaik there's a grand total of 1 recent game with a black protagonist that actually does so (mafia 3) and that game was shit for an incredible number of reasons[/QUOTE] I think acting as if having a black person in a game is forcing it is a bit too far. What is the limit, is Walking Dead taking it too far because the main character just happens to be black? we have hundreds of games that don't say shit about it and it isn't noticeable either way, I really hope you aren't noticing in all games, regardless of commentary. I don't even know what you're specifically complaining about anyways, racial commentary can be an appropriate thing in a game about a society like the US, just look at [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0sZfvZz4es"]GTA[/URL] for example. That doesn't instantly mean they're pandering and the alternative shouldn't be all about tackling racial issues. Racism is literally a part of our society. [editline]20th December 2017[/editline] like for real "a lot of video game companies are starting to put black male leads" is vague as fuck. Would it be better to just not have black leads?

Personally, I don't really care about a character's race or gender in a game as long as they're compelling characters, the story is interesting, and it all makes sense in context to the game world. I am, however, tired of cookie-cutter protagonists that are either cocky smart-asses, gravelly-voiced brooders, or voiced by Nolan North or Troy Baker. I also find it silly when people talk about "representation" in games and movies as if they're obligated to have that. I would say, maybe for writers to be a little more creative and unconventional, is that the next time a game designer is designing their protagonist, they draw stuff from a hat. Maybe not literally, but if you have <Brown-Hair-Blue-Eyed Space Marine> why not do something like designing them with Filipino descent, or British-Indian descent or something or red hair instead of brown. Hell, I would love to see more serious, story/character-driven games that aren't humans at all. Aliens (Mass Effect: Andromeda really should have enabled you to choose your race), anthropomorphic animals, mutants, robots. Something different. [QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52991380] [t]https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/ikkji5f4cfrqpfb0xmok.jpg[/t] 95 percent is fucking generous might I add[/QUOTE] I understand what you're saying and I agree that there are certainly more white male protagonists than anything else, but this picture terribly generalizes several of those characters. A few I recognize for example: Booker's race becomes integral to the plot of Bioshock Infinite and its themes; Why is Woods even on there? He's not the game protagonist, he's a side character along with Ice Cube and Reznov in Black Ops; Michael De Santa's an overweight, retired bank robber and Max is an overweight, retired cop and alcoholic pill pusher, how are either of those a part of the mold except being white; Shepard you can customize race and gender, so the argument practically becomes moot. What I'm getting at is, I think too many people look at diversity as "not a white male" when that's not exactly the case (or shouldn't be). Whereas some of those are run-of-the-mill action heroes others are unique game protagonists, and just because they're white does not make that any less of a fact. Diversity, to me at least, is everything from varying accents, body-weight, social situations, occupations, age, skin color, ethnicity, etc. I do agree that there should be more variety in the race of a protagonist, but let's not think just because a character is white that makes them "generic." [QUOTE=butre;52993849]that's not it, it's that forcing it isn't progress "LOOK GUYS WE'RE MULTICULTRUAL SEE WE PUT A BLACK DUDE IN OUR GAME" isn't progress, it's a sales tactic. ideally you shouldn't even notice the protagonist's race during the course of gameplay but then in comes watch dogs 2 protagonist with "oh and btw im black" every 40 seconds. race can be a point if you're tackling racial issues but afaik there's a grand total of 1 recent game with a black protagonist that actually does so (mafia 3) and that game was shit for an incredible number of reasons[/QUOTE] Prey, I think did the whole "diversity" thing just about perfectly. Morgan is Asian, no one feels the need to make it a point somehow and they still look "cool" or "desirable" to play as; a female Morgan happens to be a lesbian (although I find it kind of funny that you're either a straight male or a gay female); Alex, Morgan's brother, is obese; all the while they feel like natural characters and not "yeah, fat people can be scientists, you thin-privileged ablist." or something. [QUOTE=butre;52992635]I noticed all of a sudden maybe a year or two ago that a lot of video game companies are starting to put black male leads in a whole lot of their games. but because it all happened at once it didn't feel like progress, but rather a bunch of old guys sitting in an office and noticing that tumblr says diversity sells. plus it doesn't help that none of the games in question were any good.[/QUOTE] Like what? I can think of only Watch_Dogs 2 and Mafia III. [QUOTE=Ishwoo;52992595]As long as it reflects the background/story/era the game is set in then i don't really care. i feel like having a black protagonist in AC:O is a pretty good thing because it's set in North Africa but having a female black womanizer at the protagonist in AC2/Brotherhood would've felt hugely out of place, while in AC3 or Black Flag she might not've.[/QUOTE] The Assassin's Creed series has a unique position when designing the characters because it has to be relevant to the era and to the events of that time. As much as I liked Bayek in Assassin's Creed: Origins, at the end of the game it felt like it would have been much more appropriate (and rewarding to me as a player) if we had been playing as Aya given her role in the actual origins of the Assassins. Given that the female protagonists of both Syndicate and Origins have been secondary characters, I do get the sneaking suspicion that the Ubisoft executives (or whoever determines the protagonist) are not confident on a female-led main title.

outside of the ones that have obvious commentary like BS:I, GTA, etc because they're a commentary on America I legit can't think of any games that actually really reference race in any way that's even slightly in anyones face when its a social commentary on real life it obviously will have it because its an extension of it. You can't have a commentary on American culture without racism, that's about as American as freedom and Jesus