Former Valve employee seeks $3.1M in trans. discrimination suit - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Lysander32;50387300]This sounds like a "The Gay Agenda" conspiracy theory if I ever saw one.[/QUOTE] This sounds like a "fallacious, non-argument" post if I ever saw one.

[QUOTE=Judas;50387281]nothing against the lgbt community but fuck members of the lgbt community who try to stand up for themselves and not be illegally discriminated against[/QUOTE] There's no proof of anything yet so I guess we'll just have to keep an eye on the case. Regardless of outcome, I stand by my words. There's a bunch of very spoiled apples in that crowd that give it a bad name, and if I were to go out on a limb I'd say that yes, this is most likely one of those cases. Objectively, it's still up in the air of course. [editline]25th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Lysander32;50387300]This sounds like a "The Gay Agenda" conspiracy theory if I ever saw one.[/QUOTE] Guess that came out wrong. I'm not putting the two things in relation or that there is any collaboration between the parties, I'm saying there's definitely media looking to promote these kinds of stories made by people who don't know better than complain about the pettiest shit and inflate it to "I was not being paid for 5 years straight and nobody can prove me wrong" proportions.

[QUOTE=Ardosos;50387010]It's a shame "they" can be plural, though. We need a singular gender-neutral pronoun.[/QUOTE] We do. The word "it". Problem is, it's commonly used on objects.

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;50386633]you dont' have to be full fledged trans activist but if you don't see anything wrong with calling a trans person an "it" i dont know what to tell you[/QUOTE] I'm okay with people being trans unless they try to shove it in other peoples' faces. On the other hand, I don't care what you call other people.

[QUOTE=Ardosos;50387288]Read the thread, she didn't just have gender dysphoria, she had depression. Depression is a mental illness. That's what they were talking about. In fact the first post you quoted says that. It's like you intentionally misread what you wanted to see.[/QUOTE] Nope! There's clearly greater context to the post than simply a reaction to the mention of depression. You've got to realize that there's a greater meaning behind kjerr's post, and, hoo, mama - it isn't much of a good one. What I base my argument on is what the gist of the post actually is; that gender dysphoria, much like depression, is a mental illness that prevents someone from being hired. There's a deeper meaning to it than simply addressing depression; after all, the post that kjerr was responding to didn't even mention depression to begin with! Kjerr is trying to use depression as an analogy for his real target, those being trans people. His point being, ultimately, that because they are mentally ill, neither trans people or depressed people should not be hired compared to a person of equal skill. Also, c'mon. If you've read any of his posts before, you can kinda get the feeling that he's not the most upstanding and understanding person. Kjerr has said [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?p=50273544#post50273544"]that a tow truck driver that refused service to a crippled woman because she supported Bernie Sanders was okay and that the gov was overstepping its bounds, [/URL] a wholly [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1507870&p=49816423&highlight=#post49816423"]bizarre point about how the 50s were good because of economic prosperity and that the endemic racism of the time wasn't that big of an ish[/URL], some more [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1513247&p=50069452&highlight=#post50069452"]dumb shit about how a living wage shouldn't be a thing,[/URL] a [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?p=40623063#post40623063"]shitpost disparaging people that would much rather be euthanized than suffer horrible and painful death at the hand of some condition or another[/URL], and, perhaps most incriminating,[URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1511707&p=50002823&highlight=#post50002823"] that businesses that actively refuse service to entire groups of people, regardless of who they are, are in the right and not discriminating and the government shouldn't even try to stop that because of his belief that the free market would prevent them from doing so. [/URL] Somehow, I get the terrible feeling that this guy isn't the biggest advocate for transgender rights, given that he'd much rather appeal to the 'free market'll fix it' argument in regards to businesses refusing service against gay people. Either that, or he's a shitposter. Something.

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50387392]I'm okay with people being trans unless they try to shove it in other peoples' faces. On the other hand, I don't care what you call other people.[/QUOTE] that's so beyond the point im not sure you actually read my post be okay or not okay with trans people all you like it's not okay to call them an "it"

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;50387620]that's so beyond the point im not sure you actually read my post be okay or not okay with trans people all you like it's not okay to call them an "it"[/QUOTE] I'm fine with people calling each other anything- whether they intend to be a dick or not is their own decision. If they have an opinion that trans people should be called "it" then fine, and if they don't then fine.

Looking at the case, to put it bluntly, it seems she wants attention or some form of "get rich quick" lawsuit. On paragraph 13, it says: [quote]As a direct and proximate result of said wrongful acts by Defendants, Plaintiff has suffered and will continue to suffer Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, humiliation, shame, despair, embarrassment, depression, stress, anxiety, fear and mental pain and anguish, all to Plaintiff's damage in an amount to be proven at time of trial.[/quote] I know some people have a thin skin, but PTSD from some guy being a jerk and getting fired? Seems she's milking it a fair amount. As for the job, she was told that she was going to be reclassified as "independent contractor" if she moves and works from her home in LA which should have been a red flag for her to tread carefully if she wanted to keep her job and move back to employee status after everything was all said and done with the procedures she was going through. With the complaints to HR about the STS mess up, it wasn't a smart decision on her end to assume she would keep her job considering that classification (I do agree, however, that Torsten calling her an "it" was a douche thing to do). I'm not totally sure about how "misclassification" works, but it looks like she agreed to be reclassified as an independent contractor, so I don't think that will hold up for her (it seems Valve agrees looking at their defence). In terms of the whole STS thing, while Torsten sounds like a bit of a jerk for some of his actions, I don't totally have much sympathy for the translators that did extra translation work for free just because of a promise of employment. That tactic is absolutely an asshole thing to do in order to get more work out of people for free, but if a company asks me to do extra work of any kind on a volunteering platform with a promise of employment, I'd tell them they can shove the promise and if they want extra work, they need to pay up. A promise of employment doesn't actually pay the bills and if I agree to do free work for a company, they don't owe me shit. Assuming Torsten did do all of those things, I agree he should get into some form of trouble (demerit, put under observation, etc), but the only real discrimination I can see has to do with calling her an "it" which is hardly worth $3 million in "damages".

[QUOTE=J!NX;50385054]I don't know, it could be a case of one Valve employee being transphobic, it could be a case of miscommunication, or outright a lie. Or Valve isn't open to Trans, and its all true. This smells off though, now THIS doesn't seem like Valve.[/QUOTE] I mean I know Valve's been changing these past few years but yeah, this doesn't seem like them. Business mentality changes don't make me think they're also transphobic. I suppose it could just be that one odd person out of the group that's secretly a huge dick, but I'm hoping it turns out that it's not true.

Imagine being trans and then complaining that you're getting ridiculed. Personally I don't mind trans people and certainly wouldn't call them "It" to their face, although I do not support them because I think the idea is ridiculous. However if you're going to become trans you shouldn't be surprised when some assholes start saying shit about you. You can call it victim blaming, I call it hindsight. [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Imagine blowing your last chance on such a dumb post" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

you would think the last thing they want would be making it public knowledge that they're trans, and doing something like this is just asking to be insulted. $3 million because someone insulted you? What a joke.

Sounds like they were restructuring and that supervisor fucked up along the way.

Wait... aren't translators at Valve are volunteers?

I get the whole trans scene but what I don't get is "he called me it i deserve 3 million dollars" [editline]25th May 2016[/editline] Like she's gonna spend that $3m on therapy because of what happened to her there. Give me a fuckin break. If there was a lawsuit every time an employer was condescending the world would be in goddamn anarchy

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;50386633]you dont' have to be full fledged trans activist but if you don't see anything wrong with calling a trans person an "it" i dont know what to tell you[/QUOTE] Calling any person an "it" is not really a good idea at all. [QUOTE=Ardosos;50387010]It's a shame "they" can be plural, though. We need a singular gender-neutral pronoun.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/they[/url] [quote][singular] Used to refer to a person of unspecified gender: ask a friend if they could help[/quote] Works fine

[QUOTE=Kylel999;50388569]I get the whole trans scene but what I don't get is "he called me it i deserve 3 million dollars" [editline]25th May 2016[/editline] Like she's gonna spend that $3m on therapy because of what happened to her there. Give me a fuckin break. If there was a lawsuit every time an employer was condescending the world would be in goddamn anarchy[/QUOTE] Becuase USA and the fact you can sue people left right and center

[QUOTE=Buck.;50388149]Imagine being trans and then complaining that you're getting ridiculed. Personally I don't mind trans people and certainly wouldn't call them "It" to their face, although I do not support them because I think the idea is ridiculous. However if you're going to become trans you shouldn't be surprised when some assholes start saying shit about you. You can call it victim blaming, I call it hindsight.[/QUOTE] What the hell? Being trans isn't a choice. It's not a trans persons fault they get ridiculed, it's the person who's not accepting of them. There's nothing inherently wrong with being trans so it's on the person who can't get over themselves and their biased views on gender, not on the trans person who's done absolutely nothing wrong by transitioning. While the cause is not exactly known, scientists have been switching from behavioral psychological standpoints of research on gender dysphoria to biological causes and have made some progress. So if someones biology literally is working against them, how can you blame them for trying to fix what is wrong with them?

It sickens me that this turd is claiming PTSD related to being called a mean word. It really is a slap in the face to those who struggle with legitimate PTSD related to actual traumatic events. I really hope this person does not get what they want.

[QUOTE=KillRay;50385450]Uh, 'they' exists. 'It' is extremely demeaning.[/QUOTE] In the US maybe, here in Denmark "De(They)" is a honorific to the point where in the classier establishments you could probably get your ass fired if you didn't use it when speaking to customers.

[QUOTE=Crimor;50388836]In the US maybe, here in Denmark "De(They)" is a honorific to the point where in the classier establishments you could probably get your ass fired if you didn't use it when speaking to customers.[/QUOTE] Something you only do if you either live several years ago, or you speak to the royals

[QUOTE=gokiyono;50388852]Something you only do if you either live several years ago, or you speak to the royals[/QUOTE] I still hear it pretty often, guess I'm royalty then :v:

[QUOTE=Buck.;50388149]Imagine being trans and then complaining that you're getting ridiculed. Personally I don't mind trans people and certainly wouldn't call them "It" to their face, although I do not support them because I think the idea is ridiculous. However if you're going to become trans you shouldn't be surprised when some assholes start saying shit about you. You can call it victim blaming, I call it hindsight.[/QUOTE] It's not a choice. It's not a lifestyle. It's not some fad nor is it a fashion statement. It's something that I and thousands of others have to live through. Why should I just take it when people are being cruel to me? Why should I just sit there and "deal with it" or "not be surprised"? Why am I ridiculous for trying to be who I am?

[QUOTE=Buck.;50388149]Imagine being trans and then complaining that you're getting ridiculed. Personally I don't mind trans people and certainly wouldn't call them "It" to their face, although I do not support them because I think the idea is ridiculous. However if you're going to become trans you shouldn't be surprised when some assholes start saying shit about you. You can call it victim blaming, I call it hindsight.[/QUOTE] One does not "become" trans. Also what you're saying is victim blaming lmao. We don't choose to be trans.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50388907]It's not a choice. It's not a lifestyle. It's not some fad nor is it a fashion statement. It's something that I and thousands of others have to live through. Why should I just take it when people are being cruel to me? Why should I just sit there and "deal with it" or "not be surprised"? Why am I ridiculous for trying to be who I am?[/QUOTE] Do whatever you feel you have to do, it's your body. All I'm saying it's naive to expect everyone to accept you. I'm not even saying it's too much to want to be treated exactly the same but the reality is not everyone will be supportive, as many, many people still think of it not as a disease or a condition, but as a perversion. Personally I don't even get what it means to "feel like you're wrong gender". I don't have a voice in my head constantly reminding me I'm a man, I'm just me. Like how does your logic work? You prefer doing things women stereotypically do, therefore you're a woman? That just sounds sexist. Obviously it's not as simple as sexual orientation too. Or do you prefer looking like a woman? In which case it IS a fashion statement. I didn't come here to bash anyone, feel free to correct me, as I honestly don't understand your affliction.

[QUOTE=Buck.;50389086]Do whatever you feel you have to do, it's your body. All I'm saying it's naive to expect everyone to accept you. I'm not even saying it's too much to want to be treated exactly the same but the reality is not everyone will be supportive, as many, many people still think of it not as a disease or a condition, but as a perversion. Personally I don't even get what it means to "feel like you're wrong gender". I don't have a voice in my head constantly reminding me I'm a man, I'm just me. Like how does your logic work? You prefer doing things women stereotypically do, therefore you're a woman? That just sounds sexist. Obviously it's not as simple as sexual orientation too. Or do you prefer looking like a woman? In which case it IS a fashion statement. I didn't come here to bash anyone, feel free to correct me, as I honestly don't understand your affliction.[/QUOTE] It's none of that, actually. When you're trans, you feel that your sexual organs are not ones that belong there. You are uncomfortable with whatever you were born with, and your brain tells you that you do not belong in that body. Though from Wikipedia, here's a good example of what I mean: [quote]Genetic variation, hormones, and differences in brain functioning and brain structures provide evidence for the biological etiology of the symptoms associated with GID. Twin studies indicate that GID is 62% heritable, evidencing the genetic influence or prenatal development as its origin. In transsexual people who were assigned male at birth, GID is associated with variations in an individual's genes that make the individual less sensitive to androgens. Zhou et al. (1995), in a study of six individuals, found that in one area of the brain, transsexual people who were assigned male at birth have a typically female structure, and transsexual people who were assigned female at birth have a typically male structure. In addition, some aspects of trans women's hypothalamus functioning resemble that typical of cisgender women.[/quote] It is not something that I enjoy having. In fact, I hate having it. I'd give anything to not be trans. I don't "prefer looking like a woman" nor is it a "perversion". The reason people raised their hairs at what you said is because you said things that are very rude and hurtful. Understand that, simply because of who I am, I am considered a pervert, a child molester, a potential rapist, an attention whore, etc., just because I don't want to be marginalized and hated. [editline]25th May 2016[/editline] I'm not trying to sound angry nor am I trying to guilt trip you. I just want you to understand that the way you phrased what you've said was the same way that a lot of really hateful people talk about trans individuals.

[QUOTE=PelPix123;50389163]One thing I've learned about Valve is that Valve is not full of people who want to please anybody, it's full of people who develop video games because they enjoy developing video games. It's purely motivated by their own self-interest in developing video games. [B]Not sell video games[/B][/QUOTE] Heh. Maybe the Valve of 10 years ago but not the Valve today. If EA or Ubisoft had pulled this stunt almost everyone would be [I]howling[/I] for blood.

I don't really see much point in speculating over this until Valve have reacted in some way. With this little information and evidence we can't even get close to reconstructing what really happened, leave alone make comments on who's more likely wrong or right. [QUOTE=PelPix123;50389163]One thing I've learned about Valve is that Valve is not full of people who want to please anybody, it's full of people who develop video games because they enjoy developing video games. It's purely motivated by their own self-interest in developing video games. This is not necessarily a bad thing, that's just what Valve is in a straightforward sense: A collection of individuals that want to make video games. Not sell video games, not market video games, not even necessarily have other people enjoy video games--[I]make[/I] video games. Valve is a place where people can selfishly enable their destructive addiction to innovation.[/QUOTE] If that was the case they wouldn't be iterating for years on end based on customer feedback, experiment with various business models, worry about infrastructure like controllers, graphics APIs, consoles or even friggin Steam itself, nor would they give a crap about enabling the community to produce ancillary content like movies, mods and skins. It's rare for anything IRL to be so simplistic you can sum it up in the space of a quote on a motivational poster. Also, it's not exactly convincing to read a paragraph starting with "not necessary a bad thing" and ending with "selfishly enable their destructive addiction".

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50389116]It's none of that, actually. When you're trans, you feel that your sexual organs are not ones that belong there. You are uncomfortable with whatever you were born with, and your brain tells you that you do not belong in that body. Though from Wikipedia, here's a good example of what I mean: It is not something that I enjoy having. In fact, I hate having it. I'd give anything to not be trans. I don't "prefer looking like a woman" nor is it a "perversion". The reason people raised their hairs at what you said is because you said things that are very rude and hurtful. Understand that, simply because of who I am, I am considered a pervert, a child molester, a potential rapist, an attention whore, etc., just because I don't want to be marginalized and hated. [editline]25th May 2016[/editline] I'm not trying to sound angry nor am I trying to guilt trip you. I just want you to understand that the way you phrased what you've said was the same way that a lot of really hateful people talk about trans individuals.[/QUOTE] Again, wasn't intentionally trying to be mean but at the same time I'm not trying to shelter anybody either, my opinions come largely from a place of indifference and ignorance. All I know now that the way trans people think cannot be explained rationally. I just don't see how anyone can hate their body so much that they would rather have to deal with most of the world shitting on them and in some cases losing their friends and family. Surely that will just make you feel worse. I'd say trying to cure the thing in your head that's making you hate yourself would be the better thing to do but even suggesting that is considered inappropriate or immoral now. We help anorexics by tackling their self confidence and body image issues, not by telling them "Oh yes, just stop eating and turn go full skeleton. You're so brave, I'm proud of you!" [QUOTE=Kyle902;50388992]One does not "become" trans. Also what you're saying is victim blaming lmao. We don't choose to be trans.[/QUOTE] I've meant it more along the lines of "completing the transition", whether or not you're born with it is not the point, people will only change their opinion of you once you decide to transition. You're must be fully aware that once you make your transition you're trading self loathing for discrimination and marginalization.

[QUOTE=Buck.;50389495]Surely that will just make you feel worse.[/QUOTE] I'd much rather be who I am then what others want me to be

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50389535]I'd much rather be who I am then what others want me to be[/QUOTE] [del]You mean you would rather be what you want to be than what you were biologically born.[/del] This was dumb, sorry.