• ApolloLegend may be caught in legal dispute after recording Billy Mitchell & co.
    275 replies, posted
So is Apollo free. Did he survive
We don't know.
lol well so much for '10 days'. that deadline ended up being revised to actually mean '10 business days', which would've made today the deadline, but now it's been pushed back even further by Jace after it was revealed they needed more time after discovering a flaw in Billy's store. However, their revelations are pretty fucking hilarious. This wall of text post that Jace made is massive as FUCK so i'm just gonna link it: https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/176004-Dispute-Jeremy-Young-Arcade-Donkey-Kong-Points-Hammer-Allowed-Player-Billy-L-Mitchell-Score-1-062-800?p=961122&viewfull=1#post961122 some key points from the first chunk they tried to use the set-up Billy told them he used, only to discover it's not even fucking possible to correctly record to VHS with this method. "no amount of external signal manipulation or failed signal capture methods" will result in original arcade footage failing to show the 5 girders they're supposed to. they never show the finger girder/3 girder shit we keep seeing in Billy's footage they dig into one of the massive gibberish videos a Billy supporter, Carlos, had put out. for those that may be interested, I'll link it here, but be warned: it's 34 minutes of pure bullshit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9gAPW9IQpU in this video, Carlos claims to be demonstrating Billy's set-up. The problem is he avoids ever showing the set-up actually connected to a VHS player or showing a signal through a VHS recorder. Jace is now discovering just why Carlos tried to tip-toe around that so much: the 'TWO-BIT converter' billy claims to have used 'does not output a standard NTSC signal', so if you try to run it through any VHS player, it FAILS TO GIVE A RECORDING IN COLOR. They've yet to find any VHS recorder that will properly interpret the full signal. so in Jace's words: "All testing is currently showing that it may not be possible to create a recording that looks like Billy Mitchell's using an original arcade machine, a TWO-BIT converter and a VHS recorder only. More to this point, even Carlos Pineiro, using Billy Mitchell's actual equipment, could not produce a direct-feed recording that visually looked anything like what we see on Billy's tapes. That doesnt make sense. Using Billy's equipment should produce a visual recording that looks similar to Billy's - this variance is unexplained by Carlos." it gets better tho. Carlos actually did upload a video to his channel showing exactly this at one point. However, he later changed the video to be unlisted. i wonder why lol. too bad it was already been spotted tho https://youtu.be/XKbkvqrzL5k oops! and if I'm reading this right, it sounds like they're also doubting that Carlos even actually got that footage from a 'direct feed' like that video title says. They're waiting for him to explain it, tho, but right now they're seriously doubting the legitimacy of this supposed 'proof' video of Carlos'. The more they dig into it, the more strangness they find: "Lastly, we noticed in Carlos' video presentation, he had a PC on top of the Donkey Kong arcade machine, displaying a webcam feed, and not a direct-feed through the Gigaware capture system. Since we have this hardware/software combination and have tested it, we know that the Gigaware capture system can not successfully decipher the TWO-BIT NTSC video signal, and it will only show and capture a BLACK AND WHITE display. We find it unlikely that Carlos did not test this, as it only takes 2 seconds to plug the video out from the TWO-BIT converter into the Gigaware input. He seemed to have no problem plugging it in to the TV in his video. It was curious to us that he didn't plug it in to the Gigaware input device that was sitting available to him less than 3 feet away." oy vey. so basically more totally bullshit from Team Billy lol... there's also a 24 MINUTE video by Jace at the bottom of that post. can't hot-link it here sadly but yeah go have a look. Honestly, this is pretty much all Team Billy does. They ignore everything that can't be disputed, focus on one little iffy thing that nobody really cares about anymore, and then try to write-up essays or put out massive videos rambling on about them. As if this dispute will be solved by whoever says the most words. This is pretty well illustrated by what is probably the only Billy supporter left actually using the TwinGalaxies support thread, "Christian Pac-man". One of the points Jace previously made was the issue of screen-rotation and how footage gets output, suggesting that Billy's footage did not originate from an arcade cabinet. It was just something mentioned in passing as part of a maaaaassive wall of iron-clad points, and has since been rejected as nothing concrete or worth pursuing. In typical Team Billy fashion tho, this dude latched onto it like a week later and wrote a fuckin essay ramlbing on about it, plus all this other totally pointless stuff that must be tested first (like the fuckin power supply used lol). It's another massive wall of text, so if you want to feast your eyes on it, go here: https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/176004-Dispute-Jeremy-Young-Arcade-Donkey-Kong-Points-Hammer-Allowed-Player-Billy-L-Mitchell-Score-1-062-800?p=960902&viewfull=1#post960902 which was all pretty well shat on throughout the next page of replies https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/176004-Dispute-Jeremy-Young-Arcade-Donkey-Kong-Points-Hammer-Allowed-Player-Billy-L-Mitchell-Score-1-062-800/page237 good god man. this becomes even more frustrating when you take into account that this is actually coming from someone in possession of significant footage of Billy's 1.062 game. The guy posted some screencaps from it once during the dispute, and after people requested the full video, he then only gave out a small sample of the footage and it was HORRIBLY compressed (tho people could still spot a MAME transition in it, amazingly). He has since ignored all requests to give them the full uncompressed footage lol... and the nerd drama continues on for another week.
Jesus Christ, simply astounding. The shit-show never ends.
ye no kidding. also do you know what those two pics are at the top of Jace's post?
They're nothing special. Just pics of their setup. https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/58263/3445e53d-7985-47c5-b771-f1314a4960a6/image2.jpg https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/58263/4516db0c-7f2a-4edb-91d4-a362bcc6cd96/image1.jpg
also for those that can't be bothered watching Jace'sm 24 minute vid, it should be noted that he did indeed capture a transition screen using billy's 'setup'. https://i.imgur.com/s3K13J8.png 5 girders. not 3, no finger of cheating, only Jace's finger of ~truth~
big news always seems to come in waves. Jace announced he's just holding off on the final decision until they can investigate this latest issue some more, and until the 3rd party tester can finish testing -something-. No sooner did he say that did the guy finish and post a sneak peak of the results so to recap, there are two girder loading transitions, each supposedly exclusive to their platform Legit arcade transition: https://i.imgur.com/4VddjCa.png Phony MAME transition: https://i.imgur.com/PfCkjRO.png One of the claims that Christian guy made was in regards to how the screen was drawn if you fucked around with the arcade hardware itself (which would mean the hardware was modified so Billy would be banned anyways lol....). Well the third-party tester helping TG went ahead and tested it out. He modified the arcade gameboard to have the image flipped, so it'd (if i'm reading this right) draw from the left instead of the right. So, will that finally give anything resembling a MAME transition at last, and prove that Billy did play on Arcade hardware after all (tho it'd be modified hardware at that point anyways.........) well, the result was: https://i.imgur.com/7cOMXMK.png https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/176004-Dispute-Jeremy-Young-Arcade-Donkey-Kong-Points-Hammer-Allowed-Player-Billy-L-Mitchell-Score-1-062-800?p=961147&viewfull=1#post961147 a legendary 4 girder transition lol. No 3 girder, certainly no finger, and so ultimately nothing close to MAME in the slightest. Even if you fuck with how the board draws shit, you still can't get close to what MAME does. Another Team Billy defense bites the dust, and things look more and more definitive that the 3 girder transition is only possible on MAME regardless of how much you fuck with arcade hardware. Jace gave his thoughts on it shortly afterwards https://i.imgur.com/NSPoTYe.png So, now all that's left is for Jace to finish investigating this weird black-and-white recording shit that totally goes against everything Team Billy has been proclaiming about Billy's supposed set-up, and then this shit can -FINALLY- be put to rest.
The ride never ends. Christian Pac-Man is a fuckin shill. He defended Todd too, although he dumped him like a sack of bricks once the evidence became too damning iirc.
On the one hand I want him to just hurry up and make the final decision already. But on the other hand I also want him to take the time to blast a smoking crater in every single one of Billy's defences.
does it really matter though? billy and his fans will deny it til the end of the world
I mean yeah but the more insanely in-depth their proof reveal is, the more stupid the billy-supporters will look for still hanging on.
bets on how billy will respond to the guilty verdict? perhaps the old "I recreated the record because the original recording was lost", or claim he was framed?
Dream of the mame finger That sounds like something Keifer Sutherland would say before knocking Billy Mitchell unconscious. This is really interesting to follow, I hope it goes on longer, though I know it's better for it to just end with Billy getting BTFO'd
he and his follower's will just parrot on endlessly about how it's not the original tapes, possibly going as far as to again say someones framing him with these MAME versions or just that it's oddly consistent video artifacts due to poor video quality, and the world will keep on spinning. tbh i think more focus should be shown on Walter Day after this shits wrapped up. The spineless prick let Billy walk all over him and TG back in the day, totally bending over backwards for what really was an obviously dishonest prick from the start and being just as responsible for Weibe getting robbed of his rightful record as Billy himself is. God the original TG was an absolute joke of an organization.
What about Apollo Legend though?
We're not gonna hear anything concerning him for a long time I imagine, and when we do I doubt it'll be good news lol. If he really did try to secretly record Billy (which I'm guessing he did given his total radio silence response) than he's screwed. I hope he somehow makes it throw unscathed cause if he did he'd have a fukin field day making videos about it all lol.
annnnd time for another update Carlos has fired back now after seeing Jace's response. Lot's of silly excuses, and boy is it reminiscent of Todd Roger's response with it's cringey usage of the victim card lol https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/176004-Dispute-Jeremy-Young-Arcade-Donkey-Kong-Points-Hammer-Allowed-Player-Billy-L-Mitchell-Score-1-062-800/page250?p=961771#post961771 https://i.imgur.com/8fnTz2D.png https://i.imgur.com/DyZ4b4a.png https://i.imgur.com/DN5TT4y.png and people are already starting to call bullshit on some of his claims https://i.imgur.com/89OOXgG.png https://i.imgur.com/cLs0F1Z.png (christ that last post is hard to read) so basically now it's a quest for the magic VCR, and they just need more time to find it... Jace's response was simply "Thanks for sending. Since you have given me permission, I am going to go ahead and repost the message you sent into the public dispute thread so that it can be officially considered in the evidence chain. I appreciate Carlos' efforts and look forward to seeing the results of his continuing attempts to reproduce an original DK arcade VHS recording that is similar to Billy's using the described process and equipment that Billy provided at the time of his adjudication. Arcade->TWO BIT converter -> VHS recorder. We continue to attempt it as well." at least he's not giving them any wiggle room. but christ at this point it's pretty obvious they're just stalling lol. the longer this draws out, the more events Billy can still attend (like that little Ready Player One shit listed above) and the more money he can make off his name while it still means something. This shit really needs to wrap up this week.
well, no reason to speculate on if they're just stalling or not, cause now they've just come right out and said it https://i.imgur.com/evuaCdg.png friendly reminder that team billy announced there's gonna be a King of Kong 2, and that Bill is currently touring to various places for dumb publicity. I'm gonna take a wild guess and say there's some event going on this weekend that they really want to attend before Billy gets outted. this is dumb, and if they don't immeidately render a decision on Monday when Team Billy presents it's latest course of vague bullshit that ~totally must~ be fully investigated to truly call Billy a cheater, than TG is right back to being a joke again lol.
What garbage, and here I was thinking Jace was getting better. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I agree, if a decision isn't rendered on Monday after Team Billy have had their say then TG can fuck right off.
really appreciate these update posts postal!! what a shitshow
shut down TG already, it's a disgrace
If I had any connections in the speedrunning/high-score scenes, I would be coding up a new site myself right now. I can't imagine TG has much credibility left, people who legitimately hold records would probably like a more reputable authority. (Plus, the TG site feels like they've barely changed anything since the 90s). But, sadly, literally nobody in the competitive gaming scene knows who I am, so how the hell would I convince anyone to use my site? I'll leave it to people who better know what they're doing.
yea worth noting that WesC, the Donkey Kong world record holder only like 4 months ago, declared he would never use the site again after his horrible experience in the Todd Rogers thread, where TG staff allowed him to be harassed by some nutty lunatic that tried to keep calling him a racist lol. Any competitor that pops up is gonna drain the life outta this place so damn fast.
I legitimately have no idea how Twin Galaxies even exists anymore, I know King of Kong was biased as fuck, but like, even back then they came off as infinitely useless and corrupt, like, openly.
christ the dispute thread is just an explosion of arguing right now lol. one side claiming Billy's just fucking with them and will never stop trying to stall, the other pointing out the scores have been up for years so what's the harm in waiting a few more days. god this is silly, but fuck if this post didn't give me a laugh with how fukin spot on it is https://i.imgur.com/s4ORUB5.png i wonder if there's somewhere Billy lists all his planned and upcoming appearances, cause I'd be interested to see if he's got something going on this weekend.
another upd8 carlos has again contacted Jace. I guess he doesn't want his exact emails posted anymore lol cause now Jace is just summarizing their discussion. https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/176004-Dispute-Jeremy-Young-Arcade-Donkey-Kong-Points-Hammer-Allowed-Player-Billy-L-Mitchell-Score-1-062-800/page267 tl;dr: -Carlos is testing with 3 DK PCB boards, including the exact board that Billy sent him which was sent to 'Nintendo' techs for validation at one point supposedly -he found the magic vcr. it's not said what it was tho so uhh ok -while he can get the right color, he can't get the right orientation or, more importantly, the 3/finger girders -otherwise findings match with what TG has so found so far. Jace wants him to prove the -exact- setup billy claims can work tho with no extra parts of the process outside of what they were told by Billy. Carlos says he will, he just needs a little time (lol) -Jace told him the time is very limited though, and Carlos had no objections to that. So hopefully this can all be wrapped by the start of next week still so now we wait and see. also, going back to that one update earlier, I kinda missed some stuff from that quote by Joel West on behalf of the ever-silent Billy: "I have several statements/affidavits I am in the process of getting which will shed some light on tapes 'Billy claimed' he was the player on" first off lmao affidavits? why the fuck are they presenting their claims as signed affidavits. Do they really think that'll somehow give them more validity and make their absurd claims not just get laughed out of here? Yeah right lol fuck off. And secondly the emphasis on 'billy claimed' he was the player on really makes it sound like they're slooowly working back to their original defense: those aren't Billy's tapes. A claim that has been so totally refuted so many times in so many ways (including frame-by-frame comparisons between the tapes and King of Kong footage, as well as other various copies that were given to old TG refs) that it would be the funniest shit ever if they seriously end this all by going full-circle to their first claim having totally failed on every defense that came afterwards. absolute SCHMUCKS
I don't think they've hit the bottom of the barrel yet. I'm waiting for someone to say "Billy played on an actual DK board but so the crowd would have something to watch, we mirrored the inputs to a MAME box and put that on screen and I guess that got recorded instead by accident but Billy totally played it for real so the record should stand".
for fucks sake i read the entire thread thinking I'd see this shmuck slammed in the jammer with a poirot-esque takedown on the final page, but now i'm blueballed with the rest of you i want JUSTICE
Carlos finally shared his recording of footage using the magic VCR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb_JJeLdUac for comparison (tho he fucked up the brightness a bit tbh) billy's is on top, carlos' is on bottom https://i.imgur.com/yYUXa0p.png excluding the brightness butchering, it's not that far off. shame, it would've been funny as shit if it really was impossible to not get an image in color lol. Also, note the difference in orientation from the video out-put. I'm still not clear on what the significance of this is. I thought it wasn't a big deal at first since nobody really talked about it much (excluding Christian Pacman going nuts over it lol), but it's come up again as people are finally getting to replicating Billy's set-up. The short of it is the orientation on Billy's video is totally wrong then you'd get if he did a legit recording off arcade hardware. But if he were recording from a computer, it'd make sense. We'll see where it goes from there. also, some guy did put together some neat visualization simulations of how MAME and Arcade render screens, plus an in-depth explanation of why it's like that. It's pretty neat. https://i.imgur.com/7JRO2rJ.png https://i.imgur.com/bMVEdYg.png https://i.imgur.com/o4jsJrQ.mp4 https://i.imgur.com/1b12EgZ.mp4 https://i.imgur.com/gqXIE5N.mp4
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