Ohio teens given suspended sentence after killing mand with sandbag.
50 replies, posted
Both good articles to read. Here's another article on NPR where pediatric neurologist even explicitly states that the frontal lobe, the part of the brain that deal with actions and their consequences is not fully developed.
"Scientists used to think human brain development was pretty complete by age 10. Or as she puts it, that "a teenage brain is just an adult brain with fewer miles on it."
But it's not. To begin with, she says, a crucial part of the brain — the frontal lobes — are not fully connected. Really.
"It's the part of the brain that says: 'Is this a good idea? What is the consequence of this action?"
So I can fully believe that these kids were not fully aware of the consequences of their actions. Yes, there are some kids out there who could be aware of the consequences but just from what little information I have from the trial, these kids seem remorseful and do not deserve life imprisonment. If it's possible to rehabilitate and be able to be re-integrate people back into society, why wouldn't you want to try?
kids think it'll explode on the car, crack a windshield, miss, a whole lot of other things because they have no frame of reference to what a falling object does to a speeding object except from movies and tv
Okay, that's all true - but these kids' intense stupidity has already cost one innocent life. When people are a danger to society, we remove them from society. That's what the justice system is.
You don't just remove people from society unless you're killing them. You set them up to return except in mostly rare cases. And I really don't think Sableye was saying that they shouldn't be taught that what they did was wrong on every level.
I also really don't think these kids were trying to kill someone. They don't have a complete grasp on actions and consequences even at their age. They probably just wanted to see a dumb sandbag explode.
These aren't toddlers we're talking about, these little shits are 14. They are capable of processing basic cause and effect before doing an action.
Did you miss the parts where other people have linked papers indicating that they very much don't? Even knowing that it might cause harm teens can do stupid shit on account of them not fully comprehending the extent of the damage they can cause.
And these kids aren't getting off free, they're being put in a place that can better help prevent them from making the same mistake in the future than prison ever could. Recidivism is partly driven by the kind of attitude you're displaying where the punishment matters more than the rehabilitation. Destroying someone's life because they made a horrible judgement call as a kid is just petty revenge. They have a much higher chance of coming out of this as functional members of society by getting the help they need now, rather than growing up surrounded by other kids that have the same destructive impulses.
I think this highlights exactly what is wrong with our justice system. The judge only has a choice between giving them a slap on the wrist and hope for them to become better people, or send them to a shitty overcrowded prison where they are almost guaranteed to become repeat offenders or end up in a gang.
And this is where your executive functions have to come up with what that entails. Where do you remove them to? For how long? Until they're 30? Are they suddenly harmless then?
There's much more to gain by trying our best to reform these kinds of people - giving them 20 years in a prison during their formative years isn't likely to help them in any direction but a bad one.
Depends on what you want it to be, not what it is.
if these kids are unreedeemable, kill them. You don’t have any other option that to indefinitely imprison them, release them to a public that hates them and shuns them to criminal activities, or to kill them.
those are the options if you refuse to accept them.
Were you some kind of prodigy child because teenagers and pre-teens kind of have a well established and documented history of being reckless shitlords, that's par of the course for being a child. As I said earlier I had to literally be told the concept of fast moving objects being potentially lethal for people. You'd be surprised the amount of things people don't take into account when their primary focus is to dick around and have fun.
In a garbage system like the US that's got private companies competing and which have a stake in keeping prisons as stacked as they can be, maybe, but that's certainly not an ideal to strive for. The tragedy of the situation is not lost on anyone but you'd have to be massive fucking baby with no bearing on reality to not see the problem with this logic in the long term.
While I understand the grievances of people who are arguing for the sake of being "too young" to charge with malicious intent;
I can't help but think that some people forgot a life was lost.
Someone out there just lost their son.
Compensation is a shitty way to deal with it, but I believe if it was your son or daughter, you'd be seeking the same thing.
If I felt like there was actual malice involved then yes, perhaps. But I'm not reading any ill intent with regard to human life here. Reckless behavior, yes, very. And a life was lost because of it. But I absolutely do not believe that that is what these kids intended to happen.
that's always been the question, whether 1 act of stupidity or anger or malice should dictate whether someone is permanently shut away from society, but this is also exactly why the juvenile justice system exists to give these kids a second chance.
They should absolutely be punished with more than a slap on the wrist for this. The problem is that the tough on crime mentality is creating more problems than it solves. People don’t want criminals like this to be penalized and then reformed; they just want criminals elements to be removed from society altogether. The current justice system accomplishes this by ensuring that anyone who goes through the prison system will end up back into it.
Society is creating its own demons by using prisons to hide its undesirable elements while pretending they don’t exist. We’re no longer just using prisons to protect the public; we’re using mass incarceration as a way to ignore all of the absolutely massive problems in this country and all the reasons why so many people end up there in the first place.
I feel like the entire "if it was you you wouldn't think that way" argument has always missed the point to a certain extent.
Yes, if I was involved in the situation, I wouldn't think that way. That's why the legal system is built in a way that keeps biased individuals as far away as possible from any position of authority; bias in the justice system is a massive underlying issue with very strong and negative effects on a majority of cases, especially in America where stories of highly conservative judges essentially fucking people based on really personal beliefs are dime a dozen. Simply saying "you wouldn't think that way if it was your son who died" is partly like giving in to this mindset which the legal system needs to actively part away from in order to remain fair.
Firing roman candles at eachother is the serious length of 'fucked up' you should get away with.
Are you tacitly suggesting we gas a bunch of children? Have you lost your mind?
No.
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