Furious vigilante films himself tearing down shrine to dead burglar. - Sensationalist Headlines

We do have them, they’re just very rare and not nearly as bold as in Europe. I’m not sure if this is an over generalization, but our community has some experience in dealing with them and overall they can be described as the following. They usually own businesses in either landscaping or construction, so money is definitely not an issue. The entire family act like bigoted assholes complete with slurs of all kinds whenever staff catch them trying to steal things. They act like they’re entitled to things they try to steal and are known by name to every retail business in town. They try to bait people into physical confrontations to sue because they have lawyers. The only good thing to say about them is they aren’t bold enough to attempt a home invasion because they’d probably get shot.

My experience with gypsies in Cardiff is wholly one of a propensity towards violence, threat and disorder. A moving community of travellers protested not being given the right to settle in my county by touring the local sports fields, shitting behind their caravans and leaving it all there when the bailiff turned up and, after much protest, managed to move them on to the next village. They even posted up in Barry Island (at the time, of Gavin and Stacey fame) car park during the height of the area's tourist boom related to the show and gave that the biohazard treatment too, making the beach and prom honestly a cold and icy place that nobody went for the whole time they were there. That lot finally fucked off after being legally prevented from stopping their caravans in the county. However there's a permanent settlement of them on Cardiff docks in Tremorfa, tucked away behind the industrial area, but they make their livings by picking up and selling trash, doing odd jobs etc. I had the misfortune of getting lost on a hot summer's day and got stuck in a car park, and was shaking my head at how much of an idiot I was when one of the big cunts leant out of his van window and started shouting why was I shaking my head for? I've never actually experienced road rage which constituted a threat but this bloke meant business and I had to grovel my way out of it. Frankly the ones I and my company have had to deal with in Wales (we have the misfortune of providing their electric meters which they regularly break trying to fiddle them) have made me wish for their complete disappearance from the country. Other events elsewhere like serious attacks on Police, and the Dale Farm siege, aren't helping the case. Literally nobody likes these people.

If they had a scuffle to the point to where he was able to get his weapon from him and had to use it against him, then shit was going down and the robber absolutely meant harm. This was self defense. Stop playing devil's advocate for a piece of shit that got burned for his poor life choices.

It's really amusing how rabid people get when it comes to gypsies or travelers. I know they generally cause trouble, but for fucks sake, calm down. Calling others 'swine' has been proven to not be very effective at convincing them that what they're doing is unacceptable. I think travelers are such a nuisance, and support each other in causing trouble, because the people within those groups are all family or friends of each other. People within the group want recognition and to do the 'right' thing for the family. Terrorism has a similar psychology behind it, often terrorist cells are composed of friends and/or family. It is also the reason why German soldiers in WW2 fought so hard despite often not really feeling anything for the ideology they were fighting for. Allied propaganda that targeted the ideology of the Germans wasn't very effective at all. Propaganda that played into the strong feelings of comradery among German soldiers, which the German army consciously promoted because it worked so well at making soldiers fight better, was much more effective at making German soldiers surrender. A strategy that has been tested and is very effective: researchers recently looked at a group of volunteers who went door to door in an attempt to increase tolerance for trans people. The volunteers would start the conversation with 'have you ever felt excluded?', and then would try to mostly listen to the test subject they were trying to convince. During the conversation the test subjects would already start being milder about trans people. And it turned out that after 3 months they were still more positive about trans people. The shift in thinking about trans people was larger than there had been in the entire U.S. between 1998 and 2012 towards LGBT people, in fact. Maybe a bit of weird post, but thought all these insights would be interesting to share here.

Guy broke into the old man's house and threatened him with a weapon. That's grounds for defending yourself. If someone threatens your life you shouldn't consider if they actually mean it or not. Always assume they will try to harm you. I can't blame the man for killing the guy because if he didn't we'd probably be reading about an old man getting slaughtered by a burglar instead.

oh yeah my bad, mixed up ages the home owner is still in the right though and you're wrong, he wasn't just "standing in the house"

Fuck.That. Shit. They just cant be helped ever and are really fucking different from us, no way my tribalistic urges lead to a vicious cycle or anything, it feels good to let my rage out!

What do you have against self defense, exactly?

Im not at all against enforcing laws and even killing in defense, I just really really really hate the dehumanization and absolute hatred im seeing, its actually pretty much scary to see such open dehumanization and broad generalizations getting mass appeal. It may not be racism, but it literally plays off the same disgusting urges racists have.

I don't think anybody's arguing that the man in the article shouldn't have defended himself, it's more about gypsies/travelers in general. My post was, anyway.

Imo this traveler hate is no different from hating drug addicts, homeless, the poor. Its people looking for ways to direct their innate human aggression and tribalism, and now that racism is uncool it manifests in other ways, apparently even more difficult to notice ways.

@spenver was arguing that he shouldn't have defended himself, as a matter of fact. Or, you know, it's justified because travellers/gypsies are legitimately recognized as dangerous/trouble-causing not due to any arbitrary factors or false equivalences but because the lifestyles which they have deliberately embraced is built around crime and rabid reactions to outside threats.

Who are you quoting?

I don't hate those people as a group but nor am I going to restrain myself if someone from one of those groups kicks in my door. I don't think that makes sense. Someone who breaks into someone else's house and menaces them with a knife is obviously a vile person regardless of their circumstances. There is no justification for that.

So the group has a cultural problem of creating criminals...so? Poor African Americans after slavery did the same, did we group them as one and give no help because "they make their own choices?" Oh yeah, many did think that way, didnt they?

If you actually lived around drug addicts I doubt you'd be quite as sympathetic. Actually living in a poor neighbourhood really gives you a different perspective on these types of people, it can be genuinely scary when you come across them because you dunno what the fuck they're gonna do.

Uh read the thread then because this individual occurrence is hardly the meat of the issue. Im of the mind that even if its practically beneficial to kill to survive, ill never act like its a good thing. It should always be avoided.

Drug addicts, the homeless and the poor don't willingly sit down and embrace these lifestyles and use them as excuses to be criminals, and those who do are typically considered to be nutjobs or undesirable weirdos. There's a massive difference between a victim of circumstances being at a bad point in their lives and an entire community of people joining efforts to live criminal lives while off the grid, constantly abusing people within their own community who cannot defend themselves or people from outside their communities who cannot react without becoming criminals themselves. Your false equivalences are idiotic. The gypsies aren't the homeless, they're not other minorities, they're Gypsies. The problem which they present is very unique to them.

They are literally people like you or me who got given a bad hand. You could be them, I could be them. Why the fuck wouldnt i sympathize with another human?

This is how I know you've never actually dealt with them.

Yeah I dunno. I dont really see it as possible for them to "choose" to want this lifestyle when they're born into it. You can punish them and all, but whats the point of such spiteful and hateful beliefs? Seems like a complete failure to empathize tbh

Right so you've never actually had to deal with some random twitchy fuck in the street who could potentially knife you any second.

I live in america, of course i could imagine such scenarios in many places i go. That doesnt mean i lose my empathy for them, im sorry dude but i guess we just have different worldviews.

Yes and yours clearly comes from a lack of actual experience. If you actually grew up in a poorer place you'd understand why people hold low opinions of these kinds of people. You're only so sympathetic because it's a distant issue for you that essentially has no impact on your life.

A traveller who knew Vincent for years warned that the dead man's relatives and friends were out for blood. He said: 'They won't get over a death of one of their own and they won't rest until they get their revenge. 'They'll go armed with whatever they've got – guns, knives, anything that they can lay their hands on. There is nothing that they won't do to get their own back on this pensioner.' Am I missing something here? They straight up threatening to kill this guy just because he defended himself. Sounds like they're going to actually act out on their own human aggression and tribalism huh?

Okay. I don't really know what actually justifies losing empathy for them? Im talking about empathy, not just sympathy.

I can understand that, but c'mon, are we really going to have this attitude towards drug addicts too now? What I'm detecting from your post is 'fuck them', correct me if I'm wrong. That isn't really the best way to go about these societal problems.

S So you fight fire with fire...?

I'm going to humor you one more time with those idiotic false equivalences but that's the last time I'm willing to comment on these, because they are consistently stupid and wrong. Black minorities in the United States have to a significant extent been institutionally constrained to living in poor neighborhoods with failing infrastructure on all levels. The increased criminality of these areas is not the result of an inherently criminal culture/mindset but the result of institutional segregation which has managed to find its way in many different aspects of the USA's society and industry. While typically black ghetto culture may in part glorify crime and the general difficulty of life in these areas, this is more the result of the inability to leave a majority of these people experience, leading to them glorifying whatever they are allowed to have. Traveller communities are not forced by anyone but themselves to live the lifestyles they live. They are in many ways more akin to a cult than any communities you have so poorly attempted to equate them to. Their existence as nomadic, independent groups which leave outside of the grid is not the result of any modern segregation or systemic oppression save for the one they subject to themselves. I've said so before in the thread and I'll say it again: gypsy communities fall apart as soon as the individual families which compose them, especially the children, are pulled out of the group and made to integrate a society which is designed to reprimand theft and abuse, not encourage it.

It's not really saying anything, I'm just explaining why people dislike them. I'm more talking about criminals who go around attacking people and stealing shit because they fucked their own lives up, or the person who burgles old people, not the poor homeless addict who went through bad times. I find the people who call out others for disliking criminal types are the sort of people who've never had to live with them.