Furious vigilante films himself tearing down shrine to dead burglar. - Sensationalist Headlines

you just have a different jurisprudence than these people, a different way of thinking about justice. it's normal, but honestly you seem to be a little bit like a "might makes right" kinda guy instead of favoring well-being over relatively arbitrary things like "private property ownership." I mean shit, you can in fact favor the guy's private property rights to his apples more than the guy's ability to live...but that's just not what I think, at least.

It sounded like you were but I may have misread. And no you don't need to repeat it, good God, I never said that. I don't know what it is that I'm saying that translates to "poor people shouldn't go to jail for committing crime".

I'm not talking about the actual food items, i'm talking about the jobs of the workers Management won't give a shit if it was Mother Theresa herself that walked out without paying for an item, they'll give the devil eye to the Manager who will then cut down on the workers in the shop itself. Enough people shoplifting from a shop results in termination of jobs and thats simply not fair to cause someone to lose their job because you stole shit, homeless or not.

I think it's a little bit society's job to help everyone within it, to at least give them the resources to not suffer to the point they practically NEED to do something dirty to survive.

Well yeah i agree, thats why i agree with having a welfare state but i just don't agree with people putting other peoples jobs in danger even if they're in a desperate situation.

I corrected myself and extrapolated a little, but basically it amounts to; "Gypsy" doesn't cover a specific ethnicity and is rather an umbrella term covering a large chunk of traveller communities which happens to include Romani communities, albeit the Romani rarely call themselves Gypsies because it's an intrinsically pejorative term, which by its pervasive nature has become synonymous with the less desirable groups of travellers which are famous for their crime sprees and disregard for authority.

Oh, interesting, didn't know that. Thanks

Main issue about Gypsies in particular is that they are often willing to take advantage of that ideology but also refuse to embrace the inherent requirements which fall within it as well. It's extremely common here to find families of Gypsies attempt to take advantage of every last bit of generosity people have, be it through infrastructure or just single actions, only to turn around and continue being arseholes within minutes. Besides, Gypsies in particular are not so poor they cannot afford food. They are certainly not rich, but they get around far more than you'd think. They're resourceful but use that resourcefulness in the shittiest ways.

Don't compare stealing apples from a market to breaking into somebody's home to rob them.

That argument is beyond the scope of talking about Travellers. They actively refuse attempts at integration and abuse Societal Goodwill. When I was in School we had 6 Gypsy kids who came in at different points throughout my time there, and none of them stayed longer than a term. Whenever 'the new kid' was there (not everyone knew they were gypsies upon arrival), it became swiftly evident when the windows of the Special-Needs tutoring room had rocks thrown at them while class was in session, when the sports changing rooms were broken into and peoples phones stolen or smashed, and when the Gypsy kids were never in class while any of this happened. They barely even attended class at all for that matter, and I remember the police had to be called once because one of the kids threw chairs and tried to punch at the teacher on walkabout duty. Word travelled fast, and when the Gypsy camp outside town moved away, lo and behold, so did the kid until it began all over again a term or two later. Travellers aren't poor people, they travel all over the place and can afford the fuel to do so, and many of them collect dole money from the UK and Irish Government after residing there the minimum amount of time. They still TVs, Kitchen appliances (even full on Hobs and Fridges) and Tradesmans tools. We recently moved into our house that'd had some serious work done on it, and our move was delayed for a week because one night some Gypsies cut into the steel shipping container in our back garden, drove a van across the farmland we back onto, loaded up all the tools and drove through a wooden fence to get away. We followed the tire tracks across the mud while it was still fresh and they went onto the road and couldn't be followed past the roundabout. Re: Crays Farm posted above, I live near there. It utterly destroyed the nearby towns, their crime rates rocketed and the A127 that it backs onto started getting sofa's and rubbish thrown onto it while traffic was passing. Some 13 year old also wandered out of the camp and tried to cross the A road to get to McDonalds (An A-road is a smaller Motorway, not sure what the American equivalent is, but you typically have 2/3 lanes per side of the road and the speed limit is 60/70 miles per hour) and was unsurprisingly hit by a car and killed. The Camp blocked the entire road for hours demanding a footbridge be built that would cost Millions and benefit nobody but allow their camp easier passage to the Retail Park on the other side of the road. And yeah the story is the Sun, the larger newspapers don't really cover Gypsy stories because they're so commonly known. You could have an inset page on any paper "Shit Gypsies did today:" https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/187585/the-moment-gypsies-cause-chaos-after-blocking-road-when-boy-13-was-killed-by-car-on-way-to-mcdonalds/ Obviously this is all personal experience, but crime spikes when Traveller camps pop up in and around town. They're not Victims, they're cunning swindlers and scam-artists. This isn't some "poor guys do what they need to do to feed their family and make ends meet". If you live in the UK, as someone rightfully said in another FP thread (I believe it was the London Parents that made their kids watch IS beheading videos), the Government will feed you everything you need to support a family and get you on your feet. With these people it's not some cultural pride thing, these people are just manipulative and cruel by choice.

This might be a foreign concept to you but a society capable of helping the poor needs its citizens to pay a high tax percentage. As someone shaped by such a society let me be very clear: Unnecessarily mooching money from the state is heavily frowned upon. It is literally what breaks the system. Now imagine a parallel society within your functioning welfare state actively mooching as much off the state as possible. Money that could be spend on your grandmas elderly care, your sick mum or genuine people in need of help. Without even touching upon the criminal aspect you should be able to tell that such a culture is a sickness that cannot be tolerated.