Distracted driver destroys family's treasured 1931 Ford Model A - Sensationalist Headlines

It’s kind of weird how you refuse to see maybe your perspective here isn’t the be all end all. Pieces of of property like this are the last vestiges of an age long gone. They serve as a reminder of our history, the family history, and engineering marvels that changed our world in innumerable ways. You don’t see that? Care about that? Fine, but it’s a pointless thing to express if you have nothing more than it to add.

It is indeed an item but that's about as far as I will go in agreeing with you. You can't replace it, you can't repair it to the original state it was in before and you can't compare it to a consumer good like a PC. I would go as "far" to say that a Ford model A isn't a consumer good either anymore as it's part of the oldest cars still driving on the road. People definitely care more about their cars than you care about your PC from what I can tell by your post. Nonetheless, the fact that you compared a >90 year old antique vehicle that has been within a family for 45 years with an incredible history to your own consumer grade PC doesn't really fly with me - it's not a good comparison and it shows you really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to cars. Which is fair - but realise that when you're arguing about something you don't know much about, take a step back and don't argue for the sake of arguing but to expand your horison. I'd also like to add that you've several times argumented that "just be happy no one died" - the car was parked and no one was anywhere near it. We could definitely cheer that no one died, but there's really no reason to when the car wasn't actually being driven. Bit of a side note, but I felt like it needed clearing up.

You are right I don't see why it's so irreplaceable. It's a sentimental piece that can be repaired. It's not like it's some long lost craft that no one in the world could hope to reproduce. You are right that I don't masturbate over cars, it's not my interest. I would be what some guy earlier called an A-B tard. In the sense that what I want from my vehicle is to get me from point A to point B without issues and that's all there is to it. And yes my PC has less monetary value, that's not the point the point is I know how it feels to be heavily invested in something and have spent countless hours and resources on it. it's an item, not a person, it can be repaired, I can live without it. They can repair the car, they can live without it. To the thing about it being parked, yes, I am aware my point is still that if you use it or bring it anywhere it can be damaged or stolen yet everyone acts like it's the death of the last panda or some other endangered irreplaceable being. Obviously most people here don't agree with me thinking it's overreacting. I know it feels shitty but if they knew they would cry about it this much then don't fucking take it out public and keep it inside to look at or drive it on a private road away from people who you don't trust around it.

Once again, you really need to take a step back and listen to what people are telling you. I'm glad you clarified that you don't care much about cars - but then don't go into a discussion that you have no actual place in. The car cannot be turned into the state it was before the accident, so please stop saying it can be repaired. The original parts will no longer be original and the parts that once moved the car along will have to be replaced. This is very important as it affects both the historical value, the value for the family and the actual monetary value of the car itself. Even the engine block cracked, so they'll most likely have to find a replacement engine as cracks are very hard to properly mend. Once again, it shows that you either do not listen to what we're saying or you just argue for the sake of arguing instead of listening and taking in the points we're trying to make. You can't repair the damage properly without replacement and once parts are replaced, it's no longer in an otherwise somewhat original state. If you had interest in reading what people are posting in the thread, you'd have realised this by now. Another side note - I try to keep discussions like this at a civil tone, so I expect you to do the same. There's no need for elitist sentences such as "I don't masturbate over cars".

You don't see why it's irreplaceable? You think you can just pop down to the Ford dealership and buy another 1931 Model A? Really? A car that has survived for 87 years can't just be replaced. When it's gone, it's gone. There will be one less forever afterward. You live in Denmark for Christ's sake, you are surrounded by irreplaceable history. You can't walk down a street in major Danish cities without passing buildings that have stood for 700 years. I don't see how you can be so apathetic about antiquity.

Congrats on being one of the most obnoxious facepunchers since the sanius squad

SKS is either a hardcore shitposter who leaked out of the old goldmember forum's ass, or he's just a downright teenage contrarian who refuses to relate to anyone or anything. Don't try to explain anything to him because he'll just make up a reason as to why that's not valid. He's not worth your time man. Anyway; It's pretty tragic that this car got destroyed, historical value aside, I can't imagine the sentimental value the thing must hold to that family. With that said, I don't think I would use a car like that as a daily driver for that reason. Maybe take it out every weekend with the wife and kids but I wouldn't drive it to work and park it on the street. It getting totaled was an inevitability.

Right right It can never be the same. We could never mold the parts again from the same type of metal. Seeing how much it has already been used I'm sure a fair bit of parts have been replaced already. Also I can post where ever I want even if I am not as invested in the topic as some other posters my initial post wan't even negative and people flipped cause I don't hold a piece of machinery at the same level as them. The masturbate part was supposed to be taken as a fun jab not an attack. I'm sorry if you felt it that way. Sorry that I don't put a 87 year old car at the same level as 700 year old buildings, ruins or world wonders that there are exactly one of in the world, each. Both your logic reminds me of the old paradox where if you replace all the parts of a ship slowly. will it still be the same ship when you replace the last part? What if you build the old ship from all the old parts? what now? You do realize that a human will have replaced every single cell in their body in a span of 7 years right? Are they not the same person to you then? My point is pretty much that, if it holds sentimental value then even if you replace the parts it will still be the same car. Sure the market might not think that but I don't think they would be interested in selling the car in the first place. So let's agree that it's a really unfortunate event for them and that we hope they get it sorted out one way or another yeah?

I'm not real big on cars myself, don't know a hell of a lot about them, but I found it pretty crazy that a collision like that managed to crack the engine block. That must have something to do with how the engine blocks were made and a lack of protection from the frame and other components around the engine, because that would honestly be the last thing I'd expect to break from a collision like that. I suppose if one were to replace all the parts of a ship with reproductions, then rebuild the same ship somewhere else out of the original parts, it would be a really bizarre and time consuming way to move a ship.

Seems to me like he was trying to respond to the "We should beat up this woman for destroying this priceless historical artifact" argument and he did so in a way that seemed objectionable, as said more eloquently. And honestly, I agree. I'd disagree if it hadn't already been rebuilt and if it was all original, or if it was something that wasn't mass-produced, or if it was rare, but none of those are true. There just isn't the "valuable historical artifact" allure to something that we already have originals of in museums, that there are still many of them rolling around on the roads today, and that you can grab off of ebay for less than the price of a new standard car. Obviously it has sentimental value, but unless you want to prescribe to the Made in Abyss model of a personal value driven market then the "beat her up" comment is completely unjustified.

You can definitely post wherever you like. However, I feel like discussions where one part definitely does not understand the bigger picture and has no interest in understanding the bigger picture are completely fruitless. It's not like I just randomly thought up "if you keep replacing original parts, the car loses its originality" - it's a completely normal view within the autmotive community and it really isn't a view to be debated when it objective measuring points in the monetary value of the car. I mean - you could theoretically debate it - but the debate won't go anywhere as facts are facts and the car will lose value after being in a quite violent accident.

SKS' first post in the thread is above my quote of your post. He's not responding to anyone calling for violence against this woman, and actually not responding to anyone at all. He entered the thread with the sort of abstract objectivity of a bad TNG Data fan-fiction. It's one thing to be objective, and it's another to completely disregard the value of a familial item. "Wow why are these people upset? It's JUST AN ITEM and they got $5,000 to fix it" is a garbage argument and a garbage thing to say about a sentimental object being destroyed. Yea it's not priceless but it's still worth something to that family. Get a grip dood. Another thing; nobody in this thread is saying we should beat the shit out of this women, or beat her at all. The most I saw was "wow shes a cunt". Don't pretend like SKS was being the voice of reason in a thread full of violent hatemongers.

Think he's talking about that guy up there. That's the only reply like that in the whole thread though afaik.

But.. JRichard literally did say that. It didn't appear to me that he was denying the subjective value of it, only the objective value. Objectively, it is 'just a car', and not because all cars are worthless... but Model A's are not rare, so the biggest travesty here is that a car that people cared about got damaged. That's not nothing, but it's also not 'irreparably destroying history' when it's already been rebuilt.

Even old ruins, churches wonders you name it, get renovated, repaired and replaced. The mentality that you can use something and it won't have to have parts changed baffles me. The car has been used and repaired so much that any real value it had long ago is pretty much lost by now or at least pales compared to other prime examples of this piece of craftsmanship. Here I am referring to Jackpody and the argument that in the world of car enthusiasts any slight damage or part replacement allegedly reduces the value of a car if anything has been done to the original parts. I'm not well informed on the car reselling market or collectors market so I can't stand by how credible his argument is but from what I could guess then yes the more pristine the car is the more valuable it must be viewed by a potential buyer. If that's the case then I don't see how a 87 year old car that has been used as much as stated in the original post can have any significant collectors value left other than the sentimental kind. If you go back and read again I never said that it had no value. I'm just saying that no, it does not have the same value as what it was compared to. I'd like to refer to this post as what they say is pretty much on point with what I think just worded way better than I could: They even went ahead to provide an ebay link to a whole list of relatively cheap bids compared to how unbelievably valuable this car supposedly is according to most people in this thread.

It sounds like the initial "rebuild" is the kind of freshening up many antique cars get after 50-60 years, especially if they had sat for a long time (as many Model As have). They dismantle it completely, check every surface for rust, inspect all moving parts, clean, hone, and replace anything broken, sometimes repaint/reupholster the car depending on the condition it's in, and reassemble it with all new fluids. This is an intensive process but it doesn't invoke the ship of Theseus issue because only wearing parts are usually replaced during this process. Components like the engine, transmission, and rear end can literally work for hundreds of thousands of miles with proper maintenance because these parts are so simple compared to modern cars. When you say "I rebuilt the car" that is really what you mean. I doubt the original rebuild involved replacing the entire drivetrain, a quarter of the bodywork, all the wheels and the frame. Having to do all of that now that the thing has been hit so hard means many more original parts will be replaced and the car is no longer as original as it used to be. Aside from the unfortunate requirement to throw away now broken antique components, newer reproduction replacement parts are often not comparable in terms of durability, quality, fit, and finish - so even setting aside the fact that original parts are being replaced, the car is still not going to be what it was. There is a kind of magic in seeing antiques - be that cars, artwork, furniture, guns, movie projectors, buildings, even fucking laundry machines - still working with all or mostly original components. The more you change and replace, the less original it is, the less impressive its survival becomes, and the less character and charm it has. So ideally, you should not be putting these things in situations where they have to undergo such extensive repairs. And anyone who inflicts that on such a nice survivor from history because of their own recklessness is a fucking moron. It literally doesn't matter if Model As are inexpensive or were mass produced. That's not the point. All fragments of our past have value and have something to teach us and should be preserved if there is someone who is willing and able to do it and it is practical for that person or organization to do it. Yes, you can go see one in a museum. That's not the same thing as getting to ride in it or drive it or work on it or otherwise interact with it. Museums are important institutions but they are not the only valid place for history to be kept alive.

I guess this is the mindset of some of the people born in the age of planned obsolescence it’s a fucking shame

Cars are meant to be driven, not waste away in a museum somewhere.

I applaud SKS for preemptively hopping on his high horse to make snarky remarks then. My point here is that monetary value isn't what defines historical value, and sentimental value is a thing too. Rarity also doesnt factor into historical value either. It doesnt matter if its not rare or worthless, its still valuable. And theyre not going to be rebuilding that car. Theyre just gonna end up building a new one because nothing is salvageable from it if the article is correct.

Where is this value derived from? Is this not the logic of a hoarder - that all things old are necessarily of value regardless of use or price or personal sentiments? This goes against the following part of your post, too: "if there is someone who is willing and able to do it and it is practical for that person or organization to do it." So is the value of a piece of the past inherent in it having somehow survived said past, or is this value sentimental, as proven by people choosing to preserve it? In addition, not to be victim blaming here, if one absolutely values a piece of the past and one takes into account the obvious chance of traffic accidents - is it not also a kind of recklessness to follow through with driving it in an uncontrolled environment and put this valued piece at risk of damage?

Grandpas old war medals are just items, old letters from your gran who died last year are just items, historical pieces that are hundreds or thousands of years old that are in museums are just items, no one should care if they get lost or destroyed ;)

Well that situation sucks. I'd be in tears too. You just finished this nice thing and spent a whole bunch of time making it and probably spent a boatload in having parts custom machined for it. You just got a taste of being excited about getting to maintain and clean it, probably nerding out comparing the shine of different kinds of wax. Annnnnddddd some drunk dickhead on their phone comes by and hits it with a shitty Corolla and is just like "lol well good luck finding a new one" Not only that but as someone on the first page pointed out, not just hit the car, but was completely unaware of the impact until after she had accelerated onto the car and completely totaling it

I'm not saying it should collect dust in a museum or a garage, but there are options other than public roads to take a vehicle, private roads or quiet undriven roads would be a wiser choice.

Quiet rural roads still have frequent accidents due to people’s lowered guard. Not everyone has access to private roads. Speaking as an insurance professional, the family should have had extensive private coverage through Hagerty, Lloyds, or a variety of options. I highly doubt the family used this as a daily driver, so those coverages would be applicable. That said, the fault is 100% in the drunk, distracted driver. Anyone who blames this on the family is wrong. This is the result of poor choices on one party only. The insurance company is now in possession of the wreck. They will classify it salvage. It is entirely up to them, whether the family can buy it back. There may very well be no second restoration. People who disrespect pieces of history, and say nothing was really lost here are incredibly childish. There is a value, sentimental or otherwise, to these items. They aren’t more valuable than life itself, but they’re important and they DO matter. No one here who says a material good doesn’t matter is able to apply that to their own life effectively, would be my guess. Value our past so we might learn from it, and everything it represents.

Does anyone seriously say nothing was lost in this thread, though? Most arguments I've seen here seem to suggest that at the very least this car had tremendous sentimental value to the owners, and thus their anger is understandable. That a material good very obviously matters to people, and thus has very real value, does not mean the material good necessarily gains some sort of objective value by its continued existence, especially when one speaks of a mass produced item. Obviously, the original has value as it is these small signs of personal modification, natural decay and any damages that allow the owner to imbue this object with a historical sense of having a story of its own - but is this not sentimental value, as opposed to objective historical value? Objects of the past have value insofar as what they have to teach us we neither already know nor refuse to learn. The historical value of such mass produced yet privately owned objects here seem to me to purely derive themselves from a kind of fixing in stone over time of the sentimental value of its owners. History should be respected, but not out of some universal value - rather, out of what it has to teach us and of what use it has (that is, instrumental value). The obvious argument is that we cannot know the potential future instrumental value of the knowledge to be derived from an object, and thus the object should be preserved - but is this really true when one speaks of an object of which we possess the blueprints and instructions of manufacture? If I'm wrong and this post is dumb, please explain to me why, because I genuinely wish to understand.

They will never make another car like this though. Even if they did, it would be a modern car. There’s a limit to how’s many of these exist, even if they were mass produced. Mechanical typewriters were also mass produced but they’re a expensive item now due to the fact so many were strangely destroyed. Future generations won’t get to play with them like I did when I was a kid and have that inspiration. The same is to be said here. And yes yes people have expressed that.

It baffles you because you don't understand it. I'm being blunt here but you keep making assumptions that just aren't in any way related to the actual inner workings of the automotive world. When a car has been in a proper shunt, the value will be forever decreased. Grenadiac explained it quite well - there is a massive difference between changing the wear parts and changing the structural / non-wear parts. If a car is properly maintained, things like a differential housing, an engine block, a frame and windows, trim pieces, etc. won't need replacing because they aren't wear parts. Things like bushings, bearings and gears will need service - but this is perfectly fine. Also notice that I never hinted at "slight" damage reducing the car's value. I said "being in an accident" will reduce the value. Though it should be noted that anything as small as a shunt into the side of the car can reduce the value dramatically had the car still been painted in its original paint (we're talking thousands and thousands of dollars / euros lost that insurance won't cover for) - but that's out of the question here as it does not appear the car was in its original paint. However, there is no real reason to debate this - it's just how it is and debating it won't change that when a car has been in an accident and its original engine block, frame, trim pieces etc. have been replaced, the car loses historic and sentimental value.

How the hell can someone have their background image set to some philosopher yet still have literally no concept of historical value.

let's raze machu picchu, it's just a bunch of ruins!

Except when I can go on ebay and buy a new one for a pretty low price. The medals and letters you mentioned have no real value yes. They might have sentimental value but they cant be used for anything nor can I sell granny's letters. In this case the car would have way more monetary and historic value than both the letters and medals no? and that seems to be what people complain about being lost. Also no I do not think that an old car is at the same level as lets say the Eiffel tower or old relics in museums. Thank you for the well informed post on how damage can decrease a cars value. I have a question then. Would it be possible to buy one of the cars on ebay and either move the still intact parts to it or salvage parts from that car onto the broken car?