Roseanne canceled by ABC for Roseanne's "abhorrent, repugnant" tweets - Sensationalist Headlines

That's interesting. He actually started kneeling as a gesture of respect when a soldier asked him politely to change his perspective, and they shared a perspective and both came away better people. Wow Programmer. Maybe you could learn.

How is patrorism political? Only conservatives can like their country? The anthem has no message except for the greatness and bravery of the country. It doesn't represent the government and its affaris at all. The context of stimulating patriotism isn’t political at all. That's what this whole argument comes down to. People see the kneeling offensive and you don’t. None of our opinions don’t and shouldn’t matter. The employer has that right.

Fuck me dude kneeling is literally the least disrespectful way to protest, would you rather they go out and burn cars and throw bricks through windows? Because that's what people do when you take away their ability to protest peacefully.

I support his right to protest fully. I also agree with the message. I also agree busineses have the right to boss their employees. Kaepernick is an employee of the NFL and is under their control. Just because you think he is spreading a good message doesn’t make him immune to company policy.

I don't think it was strictly company policy that football players had to stand during the anthem. It is now, sure but certainly not when Kaepernick started his protest.

Phew and here I was thinking maybe America held personal freedoms as more important than the will of some sleazy corporation. "One nation under Company Policy" as the pledge of allegiance goes right?

That’s true. I’m just arguing against the people who say it’s unfair because it violates the freedom of speech when they don’t believe in it themselves.

You jumped the gun there. Patriotism is inherently political, but not partisan. You made it partisan as soon as you opened your mouth here to assume I'd foisted it onto you. I didn't, I stated the reality that patriotism is political

No one is forcing you to work for sleazy companies. Their house their rules. If this was the government forcing players to stand I would say exactly what you’re saying.

It likely became company policy purely as a result of out-cry from the sort of people who might be perfectly okay with the bullshit Roseanne was saying, or at least it wouldn't surprise me. The difference @Programmer is that one can support a company being okay with firing an employee for an incredibly inflammatory action (ie racism) but not be okay with a company punishing employees for doing something that's only inflammatory to the ignorant/those looking for any reason at all to hate someone/something (kneeling during the anthem) because somebody (*cough* Fox News *cough*) told them it was disrespectful for them to do so.

Who are you to determine what’s offensive to someone?

God I don't understand America, everyone screams from the rooftops about freedom and liberty until your boss takes away your rights and suddenly "hurr thats your fault idiot you should have read your contract".

But I don't think you're even really understanding the arguments being put forth to be fair. 1) ABC has the right to fire employees for behaviours that they don't want to be associated with 2) The NFL has the same right, and has exercised that by not hiring several of the "Kneelers" like Kaepernick himself who still remains unsigned, likely at the behest of the President of the United States(as immoral, unethical and unbelieveablely petty as that is) 3) People(all of us) have the right to agree or disagree with the actions of any company as they see fit(which also factors in to the actions those companies are willing to be associated with) There's no inconsistency in supporting athletes in a primarily black sport(68% of the league is black) protesting in the politest manner possible, and one sactioned by veterans who've personally dealt with Kaepernick, and supporting ABC distancing themselves from a drunk, and high on ambien social media user like Roseanne. They're both efforts based purely on the desires of the owners and what they see as the most prudent moves for their PR campaigns. Donald Trump has personally applied pressure to the NFL on this issue. To think that ABC is hypocritical in this instance is ridiculous IMO.

The government telling you what to do is much much much different than what your boss says. You voluntarily work for a company. Don’t like that? Awesome, we have a beautiful free market where you can be your own boss! What is so hard to understand about that?

That is such idealistic and untrue trite

also Kaepernick protested for weeks before anyone really noticed and Rosanne was fired less than a day after she made her tweet so I think the latter is a bit more disruptive.

It's technically true trite in that you can become your own boss, however, it makes this claim under the false pretense that you can successfully be your own boss.

who’s fault is that?

Mine for being poor, I guess.

You don’t have to be rich to have s successful company. What’s the point you’re trying to make? It’s only the company owners fault for having a unsuccessful one.

After being pressured by a crowd of people pissed off because someone else told them to be pissed off about it in a completely non-contextually-aligning manner. Therefor, many find it completely ridiculous.

Can you blame them for saving face?

For appeasing a mass of willfully mis-informed people that basically en-masse went all "I WANT TO SPEAK TO YOUR MANAGER!", yes.

Yes. The NFL shouldn't kowtow to a bunch of pseudo-patriots for being pissed off about black people peacefully protesting over very real and very legitimate issues. If they want to avoid politicization, then perhaps they should remove the anthem entirely.

We have two major disagreements that are key to this argument. The first one is the understanding of business. A business has one goal and one goal only: to make a profit. It's not there for social justice and a platform to protest. If you step in the shoes of the NFL stakeholders and see that you're losing business and being defamed you would want to respond accordingly to stop the decline of revenue. Businesses should definitely have restrictions so that workers are treated humanely and fairly. That doesn't mean they should be able to do whatever they want at work. No one is forcing you to work at a "corrupt" company, you voluntarily give up some rights in some cases so it promotes the success of the business. Your constitutional rights are not uniform. They are handled differently when it comes to the government and private entities. You have the right to protest in public but it's up to your employer when you're doing it at their business. The second disagreement is that the national anthem is political. No one here can clearly tell me how it is political. Yes, I understand it was implemented to promote patriotism during the world wars. That's what the anthem is for in the first place, to represent the country as a whole. You are at some understanding that the anthem is about the government, that's the only way it could be politically - if it represents the government. The context of implementing the anthem still does not make it political. Yes, the government was promoting patriotism, but patriotism is the love for one's country, not the government, there is a difference. The only way you could disagree with the anthem is that you disagree with the United States as a whole. That's why people are upset, especially veterans because they fought for the freedom of the country and it is seen as offensive by them. I know you guys don't see it as offensive but that is not for you to judge and that is where the problem lies. At the end of the day it's none of our business what the NFL or ABC wants to do with their employees when it is within the right of the law.

So apparently they might make a spin off about Sara Gilbert's Darlene character, and John Goodman is "very interested".

So people can still voice their support for a decision one way or the other they literally have that right and choice

I agree. I support everyone's right to voice their opinion but i'm just trying to respectfully refute your viewpoint even though none of ours matter, like I said.

An anthem is typically said or sang to give praise to a country. If you are praising a country with a stylized rendition of a traditional song you are explicitly making a political statement about your support for the country. Not singing it doesn't mean you disagree with the United States as a whole, that's i ridiculously nonsensical statement to even make. It simply means you don't identify with at least some of the values and civics that exist in your nation. I'm not spinning this shit out of nowhere; a simple Google search will show you why Kaepernick knelt. That veterans of all people would become upset at something declining to stand for the anthem and instead choose to kneel silently is stupid. American veterans died in the name of defending a country where people can peacefully protest like that without worrying about an "or else". As for the supposed hypocrisy (hint: there is none), HumanAbyss covered it perfectly in his post that you have yet to reply to.

Definition of political: relating to the government or the public affairs of a country Definition of nation anthem: a solemn patriotic song officially adopted by a country as an expression of national identity I still fail to see how you connect the national anthem to "relating to the government or the public affairs of a country" the national anthem in a symbol of America just like the flag and bald eagle. There is no politics attached to it. That's like protesting the bald eagle because you disagree with the president and want to end police brutality. These symbols have nothing to do with public policy, the president, congress, etc. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely want to end racism and police brutality but these symbols have nothing to do with it. The racists and the police have something to do with it. Go out and protest near a police station or out a local white supremacist. There is no need to disrespect the whole country because of some of the bad things in it. You guys want to paint me as some racist, no I am trying to put blame where it is due and give power to where it belongs.