Rafael Nadal: World no 1 sparks row with shock equal pay admission - Sensationalist Headlines

If women's matches were the same length (which they won't change because they actually consider the attributes of the female body in comparison to men) then it would be perfectly okay the prize money to be the same. There also emerges a new argument however, that women have an unfair disadvantage already and that in the scheme of things they should deserve the same prize as their abilities match the accomplishment. That being said... you will never see a 5 hour women's tennis match. And for me, the money's worth was always the men's final.

Equality of opportunity is necessary for a free society, but mandated equality of outcome is not just undesirable, but actively counter to that free society. Bigger prizes because you're statistically less likely to be good at something falls into forced equality of outcome.

This makes no sense to me in a world where Serena and Venus Williams exist and have been the top tennis players in the world for years. Please explain why everyone knows why this is common sense. please explain common sense to me.

It's literally impossible for women to compete in men's league though, how is that equality of opportunity?

the prize money comes from the fans and the fans get more for their money when they watch a longer game. it's not about "free society" because you know full well how prize money is funded and where the money is distributed. You want equality, you solve it from the bottom up, you get the people who fund the business to start better practice to ensure there is equal opportunities in key areas. That is a general argument about all sport, my only argument is that women's tennis games are shorter. The price for a women's final ticket is less than the men's too..

I don't think anyone is saying that women should compete against men in sports, you're right that it's almost impossible for them to do so fairly. I think it's ridiculous that you find it unfair that one sport is cared less about than another, it's just a sport and because it has women playing it does not make it any more of one. You shouldn't police or force peoples interests, if they simply don't care then it should be left at that. It's not unfair that some people don't care.

Nadal $100,564,598 Serena $84,811,149 🤔

She's more dominant over other women. She's nowhere close to being more skilled. One on one he would absolutely destroy her. It wouldn't even be close.

Why do you think people don't care tho? It's pretty obvious men's sports are featured more prominently in just about every type. I shouldn't need to cite a source for that. Where do you get this fucking idea I'm "policing" people's interests? I just think women's sports should be promoted on equal terms as men's. Do you think I want a feminist Gestapo to change channels for people at gunpoint?

So you're saying put them up against people who are on human(natural) steroids and see how well that goes? They'll lose. Almost every time, without fail. One of the shitty things we have to just accept is peak physical condition men, and women are different. They have different levels they can go to. Female atheletes are impressive as hell, I often think of the winner of the MOAB 240 Endurance race, Kourtney, when I'm running as inspiration because of how incredible that kind of thing is. Even though they're that impressive though, that simple seperation of a testosterone gland is significant enough to create a major comepetive challenge in most sports arenas. Men have stronger muscles, denser muscles, denser bones, while women have higher pain tolerances and higher grip strengths as well as a lighter overall frame which makes a variety of endurance activities a bit easier. You put people with distinct differences in the same arena, there's going to be common outcomes from that.

I don't know how you can with certainty prove that.

Mens sports are likely featured more because they're faster, harder and they've been paid to perform at a higher skill level for a longer period of time. I think womens sports should be paid equally to mens sports but if you're asking "Why is there a disparity" you may have to brace yourself for an answer you don't like. A lot of people don't like watching a slower paced game. As a big hockey fan I watch the WHL(Womens Hockey League) on occasion and the games are fast, hard hitting and pretty entertaining. But flip over to an NHL game in play, and it's faster. Noticeably so. It's harder. Noticably so. Those are the elements people are watching for, by and large. Sports afficianodos who really know the given sport may be watching for the skill of the game but not all watchers are.

Perhaps I could've worded my point a bit better, I didn't mean you were policing anyone's interests and you most certainly are not in a position to do so (obviously), I thought it important to iterate the point that no one should be forcing or policing anyone's interests. Since I've stated a few times in this thread the reasons why I think women's sports or women's tennis in particular receives less attention than their men's equivalents, I'm going to ask you the same question. Why do you think they don't receive as much attention?

Maybe dudes get paid more in sports because sports have historically have been a boys club only. Women's organizations dedicated to the sport have been a relatively recent phenomenon and would most likely have less money to throw around.

Calling it a "boys club only", isn't exactly true. There are plenty of examples of women (tennis in particular) playing sports going back hundreds of years. Women's tennis competitions were first added in 1874 to Wimbledon so the concept of women in sports isn't exactly new. Players in entertainment sports played by men traditionally get paid more because they are driving bigger ticket sales and advertising opportunities, I would agree there is less money to throw around for advertising of women's sports however that doesn't mean you should be forcing popularity instead of allowing it to grow organically.

I dunno if we can say with certainty that mens tennis matches are more popular. Are we just taking this dude's word that mens tennis fills statdiums more than womens?

I can't find any solid statistics for ticket sales or ratings for both women's and men's statistics except for a metro article from 2016 which does quote them. Let there be no misunderstanding, if women sports get more viewers and ticket sales then they should be paid more as a result. Source

You clearly have never watched tennis in your life. It's no secret that Serena wouldn't stand a chance against top male tennis players let alone against two of the greatest of all time. Btw in 1998 Serena and Venus were both destroyed by the then 203rd ranked male player in the world at the time. This was a year before Serena won 2 singles grand slams and was the year she had already won 3 doubles slams.

I haven't watched very much, you're right! Okay why? Why specifically couldn't Serena beat the top male tennis players? Is it just testosterone or what?

For a lot of people who haven't played tennis, there is a very real difference between the way women and men play. There's a reason that the two genders have separate tournaments, and as much as it sounds sexist the best men's player will almost always beat the best women's player by a significant amount. It comes down to playstyle, testosterone advantage, strength, and a whole host of other factors that I'm not qualified to try and bring up. The same thing holds true in many other sports, and it's why for the most part almost all professional sports are divided by gender. It's a very real biological thing and not just sexism as much as it may seem like it. I've played tennis for ten years and used to play competitively, and I've had my ass handed to me multiple times by multiple women who were leagues better. I don't really have any comments to add on the debate of equal pay that haven't already been brought up. I just wanted to bring a little perspective for people who've never touched a racquet in their life. Interesting page on wikipedia for those interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)

She's just not as good of a tennis player. Whether it's up to testosterone or other factors is up to a scientist to say, not me. If you say you can't prove it because she hasn't played Nadal or Federer you'd be kind of right. But that means you also can't say Lebron James is a better basketball player than the guy at my local gym.

It's a little different. Random guy at your local gym probably doesn't have a career in professional sports that I can look to compare between two people.

Ok, how about comparing Lebron to the best G-League players, the best WNBA players or the best NBL players? They're all professionals but it's clear which league not only has the best players but the best talent throughout.

She deliberately trains with men to play at a higher level than she'll encounter on the regulated court, and they routinely kick her ass. So does her sister. How do you think she keeps her edge?

The biological divide is real. People used to scream “biotruth” when they heard this shit. I don’t think it matters beyond the realm of sports really, but at least in sports many of the sports are divided by gender. There’s a reason meh and women run different Olympic track events, and it’s not sexism. It’s that men literally generate more footpounds of force and propel themselves faster and harder than a woman can realistically do at peak condition. Peering peak condition athletes of each sex against one another will almost always result in the man winning due to innate power advantages, fat and glycol stores as well as different bodily composition. Women are not lesser at all, and I think skill level in sports can be very comparable between the genders but the power outputs and body composition can do a lot.

I don't think anyone here has denied men have a biological advantage over women when it comes to sports or Tennis or said to end gender-segregated sports. I personally just think they should be treated of equal merit and promoted equally, and that means having an equal prize pool.

It's not really one of those things that needs proving. It's a well known fact and obvious to anyone who knows anything about tennis. I know that sounds like an exaggeration, but it's not. The top level female tennis players aren't even close to the top level male players. For example, both Serena and Venus Williams actually did play the 203 ranked male player at one point, and they both lost by a large margin. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/tennis/aus/2017/01/21/serena-williams-nicole-gibbs-australian-open/96876832/) Here's Serena Williams in her own words: "Men's tennis and women's tennis are completely almost two separate sports. If I were to play Andy Murray, I would lose 6-0, 6-0 in maybe 5 to 6 minutes, maybe 10 minutes... The men are a lot faster. They serve harder, they hit harder, it's just a different game... I just want to play girls because I don't want to be embarrassed." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezwjJxXS718

personally I'm more interested in watching the best team compete than I am in watching the best women's team which is why we need to establish a new league where performance enhancing drugs are legal

Sure, but there's a reason we don't give out nickel and pewter medals to women and reserve silver/bronze/gold for men during the Olympics. The achievement of being the world's best can be just as impressive for a female athlete even if the absolute performances don't compare favourably to the men's category. Personally I think prize money could equally well reflect that as anything else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)#1998:_Karsten_Braasch_vs._the_Williams_sisters Braasch vs Williams sisters, 1998. Braasch isnt top 10. He's not top 20. He's not even top 100. He was ranked 203rd at the time. He beat both sisters, handily. And you think its not a certainty that one of the BEST male players in the world is better than either of the Williams sisters? People who dont follow sports seem to be absolutely unaware or unable to conceive the gargantuan gap in performance between men and women, particularly when it comes to facilities of speed and power.