[WHO] Trans is no longer classified a mental disorder - Sensationalist Headlines

Not a professional so I can't really question but I was under the belief that Gender Dysphoria was the mental disorder and reassignement was the cure, not that Transgenderism was a mental disorder. All an' it doesn't truly manifest like a biological component. It takes years of study, much like the other harder to define topics such as ADHD, to ascertain whether a child is trans or not. There is a core biological component to it but I thought the court was still out on how it operates and acts rather than whether its a mental disorder on its own.

correct big correct

what individual people do with their own bodies is their own damn business, i'm not sure why you care

Most trans people would choose to hit a button and instantly have all dysphoria fade but that isn't the case in reality and it likely never will be.

Please leave my country

Just out of curiosity, what would you suggest to a friend with dysphoria?

See a psychologist and have a very serious talk about what it is that you don't like about yourself and wish you could change, how you could change it, and where you want it to go to.

Be there and be supportive, and tell them that no matter what they end up doing, that you will be alright with it. Also, recommend that they see a gender therapist.

I was more talking in the context of my magicland world of magic bullet solutions where boith transitional surgery and the "be utterly fine with yourself as is" pill are equally effective solutions. Not to suggest I disagree with your real world assessments, far from it, I think most humans would (hopefully) support and encourage their friends to get professional help. But imagine we were in this magical theoryland, would you suggest your friend take the "be ok with your gender" treatment or the basically perfect reassignment surgery? Now let me preface this with a little clarification, I'm not trying to trap anyone with a "GOTCHA" I just genuinely want to know where people would stand on the matter, do you encourage the friend to follow this desire to change from one state to another or do you encourage them to stay where they are. Assuming that both states will not be the wrong choice and have mental or physical ramifications later on. It's a bit of a "data nerd" thing.

It's pretty sociopathic to expect others to change for your behalf instead of considering why you're uncomfortable in the first place. Are you disgusted because of what others tell you about transgender people, or is it because you know little about it and decided to fill in the blanks with the worst case scenarios and judge people based on that?

I don't see the point of the question/situation. Arguing in a vacuum of no wrong choice doesn't evolve any understanding or decision making. In the end I just want people to be happy and comfortable with themselves, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, people who can't tolerate differences, like the couple posters in this thread, excluded (not tolerating bigotry is different than being a bigot and if you can't understand that then you have the morality of a child). So as long as what they choose makes them happy than what am I to care?

"Spin it?" That's explicitly what it is. If you're not transitioning to cure dysphoria, then you're changing the gender of a person. If a trans-woman has her dysphoria cured without transitioning, you're re-wiring her brain to be a man. That's inherently changing who she is. A really sketchy road that I doubt many will like.

Well, it wouldn't really be any of my business. I'd still recommend that they see a thrapist so that they could make an informed decision themselves.

So I'll fully admit I'm ignorant on the subject and I'm looking to genuinely learn about it. For a long time I was in the camp of "it's a persons body, let them do whatever with it if it makes em feel better. Doesn't effect me and if it makes them happy good." Talked with a well meaning guy who's against that train of thought and thinks that it's a serious mental disorder that needs to be treated and studied and looked into more and that it does come from a place where he generally cares about the wellbeing of others. That trans folk have a low life expectancy and that a studies show a large amount of people that transition show a huge amount of regret about it later because "a lot of people feel they've destroyed themselves". (Or something similar). Talk went on for awhile but his stance basically ended with "if a majority of trans folk are killing themselves over it years later than shouldn't it be frowned upon and instead time went into helping them?" which I couldn't really come up with a argument for as I've never seriously thought about it. When trying to come up with examples one that stuck with me was "If a man comes into the hospital and says that he hates having two arms. He doesn't feel like it's right for his body and it makes him unhappy so he asks the doctors to cut one off he'd get sent away and classified as having something deeply wrong and troubling with him. While it's questionable that it wouldn't hamper a person as much how come it's seen as alright and acceptable to alter your body in a different way?" and again I couldn't really think of a reason. I do not hate trans people, I'm perfectly fine with getting to know trans folks and have legit no issue with them, but the discussion has kinda been on the back of my mind and I'd like to see how people react to it so I could get more opinions. If I'm being 100% honest I still don't fully care- you do you, but I'd at least like to have more understanding if possible.

what. there aren't a majority of trans people killing themselves because of regret. not even close. what is he talking about.

So apparently it's being classified as a sexual disorder now instead of a mental disorder. Not sure what's the difference exactly. I, as a layman, always used my common sense to see that being trans or gay isn't a normal state of mind (for purposes of biological continuation it doesn't seem like anything but a negative) and would think it fits both of those categories. But that's just my surface level understanding of those terms. Maybe that's what makes people oppose this harshly. I've also heard that suicide rates go up post transition. There's plenty of information that says suicide rates remain 20 or so times higher than for the general population. Also, doing dilation for the rest of your life is disgusting. Maybe not everyone is prepared for that? Because you can find people losing their shit just over that. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Except that's not what your source says. It's not saying that suicide rates go up 20 times between trans people who don't undergo SRS and those who do. It's saying trans people who have gotten SRS have a 20 times higher rate of suicide compared to the general population. Which is, by vast majority, not even trans in the first place. also your source kind of actually says you should be careful not to make that mistake? pretty explicitly? weird, huh For the purpose of evaluating the safety of sex reassignment in terms of morbidity and mortality, however, it is reasonable to compare sex reassigned persons with matched population controls. The caveat with this design is that transsexual persons before sex reassignment might differ from healthy controls (although this bias can be statistically corrected for by adjusting for baseline differences). It is therefore important to note that the current study is only informative with respect to transsexuals persons health after sex reassignment; no inferences can be drawn as to the effectiveness of sex reassignment as a treatment for transsexualism. In other words, the results should not be interpreted such as sex reassignment per se increases morbidity and mortality. Things might have been even worse without sex reassignment. As an analogy, similar studies have found increased somatic morbidity, suicide rate, and overall mortality for patients treated for bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.[39], [40]This is important information, but it does not follow that mood stabilizing treatment or antipsychotic treatment is the culprit. Other facets to consider are first that this study reflects the outcome of psychiatric and somatic treatment for transsexualism provided in Sweden during the 1970s and 1980s. Since then, treatment has evolved with improved sex reassignment surgery, refined hormonal treatment,[11], [41] and more attention to psychosocial care that might have improved the outcome. Second, transsexualism is a rare condition and Sweden is a small country (9.2 million inhabitants in 2008). Hence, despite being based on a comparatively large national cohort and long-term follow-up, the statistical power was limited. ... This study found substantially higher rates of overall mortality, death from cardiovascular disease and suicide, suicide attempts, and psychiatric hospitalisations in sex-reassigned transsexual individuals compared to a healthy control population. This highlights that post surgical transsexuals are a risk group that need long-term psychiatric and somatic follow-up. Even though surgery and hormonal therapy alleviates gender dysphoria, it is apparently not sufficient to remedy the high rates of morbidity and mortality found among transsexual persons. Improved care for the transsexual group after the sex reassignment should therefore be considered. Basically, they're saying that while SRS may alleviate gender dysphoria, it doesn't significantly reduce suicide rates - at least, according to 40 year old data on something that has seen massive improvements in that timeframe. They're not saying that SRS increases suicide rates. Maybe part of the reason suicide rates remain so high afterwards has to do with how society treats trans people? Maybe? Possibly?

Regardless of how right you both think you are, you're wording it so bad that you're basically asking for backlash. Learn to have some fucking respect and understanding for other people and be willing to discuss a topic, rather than walking into a thread, taking a shit and walking out because you feel high and mighty about your opinions. Thanks.

Your username is quite appropriate as I cannot imagine a cure for this level of stupidity.

Well I'm not saying that you're not allowed to "fuck up your face/body" sarcastically speaking, but from what I know shit like this is also very costly like even for simple stuff like nose surgery. My main point is there's no fucking benefit from this, the only ones who do benefit is the doctors and surgeons. And let's not forget the plethora of harassment you get, AGDQ or whatever had a trans run a game and I wasn't aware of it but leave it to the youtube comment section to make it clear for me why there so many dislikes. I'm still standing by the fact that this is a disgusting practice.

In a world with Jesse Singal and a bunch of shitheads spreading as much false and misleading information as possible you should defer to trans people re: statistics, transition, information. They kinda often get super into reading/collecting research papers. If you see a figure about 80% of trans people detransitioning or regretting transition that's probably boosted / promoted by or from Singal's articles.

Surgery is often (perhaps even usually) not sought. For the two typical drugs people take, one is just generic biological hormone, and the other was discovered in the 50s and is cheap as fuck. It's not really BIG PHARMA behind those. Pretty much every large medical association backs the efficacy and recommends transition as treatment for gender dysphoria. Due to the nature of this thing, studies are usually relatively small, but they consistently find benefits in mental health and reductions in suicide attempts. Bringing up nimrods isn't an argument. It's an excuse.

All I read from this is "I stand by the fact that I have no idea what I'm talking about"

The benefit from this is that you get to be who you want to be. Yeah, harassment is an issue but we shouldn't tell transpeople not to transition because other people are shitheads about it.

But other people being ignorant asshats is totally a valid excuse to also dislike someone and not mob behavior!!

As a trans woman, I'd never take the wonder drug. Getting rid of the dysphoria and letting me accept my birth gender would mean changing not just my sense of identity and body image, but my whole personality. Before I started HRT I absolutely hated the way I would talk to people and treat them if I wasn't constantly paying attention to it; on estrogen I actually feel comfortable about how I act (testosterone influences your behaviour a lot, but it can't change what you think of it). I'd rather remove the dysphoria by killing myself than by being someone else. Though if you take the magic bullet to just mean getting rid of that horrible sinking feeling, then sure, but I'd still probably choose to transition so I could finally feel at home (it helps a lot to live in a more accepting country though). Also, it's pretty important to note that genital surgery (SRS) really isn't that important to most (if not all) trans people. HRT is the critical thing as it slowly changes pretty much everything about your body that isn't strictly structural to match - fat distribution, skin, odor, sense of touch, etc (plus a lot of mental changes). After starting that most trans women get facial hair removed and possibly undergo facial plastic surgery (FFS) (esp. those cursed with a horrible jawline). SRS is usually done way down the line and many chose not to undergo it; some are okay with their genitals the way they are - and they're not what it's all about, though many pre-ops do hate theirs for fairly obvious reasons. Transgenderism somehow being all about your junk is an incredibly damaging myth.

You should listen to people who have undergone surgery and feel much more comfortable in their own bodies as a result of that. They can explain to you what the benefits are. They are very real and very valuable.

The meta-analysis being referred to in this common spicy choice quote was done very, very poorly.

what the fuck? this is honestly one of the most obnoxious posts ive ever read on this site in 8 years how on earth is "some people might harass you" a viable reason to suffer? why are the opinions of transphobic assholes more important than the suffering of the trans people who could feel significantly more comfortable about themselves? this whole post reads like "i don't want to see trans people because they are disgusting to me" that you've sugar coated in excuses "there's no fucking benefit" have you ever spoken to a trans person?? how can you think that you can just decide this?

Imagine your brain being taken out of your body before birth and placed in a body of the opposite gender. When you're born everyone thinks this other body is your natural body but you realise that something's terribly wrong and you feel like you're wearing someone else's skin. That's basically what people have described being transgender is to me, and the research shows it's not the brain that's the issue, it's the body. Structurally the brain is of your preferred gender, but the body isn't. Something goes wrong during pregnancy and the brain forms as one gender while the body forms as the opposite sex. Thus someone ends up having a female brain in a male body that's pumping male hormones, or vice versa. Imagine being a hetero guy constantly injected with estrogen, it's gonna feel wrong because your brain isn't getting the right hormones. If were a hetero male and one day woke up with breasts, vulva, a smaller frame, etc. you'd feel weird because your body doesn't match what your brain requires. People who are trans have to live in a body that isn't what it should be. The fix is to change the body's appearance and to replace the hormones with the appropriate gender's hormones. The brain is "you", the body is simply a vessel, changing your brain to be the opposite gender's structure is impossible and ethically problematic but changing the body is possible and least problematic. Surgery is gross regardless of the procedure or area of operation, so "mutilating your genitals" is an infantile and sophomoric way of looking at it. SRS doesn't necessarily involve changing sex organs anyways since it's the hormones and other parts of the body that are more noticeable in day to day living. Tl;dr Do some research and talk to actual trans people before forming an opinion on a legitimate medical condition. The WHO classifying transgenderism as a sexual rather than mental disorder is more in line with what transgenderism is - the brain isn't the issue, it's the body being a disorder.