Elon Musk pledges to fix any home in Flint, Michigan that has contaminated water - Sensationalist Headlines

And yet they do not want to. They've chosen not to. That's more a statement of the will of the workforce than I think you know how to comprehend. You don't have a true understanding of them or their conditions, only half stories, and you're coming to a different conclusion than the people in the shit. And because they're not responding how you think they should, it's blowing a fuse.

so we've really gotten to the point of pretending shitty corporations don't fight tooth and nail to try to avoid unions huh I'm legitimately flabbergasted that you hold that point of view knowing full-well Walmart workers haven't been able to unionize thanks to Walmart's tactics despite the fact that Walmart has notoriously dogshit work conditions. Also, And because they're not responding how you think they should, it's blowing a fuse. Lol. Okay. Keep living in your naive little world. I won't try to argue with a brick wall.

The UAW has history with the same plant in the past, before Tesla: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125229157 "It was considered the worst workforce in the automobile industry in the United States," said Bruce Lee, who ran the western region for the United Auto Workers and oversaw the Fremont plant. "And it was a reputation that was well earned. Everything was a fight. They had strikes all the time. It was just chaos constantly." Madrid said he drank when he was mounting tires. "I'd bring a thermos of screwdrivers with me." And it wasn't just drinking and drugs, Madrid said. People would have sex at the plant, too. If you're wondering how people kept their jobs, here's why: Under the union contract workers practically had to commit fraud to get fired. Some workers hated management so much, they sabotaged the vehicles. Of course, quality and reliability weren't the reasons GM failed. Over the years, GM negotiated such generous contracts with the UAW that they crippled the company.

Elon has some hardcore fans, criticizing Elon on valid issues are taken as personal attacks. You basically have to prefix posts with how much you adore Elon before you can actually criticize him, or else you're just a "hater". The fact that something as trivial as calling him a "billionaire" arouses such an reaction in this thread is fairly telling.

Fair enough for that union in particular, but you still have not addressed my question: why has Elon done so little to improve work conditions in his own workplaces if his good intents are apparently completely genuine?

The big problem with unionizing Walmart is skill-less labor. It is a 100% unskilled job that anyone can do. If even 1/3 of it's work force unionized, Tesla would be crippled because it is not skill-less labor. If they're fired, that's not something that can be replaced overnight. If Walmart employees unionized, they could be fired overnight and replaced the next morning without a dip, especially in the current labor market where there are far, far more people looking for work than there are job openings. And everyone realized it. It's an unwinnable situation for unions. Unless they could get an extreme portion of Walmart's workforce unionized, enough that it literally paralyzed the company because there is just no one working, you literally have no leverage. The only way to get Walmart to treat it's employees better is through legislation because the workforce cannot do it themselves.

Once again, an extremely naive point of view. For one, Tesla and SpaceX have high turn over rates. People are coming in and out all the damn time. There was also that time they fired hundreds of people all at the same time. They don't have any qualms about replacing employees. Second, employees are rumored to have been fired for expressing a desire for unionization before. Employees have complained about being intimidated on the topic of unionization. Please tell me how well trying to get 1/3 of the workforce (11,000 people) to cooperate and organize will go when they're afraid that they'll lose their job for even talking about it. Yes, it'd probably be a huge problem for them if 11,000 workers suddenly started a strike. That's exactly why they squash and intimidate any attempts at unionization before it gains enough momentum to actually get to that point, which they can do, and rather easily at that. Good luck getting 11,000 people together in secret.

Blows my mind how people get pissed that corporations like Walmart get yelled at for not allowing their workers to unionize, but if its musky busky its A-okay. There's a reason why unions are the bane of any CEO, becaus said they promote better benefits and higher pay for their workers. The middle class has started dying off right when unions started disbanding. Doesnt take a genius to put two and two together.

No, my point is that UAW is completely untrustworthy and the are notorious for lying. So using a report laden with claims from UAW is like trusting Steve Bannon to tell the truth.

They are working to improve conditions but it's not a change you can make overnight. Tesla says it has a plan to improve conditions for its workers Here's a good article that looks at claims from both sides: New Report Slams Tesla's Working Conditions | Inc.com I feel like the claims are mostly overblown to stir outside pressure to unionize, though I do take the allegations seriously and hope Tesla improves conditions. But I can't help but feel like the UAW is trying smear tactics to get into Tesla. California is investigating the conditions claims so we'll get to the bottom of this in an unbiased way hopefully. https://gizmodo.com/california-is-investigating-tesla-following-a-damning-r-1825368102

Really? Cuz most of those ""claims"" are from the National Labor Relations Board (and very clearly labeled as such), which is a federal agency whose sole purpose is to protect private employees regardless of whether or not they're in a union. You're so willfully ignorant that it's just pathetic at this point.

Prove me wrong that the UAW specifically is not a blood sucking organization.

It's not naive, I'm just not convinced you understand this matter as well as you're trying to show. For starters, you're talking a planned and managed lay off and single or double digits employees leaving a company of tens of thousands. That is a blip. Not a major piece of the workforce ceasing function overnight without time to mitigate the damage. Second: Yes, rumored to be fired just for talking about unionizing, which a lot of these rumors come from UAW or the employee in question. Neither of which is a great source. How do they get a significant portion of the workforce to unionize and strike? Same way every other union did it. It's not like Tesla is some pioneer in crushing workers under the boot of the bourgeois. Unions have been around for quite a while now.

UAW isn't their only option. Forming their own union is a viable option with enough support. Maybe they'd be able to weigh their options better if they didn't have to live in fear of losing their job just for discussing it.

And you should try to form an argument that holds up to scrutiny and doesn't fall apart after pointing out it's steeped in bullshit and low trustworthiness.

when did these claims if union busting and labor issues start?

You're right forming their own union is an option, but they aren't taking that and the point Of is making isn't about them joining UAW, but that UAW is a corrupt and extortionist organization making many of the claims.

I can't believe I have to explain this to you. You cannot organize 11,000 people overnight in those conditions. It is impossible. Period. This takes a significant amount of time. Enough time, in fact, that they can (allegedly) plan to fire the people pushing for unionization. They don't need to fire 11,000 people at once if they can fire the dozen people who are pushing for unionization before it gains any traction. Furthermore, even the fact that it is rumored that employees will be fired or otherwise face consequences for discussing unionization is enough to intimidate employees into not discussing it at all.

See Walmart for a working example of why this claim is complete bullshit.

Tesla slapped with unfair labor practices complaint by NLRB The workers’ complaints were filed with the NLRB in April but date back to a series of events ranging from November to March. According to NLRB documents, workers distributing union literature were told by security to leave the premises, employees were surveilled and “interrogated,” and managers attempted to prohibit workers from discussing union activities. Workers also complained of being forced to sign an “overly broad” confidentiality agreement “that coerces and intimidates employees from freely exercising their rights.” NLRB (National Labor Relations Board) in June filed an amendment to an unfair-labor-practices complaint against Tesla, claiming that in June 2017, Musk met with workers at Tesla’s Fremont, Calif., auto factory and solicited complaints about workplace safety, and promised to address their concerns if they stopped their attempt to unionize." The NLRB said Musk “impliedly promised to remedy their safety complaints if they refrained from their union organizational activity,” no union busting at all here folks, all fake news yesiree

No shit you don't organize them over night. You organize them over weeks or months. The same fucking thing every other union had to do. Because as I said and you didn't read because it's inconvenient to you, this is not new. Workers have unionized before, doing it for 100 years now. And they didn't do it with a snap of their fingers. They did it when factory owners called in the Pinkertons and had them beaten and shot and it wasn't a crime. Law enforcement would even help out regularly. But I guess you didn't think about that. About that it's far fucking easier and safer to organize as a union now than it was at in the early 1900s.

The reason people support Musk is because the things he is working on are critically important to a good future for everyone. The push to make electric cars didn't exist before Tesla. (See: EV1) Tesla is arguably the only reason we are able to even think about banning ICE vehicles in 20-whatever. This companies success is critically important to the future and until every other major automaker has mature EV lineups, we have a responsibility to ensure Tesla exists to provide that competitive pressure. This is a fight against time for the security of our species future and we can't afford to lose Tesla right now. If that means 33% more people getting hurt at a factory than so be it. It means less people dying each day from toxic gas pumped into the air in the future. That is how I feel.

i don't disbelieve the claims of intimidation being used to dissuade workers from unionizing, i find it suspicious that so much concerted effort is going into ruining tesla, the company that is responsible for the biggest shakeup the automotive and fossil fuel industries have seen in some time.

And suspicious that many of the claims the NLRH used in their report coming from a notoriously dirty organization like UAW.

aw man the fucking libertarians are probably creaming themselves at the precedence this creates why spend any money on government funding for infrastructure and the like when the big companies will do it all for their benefit?

The response to which is, "Because you libertarian fucknoses ruined government projects just to make this problem so you could sell your own solution."

You try to discredit me for not knowing what it's like on the factory floor then legitimately try to say it's so easy to unionize these days just because employers aren't openly beating the shit out of their employees anymore? This argument has just gotten to laughable levels of hyperbole. I shouldn't even humor this kind of idiotic argument with a response, but I'll point out just because it's possibly easier to unionize, that doesn't mean it's easy. Losing your job can be pretty fucking dire especially in this day and age; most people wouldn't risk being open about unionization if it meant not being able to pay rent or feed their kids.

wow here's a novel concept how about actually responding to many of the specific and cited arguments raised against you in this thread, instead of acting like every other worthless dogma poster on this website that purposefully avoids opposing evidence?

No shit it's not easy, but try to read what I'm saying because you're bordering on just shitposting since you're willfully ignoring what you're being told. You're just throwing out anything that is said and twisting it around to misrepresent it and I will not let you pull that disingenuous shit. That will not be how this goes. You were saying they can't organize, I told you they can and then used historical context to show how and dispell the bullshit of your claims, (which are the actual hyperbole here, but maybe you don't understand what that is).

They should be held to high standards and I want them to improve the conditions like I've already said. I'm not even against them unionizing. I just think it's secondary to the importance of what Tesla is. And Tesla was managed by other people at one point. Elon has to take the reins because they ran it into the ground. He was the only person in the position to make it what it is today. He won't be there forever and he didn't plan to be. But we need him around Dr at least another 5 years to ensure EVs are here to stay.