• South Africa begins seizing white-owned farms
    130 replies, posted
Some already have. If you watch the video posted on page 2, you'll see many homeowners hire PMCs and security companies as guards for their homes. I don't think it's a stretch to say farmers with a bit more wealth could and have hired bigger retinues of private security.
I dunno, you seem so eager to jump down everyone's throat that I'm actually surprised you're angry it's happening to you. Nobody can be this obtuse deliberately. Stop weaseling and figure out your shit, child. You could start by trying to explain your original point - if you weren't trying to indicate racism, why did you even pull the race card?
Would you agree that people were in the wrong to call out Tudd when he did his drive-by shitposting? Here's a solution. Put some fucking thought into your posts.
This entire post is whitewashing colonialist bullshit. I'm not versed enough on the history of South Africa to hold any meaningful conversation on it, so apologies in advance if that's what you're looking for, but hopefully the links will be enough of a starting point for any specific points. You'll get far more out of google than you could get from me, honestly. The southern end of Africa was essentially empty when the Boers arrived and established their first colony. This is one of those myths used to justify taking land, specifically being a colonial-era invention. Boers traded quite often with these peoples, resources and materials for land and so on. Basically, Boers to a good extent bought and traded for the lands they inhabited. That's not stealing, is it? "bought and traded", and a whole load of expropriation. The warlike Bantu tribes and other related groups migrated south and just took over with force of arms. The Bantu Expansion wasn't a cohesive group of marching hordes about the continent, it's more a general cultural and linguistic migration accompanied by a shifting of people, with not much intermingling between Bantu-speaking and Khoisan cultures. They got pushed, but they didn't get warred out. By your logic, kick like 95%+ or god know how many black people out of the entire southern third of Africa and give it all back to the some few hundred thousands or, at best, millions remaining. Because they were the ones who it was all arguably stolen from. By other black people. As well as the above, you have to remember the Bantu Expansion happened thousands of years ago. That's a long time; Bantu-speaking peoples had already settled in South Africa by 300 A.D. It's weird to lump the Khoikhoi and San peoples together as Khoisan and imply that they together had land stolen by Bantu-speaking peoples, because the Khoikhoi themselves migrated to South Africa merely hundreds of years before. Two millennia seem good enough to be considered a native, no? And remember, Khoisan peoples still had a load of land that was theirs and had a lack of Bantu-speaking peoples. That's the bit that Dutch settlers first fucked about with and stole; then they started encroaching on what Bantu-speaking natives had been calling home for nearly a couple millennia. Oh yeah, let's not forget that for the last few hundred years we're still talking about good ol' terrible and destructive colonialism, so don't try to say that it's actually black people that are to blame. It was your normal colonialism, it was stolen as much as everywhere else.
Doesn't justify the idea of punishing the current residents by taking the land stolen by their ancestors and redistributing it to people who've no right to own that right other than heritage. Same reason why normal, sane people don't hold white people accountable for slavery, simply because everyone alive today played no part in that institution.
All of the land we live on belonged to someone else at some point really
I think all of us (outside of pinko commies) can all get behind the idea that governments taking land away from any particular racial group for any reason is generally a bad thing. I'm unfortunately not very surprised by the lack condemnation from Western nations as this has been an issue for a while with no real statements or action by government's of nations other than South Africa.
You won't get any government responses. Nobody cares about what's happening to the Yemeni people or Royhinga, which is far worse than what's happening here, I expect nothing here either. Unless there is some profit to be made or it goes too far, nothing will happen. It's disgusting, but the truth.
Aye, just felt it was necessary to counter the implication that the Dutch were saints and the pointing fingers at black people.
I'm not sure this is a good source. I've been looking at its claims then checking wiki's early history of the cape colony and I get the hint of a political bias. I'm not actually sure if that article has much to do with early history, most of it seems to be talking about the 19th century and Dutch Boer movements in the context of struggles with the British, which were far beyond the original scope of the Cape colony and well into land inhabited by Xhosa and Bantu populations. It seems like a later time period where economic and social forces brought to a height antagonisms with locals and their traditional way of life in contrast to the burgeoning economic and political system of the colony. Displacement of Khoi seems to be something that was slipped into owing to forces within the settlement and its government as well as external forces from Europe, like politics and immigration. According to wiki, the first settlement was made in 1652 with no reference to dispossession, then expanded for the first time with a land purchase in 1671. Somewhere in the meantime, though, the contradiction with the traditional way of life (native conception of land as communally owned and for grazing, very vague idea of borders) and pushing them out seems to begin with free burghers being given the right to farm around the original settlement to resolve economic difficulties. This leads to some of them moving further inland because of market forces, poor delineation of borders and lack of respect for them when established, and some failures to establish bartering relationships. This seems to have placed pressure on the nomadic, pastoralist Khoi society, where war and disease led to its collapse and integration into the colonial system as laborers and indentured servants. The colony continued to expand with immigration, more burgher excursion because of the colony's extreme protectionism and other economic controls, and so on. It seems like the typical case of the historically uneven development of capitalism causing a clash of civilizations. I'm not sure how to find justice in this situation. Compensated land reform and political divorce might be for the best. Democracy doesn't work in an ex-colonial society with great ethnic/racial divisions worsened by class inequality, that's how you get radicalism on the left and right. Looking at something like Greece and Turkey and how diversity is managed in Switzerland, population exchange and self-determination or good fences for good neighbors may be in the works.
because universal moral principals change based on where you are on the world and based on the local demographic percentages right?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1032454567152246785 https://twitter.com/GovernmentZA/status/1032507810460909568
Tucker said something I pretty much agree with? That doesn't happen very often.
I have been informed of certain implications of this... And from this thread I see that it's already unraveling as we speak Also, unlike Rhodesia, SA has 8 million non-africans. This won't end very well, will it
A swift coup detat is probably best case scenario at this point, with the big armed presence mounting, civil war is more likely though. Either way it's gonna be a good few years to buy stocks in PSC's that operate heavily in Africa
Oof I don't think there will be any money to invest in anything after what's going down
This is all a British ploy, preformed in an effort to reclaim the cape The Crown Jewel of the Empire is next.
christ this is delusional
My feelings on the issue are that A) there isn't that much of a difference between the skills of black farmers and white farmers although the latter have an edge because of course they've been farming the land for a while and B) I think the only way forward if the government wants to redistribute the land is to give they white farmers a good deal on their land but I dunno if the farmers are trying to grift every coin they can out of the government, based on the example in the op story: While the government says it intends to pay, owners Akkerland Boerdery wanted 200 million rand ($20.8 million) for the land — they're being offered just 20 million rand ($2.08 million). Which I think he is well within his rights to do but normally there would be some sort of mediator. I wasn't trying to accuse anyone in this thread of racism, for real. I frequently have trouble communicating my ideas and I apologize for that. Why should they? White or black, they're south african. Only a huge idiot would try to interfere with south african sovereignty. hence why trump is apparently doing so. I'm very tired of the fact that people keep comparing me to Tudd and peoples repeated insistence that I'm just shitposting. I can't disprove this! If I admit to it, everyone will go "aha! you were the left wing tudd all along!" and if I deny it people will surely think "only a true shitposter would lie about it when they are clearly shitposting" I feel like I can't win. I think I'll just completely ignore any time people compare me to Tudd in the future because people just want to hit me over the head rather than engage with me. Conterversial opinion maybe but I don't think the SA government is gonna commit white genocide.
Lambeth you're in the alt right propaganda level of discussion, and are defending a really weak position. You could be arguing much more effectively if you rejected the premise. There's no genocide, there isn't going to be one, this is not doomsday. White farmers have sent alt right delegations to the united states to shape the narrative and gotten their message out to tucker carlson and others, this whole thread is taking the issue completely 1 sided thanks to a years long campaign to push this message by american and european and SA alt right. South Africa's government is in a situation where whites make up 8.9% of the population and own 72% of farms due to racist policies and violence that were still in place within the last 50 years. They have to fight fake history like "white people were there first", they have to fight fake history where "this was all 100 years ago", they have to fight an alt right faction that's pretending to be a human rights group and is an expert at getting their message out and is being boosted by neo nazi grifters better at social media than the government and that can just say whatever they want and via the conduit of tucker carlson saying it have the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES REPEAT NEO NAZI PROPAGANDA. And it is in this situation the SA government find themselves when they want land reform. Be skeptical of literally everything you'll see or hear for the next week as the news picks this up with their fumbling liberal naiveté and taking neo nazi talking points in good faith.
This is what you do. You make a controversial post, refuse to admit the fact that you made such a post, claim you're going to just stop arguing, only to come back and keep shit going. Just ignore us! You made the right decision and left, claiming there was no way to win, yet you still attempt to defend yourself? What's the point???!?!??!?!?!?? If you can't win, just leave!
To be honest I think suggesting that Tucker Carlson is right is more controversial post than anything I've said in this thread.
This whole attempt to redefine private property is just ancom bullshit.
"Where did the food go?" "Why are we starving?" "Who are these Chinese dudes?"
This will probably just give the Chinese more control over the area as western investors leave.
im sorry fucking what?
The SA government is seeking to get land back. There is a lot of land that was taken during apartheid (Apartheid ended in 1994). The people who stole it and the people from whom it was stolen are still around today. Giving back this land is good. Paying people for land stolen recently like this is bullshit. The SA alt-right is better at getting its message out than the SA government, they've been able to get it onto tucker carlson and youtube nazis keep making videos about the country and going there, spreading their message. There's a fake history of SA where white people were there first and there are other lies going on about the country, this is the result of the SA alt right preparing and controlling the narrative for a long time. There are a lot of lies we'll have to sort through in the coming weeks as the president of the united states has turned yet another racist conspiracy theory into his own policy.
He's pretty unhinged
Since when is reporting on the horrors of the Plaasmoorde, which happen with shocking frequency, considered racist to report on? Is it considered racist to get to hear of the horrors of entire families getting slowly tortured to death over a period of twelve hours, in a display of cruelty on the levels of genocides on the continent? Because clearly, the mainstream media in the press barely reports on this. So how do you even make the baseless claim about ''the South African alt-right'' getting their point of view out more than the mainstream media taking every word of Ramaphosa at face value, while flatout ignoring Ramaphosa and Malema both being on record that they would like to see the Boers at the receiving end of a genocide? Honestly, every fucking word out of the shitpile that is your mouth is pure kletspraat, but that's the usual for people like you.
Whenever I hear someone complain about the mainstream media not reporting on an issue it's usually pretty easy to find the mainstream media reporting on the issue. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/27/murders-of-farmers-in-south-africa-at-20-year-low-research-shows Not compared to other people in this thread.
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