Finnish gender clinics will no longer treat non-binary patients - Sensationalist Headlines

No fucking shit. ????????????????? Or, since you're the one making the claims here, why not you go ahead and cite those studies?

so why don't you the data itself and the methods are where you'll really get destroyed by bias its a cohort dude stop drawing conclusions from it that cant be drawn from it. it is 20 times higher than the general population, but it doesn't say it has risen after the surgery compared to before. Again they bring up bipolar disorder and schizophrenia and how it's silly to argue based on the data collected via similar methods that those interventions cause harm, like you have.

It's hard to describe how baffled I feel when people who are transphobic/homophobic/assholes also want to actively participate in degrading the quality of life of people they don't understand. Why do so many people fail to grasp basic human empathy? Why does a person that doesn't think or function like you need to be 'fixed' in a way that seems fit to you?

I am glad they are at least willing to discuss other options than SRS, considering how damaging it is and the last thing you want to do with someone mentally unstable is to try and treat them with unnecessary surgeries these people need proper help and care. On an unrelated note, something I have thought about and haven't looked into so excuse my naivety but for people who have gone through the right programs and channels and have a genuine need to live as the opposite sex lets say you got 2 of these people one female and one male, would it be possible to do a "swap" of their genitals? I realize this would be hugely complicated not to mention the complications of receiving a transplant but wouldn't the end result be more desirable for both parties? a more natural result would help a lot because from what ive heard many of the suicides are not only caused by the wrong choice but because the end result isn't what they wanted/expected from SRS.

give me your lunch money loser

Not caring would be doing mothing, not attempting to stop trwne folks from getting what they want.

so all of this is just a happy accident, nothing to do with targeting these people? wow thanks for clearing it up dude!

F64.9 is actually "undisclosed gender identity disorder", it's given to all people who are in the diagnostic process before being given the final diagnosis which is either F64.0 Transgender or F64.8 "Other gender identity disorder" i.e non-binary

The hilarious thing about "open a biology textbook!!" transphobes is that they're actually enormously disrespecting the science that they claim to care so much about.

Elaborate, please.

a) Biological sex is very complicated and is inherently non-binary to a degree. I'm not an expert so I welcome anybody with more knowledge to elaborate but XX and XY are not the only chromosome arrangements that exist, and several other markers of biological sex are remarkably inconsistent. So saying sex is binary to begin with is a faulty foundation to argue upon. b) Psychologists and other experts have considered non-binary genders to be a valid form of gender expresssion for years and years now.

Lemme just stop you here. That study has been misquoted to hell and back and doesn't mean what you think it means. The conclusion of the study says that "suicide rates amongst post-transition transgender individuals are still higher then those of cisgendered individuals". This means exactly jack shit since the suicide rates are quite a bit lower then pre-transition transgender individuals. Why don't you take a second to try and read and comprehend the study before you post it.

I could easily see confused people in some spheres conflate being congratulated for coming out with being handed medals. It's could be a sense of community. But I also don't think it's as widespread as critics would like to believe.

I think there's some benefit to taking the whole "Transitioning" process slowly and cautiously as a society. We don't have a clue what the lasting effects are going to be 15-20 years down the road. We should offer all the support, compassion, and help possible in the mean time, but I do think taking an effort to slow things down a bit in our general cultural paradigm wouldn't hurt. IIRC there's been a huge, huge jump in the amount of people who self identify as transgender that completely blows our previous understanding of the scale of the problem out of the water. There's something to at the very least, think about.

We saw a huge jump in self identified homosexuals after homosexuality became commonly accepted. It's probable that the same thing is happening with transgender people. Also why slow down? HRT is not a new process. IIRC we've been commonly doing it since the 70s. There's no lasting effects to be afraid of unless you're saying post-transition transgender people pose an existential threat to the fabric of society

No, I don't think there's any threat and I don't think I said there was either. I would not really be sure how to support using HRT at young ages as some have started doing. I'm not against anything else, and to be honest, I would be surprised gender dysmphoria would be as common as the statistical jumps show. I don't think it's a threat, and I think reading "caution" as "you view this as a existential threat" is kind of silly. I didn't imply really anything of what you're saying to be fair.

"the problem" lmao here's a concept: As LGBT acceptance in general grows, people are more comfortable, ergo more people are coming out? Maybe they're not just pretending and they're just coming out because acceptance and public support rises year over year. As said above, it's silly not to consider the fact that acceptance has a correlation with the amount of people coming out.

You're right, "problem" was the wrong word and I should have used a different one. They're not a problem. In any event I don't mean anything critical towards them. I have multiple trans friends, and fully support them. And you're right there probably is a correlation there, but you don't need to imply any sort of ill will on my part, I don't have any. I suppose I shouldn't have said anything, that's my fault. I don't mean to be critical of anything or call things problems, I again should have used a different word but was at a loss. The problem is the depression or the associated things that come with the trans experience, and as society becomes more accepting hopefully more and more of that goes away and becomes easier, and less of a problem.

No they haven't. Scaremongers have been pulling the "giving kids hormone therapy!!!!" card for years but it's just not true. The most we do is give them hormone blockers.

I didn't know that. Alright.

don't fall for the FUD

As a transwoman I see this as entirely fair so long as they offer mental health treatment options for those who identify as non-binary. How can you treat someone who identifies as nothing or a third gender or whatever? Treating someone who is MtF or FtM follows a proven system of diagnoses and for now treatment involving hormone therapy and sexual reassignment surgery. I mean in the future they might just give you a shot and bam you're suddenly not trans anymore or something but who knows? But someone who identifies as an other? Just going to make them a tentacle penis? There's bad dragon for that.

How unnecessarily disrespectful. The obvious answer is to offer an HRT regimen that most closely aligns with the goal the person has for their body. For example, if they're biologically female and want to be androgynous, give them a low dose of T. Reverse for the reverse.

There is nothing to stop non-binary people seeking private treatment if they wish to feminise, adrogenise or masculinise their body. Gender clinics world wide already suffer from massive shortages on resources which is why they generally give people cookie cutter treatment and I feel that the quicker you can treat people and get them through the transitioning process the quicker you capitalize on making those people better functioning members of society. I feel that being non-binary is something that takes up much more time to diagnose and treat especially since hormones not only affect your appearance but also your mental state. Gender dysphoria is an initial diagnosis because a person who is taking HRT may change their mind on what gender they identify as feel while under the influence of them and therapy is a companion to that helping them find the gender they are actually comfortable in. It is only recently that sex and gender have been differentiated into two separate things and it is difficult to assess the mental health and well being of someone who is non-binary as they don't display particular traits or other easily identifiable markers, every non-binary person is unique.

Wow, way to eliminate all your customers lmao

You mean the often vastly understaffed and underfunded clinics that are generally overwhelmed with the minority number of patients wishing to see them? That's not to mention that public services doesn't mean better services. Here in the UK many clinics have a 1-2 year waiting period for a first appointment. And in the lead up to my appointment I knew exactly what I was going to say so that I didn't hold up the system for everyone behind me, because the longer I ummed and erred about my gender the more time they would have to focus on me and the longer I would have to remain under their care. Gatekeeping exists here in the UK, especially in the clinics with high turnover rate, I don't consider it bullshit I consider it a way of limited expending resources. IF someone just simply self-identifies and then changes their mind half way through treatment (some of which is potentially irreversible) then you're just wasted time and money on someone who with additional therapy could have avoided it, that is why things take so long here (I can't speak for other systems.) I'm not saying the fact they don't go by man/woman means they don't deserve treatment, I'm saying that they need more treatment than run of the mill transgender patients.

I mean, she equated being nonbinary with buying a dragon dildo and thought that they "identify as nothing or whatever," so I don't think she has too much knowledge or respect for nb people

The UK system sucks in many aspects but I do not believe that gatekeeping is a part of it that sucks, the inflexibility of treatment plans (i.e. what medications you wish to take) is probably the most pressing disappointment with the current system in the UK. Also I feel I should have highlighted that while they need the same kinds of treatment they take more time, they need a different regime of treatment to most transgender people. Does the person feel they are non-binary because of mental illness, gender dysphoria, societal pressures? What support can they realistically be given to help them feel closer to their gender? It requires a flexible and personal treatment plan that for the most part cannot be easily delivered. Since you asked non-binary is very much an umbrella term that contains anyone that doesn't identify as a cismale or cisfemale. Lately it's also become prevalent online becoming somewhat of a fad for inclusion. I've met a person who felt he was a otter trapped in a human body who identified as such, I met someone who wanted no genitalia at all and to be referred by zer/ze, I've met transsexuals who have identified as non-binary and liked they/them, and someone who identified as owlkin. How do you prosecute someone who is non-binary if they commit a crime and where would you put them? How do you handle medical care with them? How do you handle adoptions, marriages and such? How do you know if they're actually non-binary?

you ask

I meant from the clinical standpoint not from a personal one. What's to stop anyone from saying "I'm non-binary" and how do you even account for that as a modern society?