Drama over female-only League of Legends PAX seminars - Sensationalist Headlines

Why not? This would encourage more interest and competitiveness in the female esports scene.

Nobody seems to be interested in female only esports by the looks of it (Judging how very little about it is advertised), maybe because it's boring to watch boring plays? If women got better and competed against top tier teams in main league - now that would be super fun to watch and something new.

Ah yes Riot. A game studio that is biased against women and demands you name your leveling trinket during wow dungeons by heart to be accepted into a job or you'd get fucked.

Why do you keep taking about prize pools????? It wasn't mentioned by anyone in this thread other than you, and it's not mentioned in the article This is a thread about riot hosting a "getting into games development" seminar, not "women in esports" which (unprompted) you bought up and clearly have massive issues with. Please stop projecting your shit opinions all over the place

Because it's been all over news previously, it's always females complaining about being discriminated against even though there is usually a good reason for it. First comment said: "Nothing says equality like demanding special treatment/treating others unfairly." So I added another example from esports. but yeah fine, I will stop "projecting shit opinions" (just because you don't agree with it) before I get shadow banned or some shit you might pull.

Because when those participants are railroaded into dead-end gender segregated leagues with a low skill ceiling and method of progression to a relevant level versus male participants you're actually hurting them. Lets say you're the best female player, you drop 30+ every game against the other top female teams. If you want to progress your skills further you're going to need to start playing with better players, which means moving from your current top female pro salary to an unsalaried tier 3/4 "male" mix team, because no salaried team would take the risk on picking up a player whose skill level can't be gauged beyond "dumpsters female teams". Hope that you're able perform well enough to get noticed and get onto a "male" team with a salary, which will be much lower than what you started out at on the best female team.

Christ. Need I remind you how you basically said that females should fuck off back to whoring themselves out on instagram instead of doing e-sports? And now you're saying that discrimination of females is usually justified. I think you might have some underlying issues with women in general.

You can carry on posting all you want, im not going to ban you (I wouldn't under the old rules either). I'm asking you to stop for your own sake You've been on an anti non-male gamer tirade the whole thread, and it's embarrassing. Even more so because it's not even what the thread is about

You know who is interested in female only esports? Females, because they hear shit like this coming from the mouths of guys in the esports scene all the goddamn time actually what he meant is that you started a discussion that had barely anything to do with the original post

If you're a physicist then you should have a decent understanding of maths and logic, and it shouldn't be too hard for you to see the contradiction in your reasoning. Let's use more physics related terms to break things down: When you create a model of physics, you makes hypotheses. The model has to be internally consistent. You then test the model's accuracy by confronting it to reality through experiments. If results differ from the model, you change your hypotheses so that they don't. A model is robust once its hypotheses logically result in predictions that accurately depict reality. You're trying to create a model of gender dynamics in human society. Your hypothesis is that the people belonging to a certain gender to be more fit to roles that were historically their gender's. For the resulting model to be robust, it must apply to as many aspects of reality as possible. So either your model is robust and it does apply to other aspects of reality (ie women are naturally worse at engineering) or it isn't and thus your hypothesis is false, or poorly representative of reality. And yes, believing that men and women aren't equally capable is widely considered by the feminist community to be misogynistic. I'm surprised you're not aware of that. They must do feminism differently in Lithuania.

It's the standard in nearly all branches of sport. Are you insinuating that all of sports is misogynistic? I don't understand where you're going with this.

I find this funny because this whole thread you have been saying "be good at a video game or get out". Imagine complaining about others wanting their own space, yet when being asked, not told, to stop you act like this

Okay let's get one thing straight (Even though I mentioned it on first page). There are legit female players out there who deserve respect and chances to advance to the top. The ones I was referring to were those with mindset of: "Oh there is ez cash in esports, gotta join that" so they enter esports leage thinking they will get some special treatment and then later complain and get offended when it turns out they don't get any special treatment. Those ones I meant - should go back to their insta-hoeing. Literally first thing I posted in this thread: "Women who think they are entitled to some special exemptions or treatment in gaming - should not be in gaming and should fuck off and go back to insta-hoeing or whatever."

Differences in physical capabilities are generally considered an exception, as they're well documented. To my knowledge, there is no well-recognized scientific that point towards significant mental differences that could affect performances in non-physical competitive scenes (such as chess). Without data, the safest bet is to assume the simpler hypothesis: There is no significant differences in non-physical competitive capabilities between men and women.

If a high prizepool for a couple of events begins to generate more competitive players and more interest, surely that's the point? It's not about giving money away to segregated mediocre players "because equality" - it's about shouting to the community that you don't have to be afraid to get excited and think of yourself as an entry level competitive player. It's a message that now is the time to give it a go and get interested in something that was previously a mental wellbeing death sentence for you. Yeah it sucks that you don't get to compete in a segregated league against players you'd consider easy, but ultimately this prizepool comes directly from the company as a method of advertising, rather than as a prizepool generated by interested participants and spectators. If Riot want's to spend a million on advertising to a specific subset of players, you can't really stop them.

Why even bring it up other than trying to throw some sick zingers towards a huge group based on a few unnamed individuals? At this point it's pretty hard to see your posts as anything but genuinely hateful.

I don't think people so much have a problem with what you're saying as how you're saying it. If you could avoid saying women are insta-hoes and 'fucking trash', I'd mostly be in agreement with your points thus far.

You literally bitched about people not agreeing with you like you expected them to, with you in the very first post you made It's a shame there surrounds such hostility around stuff like this tbh There is low representation of females in gaming and female oriented leagues could help it could obviously be argued that sure, they need to learn to fight top tier players, but baby steps. That can happen on the side as well, there's tons of people out there. They can aim for male leagues on top of it.

Is it misogynistic to make more than one hypothesis then? Being offended (or offended on behalf of others) because of hypothesises, even from someone who quite clearly doesn't mean to offend anyone, isn't very helpful. You seem to be trying to twist his words to make him appear misogynistic, and that's just a shitty practice. Anyways, about hypothesises: We clearly see a difference in male and female gamers in terms of e-sports performance and participation. From this you can make a number of hypothesises: Female gamers aren't as interested, and their low participation keeps them from reaching the higher spots Female gamers are culturally shunned from the scene, which keeps them from participating and competing at higher levels Female gamers are physiologically unable to reach the peak performance of the best male gamers You'd then go on and gather data, and eventually you reach a some sort theory (or conclusion) It's not bad to hypothesise, because you're not stating things as fact. You're exploring options.

No, what I claim is that the male gender has had a history of doing this thing, and so they have the advantage over the less experienced gender - let's completely ignore what I said about chemical and body advantages. We can both agree social stigma makes it difficult, and that is definitely the case. Are you happy now? I wholeheartedly disagree. I would be a mysoginist if I told women that they shouldn't aspire to be pro gamers or acknowledged physicists (which there aren't a whole lot of in my field due to the same social factors that make being a pro female gamer problematic). You completely misunderstand the virtue of feminism and what it's actually about if you think acknowledging that different genders have done different things in the past is misogynistic.

Unfortunately that's what female cs has defacto become due to no avenues to attempt to improve to the level of top teams. If you're a female pro whose reached the skill ceiling of the female scene your only option for progression is to join a "male" team of your skill level to be able to improve, however in doing so you're basically throwing away your income stream because the teams you can join aren't good enough to get salaried. There isn't really a neat solution to this problem, paying similarly skilled male teams the same salary as top female teams make is unfeasible because nobody watches their matches. Cutting female salaries would cause a huge media shitstorm over sexism, and would end any org that did so.

This is the real answer. Female Esports are failing due to structural issues, it's not as simple as "lmao they suck"

I apologise, but what is the obvious reason? I guess I just mean it's not obvious to me, although I will probably feel stupid when you provide explanation.

I assume they're a lady?

I'm doing none of that. Please refrain from deliberately twisting my words. I'm not offended, nor am I accusing gvazdas of being misogynistic. I'm merely pointing out that his apparent beliefs are generally considered by feminists to be misogynistic. And what I'm saying is that we can most probably rule out the last one already. The hypothesis that women are physiologically worse at something as specific as video games while being equally skilled in other fields like engineering is astronomically unlikely. I think social stigma can have an influence on the amount of females that are attracted to the scene, yes. I don't see how it would affect their actual performances though. That there are less highly-skilled female players simply boils down to the fact that there are less female players in general. I'm not saying that acknowledging that different genders have done different things in the past is misogynistic. I'm saying that thinking "different genders have done different things in the past therefore that gender is better at it than the other" is widely considered to be misogynistic.

That is completely not what I wanted to say and I apologize if you got the impression I was supporting that claim. How? You have a choice - either commit professionally and spend a chunk of your life doing something, or not. If the environment you are presented to work in is hostile, uncomfortable, and is prone to having an atmosphere of rampant sexism, it could result in depression and other psychological ailments, which are very detrimental if you cannot get rid of them while in-game.

Are you unable to do both? In the smash scene (and lots of FGC game scenes) there are semi regular side events for female only participants. You can take part in this and still participate in every other tournament as well. I don't suggest it becomes a main income because it's not sustainable, but as regular asides I don't see what the issue would be? Does it not get enough support from the teams? Or sponsors? Smash has you regularly switching doubles partners, cross organisations week to week, are CS teams weirdly strict on this?

yeah sorry about that, it's dumb to assume that'd be obvious. I'm a little sleepy

CS is a team game. Pro players will scrim, review demos, practice executes, etc for hours a day as a team. It's just not feasible time wise to play on multiple rosters at a high level at once. This isn't just top top teams either, this is basically what any team that wants to compete seriously has to do. Contracts will also normally prohibit players from playing for other orgs, because that then prevents orgs from making eachother pay for their players as standins (hence why 99% of standins are free agents).

Didn't see it like that, I suppose that could be a factor indeed. I think that pretty much everybody in this thread agree with this post. Segregation rarely leads to cohesive and balanced mixed environment. It's much more likely to lead to segregational equilibriums. I don't see how it can be deemed a solution.