The Division studio believes being openly political in games is bad for business - Sensationalist Headlines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryz_lA3Dn4c&vl=en I was mildly interested in The Division 2, thinking it was going to be more political (and thus, interesting) than the previous, but alas. Same with Far Cry 5. Seems like even random innocuous things in games can cause significant controversy these days, so I'm not sure that targeting blandness and safety is going to help much in terms of business.

That's the problem. The opposing groups are inherently evil and that's really bad writing. The game says that the secret paramilitary is good. And it is good because the enemies it faces are pure evil and they are pure evil because the writers said so. Theres no nuance to that. Prison inmates and criminals, a significant part of the US population are written off as being disposable psychopaths just waiting for societal collapse to enact Thunderdome. Is that what the game is saying? Because its bullshit. The game's ultimate point is that government doesn't fail the people (like it did in 2004 and continues to do), it's all those insane criminal super predators (who totally exist) and people rightfully angry about being dumped by the people who were supposed to take care of them. You wouldn't need armed sleeper cells if the government could distribute food and water while housing refugees.

Yeah, but he feels betrayed because the government he expected not to fuck it up with their measures, fucked it up. As I said, partly political (measures set by govt to handle things didn't work, disenchantment with the govt handle on the catastrophe), partly not.

Okay, there's different levels of "politics" in games. There's stuff that doesn't even count like "greedy businessmen exist" and "evil dictators are evil". There's stuff that really shouldn't count, like "LGBT people exist" and "rampant pollution is bad". There's stuff that does count, like "be wary of fascism" and "there are bigots and they're bad people." There's stuff that's overly political, like "HAVE YOU HEARD OF FAKE NEWS" and "HERE'S A BILL O'REILLY PARODY". A normal person should only care when it gets overly political, or when one of the middle levels are poorly written. Hardcore US right-wingers care when any level exists. Of course there are hardcore left-wingers that complain "only a quarter of the characters are LGBT" and stuff like that, but there's way less of them and they're absolutely harmless.

Remember when it was so cool that Bioshock delved in to political themes of Objectivism and philosophical themes of the self and free will? Now it’s like games will be scrutinized for including a gay character.

So you dont like the overall premise? Like not all the criminals in the game are ingerently evil, theres some that work for the JTF because the factions are insane and a threat to everyone. Theres inmates who have fled or were killed while fleeing after seeing the horrible things they were doing. Like you didn't even play the game so I get how you can sit outside and think its some sleeper cell going around killing undesirables, but its not. The goverment failed because of a global outbreak and factions using said outbreak to gain power. (Lmao at the "like it did in 2004 comment) and the general populace isn't upset about it. Its understandable the government cant handle literally thousands dieing from the flu, up to the point where central park is a mass grave site that had to be shut down due to too many bodies. People who are the victims understand this, so do the factions. Thats why the factions are using said outbreak to get complete control via killing people and hoarding supplies. Its not just NY that is infected, its across the entire globe. They did, for nearly a month in fact, but then terror cells started killing people and cutting off resources, hence the division was called in for support.

It's like any other touchy subject. If you write something good, you can make good commentary and your game will be improved by it. If the writing is abysmal or subpar you are going to hurt your game. I think it's a bit idiotic to outright drop any game because they would be politically charged, but there is definitely some wisdom in trying to avoid them as a default stance because video games are seldom known for the quality of their writing, and as such any political commentary is likely going to be bad, hamfisted, pointless or nonsensical.

To be fair sometimes it doesn't feel like it's a gay character in a natural way, but rather a gay character to say they have a gay character. Sometimes even feeling like them being gay is pretty much their primary point. No one (or at least, less people) would care if it didn't feel like some companies like EA were trying to proclaim how progressive they are in a way that feels just plain dishonest and using such writing and characters as a selling point rather than a natural context.

Deus Ex's marketing blurb on the Steam store literally says its story is based on real world political movements and ideologies: Strong storyline: Built on "real" conspiracy theories, current events and expected advancements in technology. If it's in the game, someone, somewhere believes

Yeah, and the terrorist leader in the first level literally starts monloguing about stuff like debt and loans and shit. Its very openly political.

The game also openly says everything that terrorist leader says is correct.

I think he said something like the games they make are politcal and make statements, but not in the way that they would deliberately go out and tell you what to vote or what to believe, if I remember correctly at least.

Makes sense in theory but in practice, not really. Basing a game around a hot-button issue is probably going to draw a lot of ire but that's not usually why games do poorly. Call of Duty, Metal Gear Solid, Bioshock, Grand Theft Auto, and Deus Ex are games with very political but are still some of the most highly regarded and best selling franchises of all time. Even a game 'plagued with sjw shit' like rainbow six siege and the new asscreeds are doing extremely well because theyre just good games. The recent bioware games on the other hand are famous for their sjw lgbt stuff but that's not the reason for why they did so terribly, it's just because they were awful, buggy, and boring.

Ubisof has lost their way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8A30UhRS0Y

Tell me what political group or movement Deus Ex overtly supports. The game presents a bunch of different viewpoints and literally gives you the power to decide which one you most believe in. Maybe I didn't make myself clear in my last post so I'll rephrase it: 'Based on real ideologies' doesn't mean 'ramming an ideology down your throat', which is what people tend to mean by media being 'openly political'.

The story clearly sets up Bob Page and the Illuminati as the bad guys, and that the NSF were in fact the ones that were correct. You know, the ones the monologued about debt and capitalism etc... While at the end you do get to choose, they clearly had a vision in mind for what was "right" in terms of the story.

People are sensitive to having their worldviews challenged through a medium they care about, especially video games. Why open up to a changing world when you can just write a game off as shit and blame it on the parts that you don't agree with?

Well I mean, even when you're generous and assume an even split (say republican/democrat) you alienate a decent bit of your playerbase either way.

Deus Ex is strongly anti-elitist though, there is no option in the game that lets you side with bob page, and almost every organization you cooperate with have huge themes explored about power in the hands of few and how they can manipulate the world we think we see in order to benefit themselves. It's not a uncommon theme in conspiracy fiction, calling Deus Ex apolitical is like calling Thomas Pynchon apolitical.

Funny enough there was going to be an entire branch of the story where you do infact side with the Illuminati but they couldn't get it finished. Deus Ex is absolutely political, but as I said previously it's much more broad. Instead of being about a specific sort of event or person or whatever, it's about humanity itself and actually nuances the hell out of every one. Things the NSF say are right, but they're also responsible for quite a lot of tragedy and misguided ideologies. The Illuminati are manipulative and elitist, but they also make valid points about trying to do it for the betterment of humanity as a whole even if their methods are deplorable. Similarly as I mentioned is Metal Gear Solid. The Patriots aren't explicitly wrong in their desire to control and guide humanity because things have gone to shit. But they're still a fascist, totalitarian organization willing to take on any risk they deem will have a net positive for humanity. Like if a game sets out to just make lampoons of political figures or talking points like an Obama parody or characters talking about building a wall, you're going at it from a bad start. But if you approach it with a concept like the tendency of governments trend towards fascism over time, or the consequences of unchecked capitalism, those are great starts. Those are concepts and debates that have existed in some form for ages and likely will outlive all of us alive now. In even 10 years media that just spends too much time making fun of Obama or trying to allegory the border wall and immigration situation are probably going to be comically out of date. But if you bring these up as little parts of a much bigger debate about humanity and society, you can become a Deus Ex or Metal Gear Solid. Outside of a vocal group of idiots who just don't want politics they disagree with, this is basically what everyone who complains about video game politics is actually trying to say.

Politics in games only works if it makes sense in the context of it's universe in addition to being relevant to the time it was released. From my experiences with the people who say "I don't want politics in my game", what they are really saying "I don't want some writer shoehorning his pet political beliefs into a work in a half-assed way". Personally, I can't even name a game that I've played that actually did that, I don't think I've ever played a game that half-assed a political message, if it had one to begin with. I don't believe a game needs to have a political message to be interesting, and I don't think games in general are inherently political. But that doesn't mean I won't appreciate a game that does successfully pull off a political theme. Like, okay, for example, Fallout New Vegas is a very political game. The main premise has clear parallels to the War On Terror (hell, you could apply the conflict between the NCR and the Legion to any armed conflict America's been involved in from Vietnam onward). It also has a very clear message of "Democracy is flawed" with it's depiction of the NCR. However, it works because again, it makes sense in the context of it's universe, it seems plausible that such events COULD happen in the Fallout universe. It also doesn't outright tell you what conclusion you should draw from it, it lets you draw your conclusions on your own, to the point that you could probably pinpoint a person's IRL political beliefs based on which faction they side with in the endgame. Lastly, the choices you make have fairly realistic consequences, and no matter what you do the game world isn't going to become a peaceful utopia forever and ever. To me, this is a perfect example of a game pulling off a political message and making it work. I credit that as being part of the reason why it continues to be one of my top favorite games of all time. As for The Division, it WOULD be what some would believe to be an ideal place to put in a political message, but the developers chose not to (at least not consciously). Is it okay to be disappointed about it? Of course it is, some people like to play games with political messages. Nothing wrong with that. Does it mean the game's going to suck because it's not going to try to be political? Fuck no. I mean, from what I've heard about the first game, it'll probably suck for different reasons (cougheverythingsabulletspongecough), but not having a political message doesn't make a game boring in and of itself. But in this current political climate where even the slightest hint of an opposing opinion can bring untold amounts of hate and vitriol, what should be a complete nontroversy instead brings... this. I guess in the end that means this dude's right, one way or another. Only time (and sales figures) will determine exactly how right he is.

There are three endings, and all involveBob Page being either killed or rendered irrelevant, with only one involving the Illuminati taking power. You're free to choose whether it's better to instead reboot (w/ Tong) or fix things yourself (w/ Helios). None of the three endings are what the NSF wanted, even if they were 'right' about Page and the Illuminati, so I don't see how you can declare that any particular ending represents what the developers want you to believe- especially when they planned a story branch where you join the Illuminati, but had to cut it due to time constraints. In any case, the NSF are also also explicitly depicted as equal parts revolutionaries and violent extremists so there's plenty of morally grey to go around, before they disappear from the narrative in the second act, so it's not like the game sets them up as the unequivocal protagonists and has you carry out their ideology to the end. If anything I'd say Tong is more the one who's depicted as 'right', and even then he's got some weird ideas and you're free to tell him to shove it. The only time the game railroads you into telling you what to believe is when it's absolutely necessary to allow the plot to progress (defecting from UNATCO).That's how you make a politically-themed game without being partisan. Tell a story and let the player decide what to believe. I never said Deus Ex is apolitical. This is like arguing that there's no difference between Dan Brown and Ayn Rand because they both have political themes. Of course they both have overt political themes, but one is telling a story, and the other is selling an ideology. Apples and oranges. They're not the same, and one is overwhelmingly less likely to court controversy than the other.

You also have to be weary of pundits and idiots that try to make politics out of nothing. Spider-Man for PS4 doesn't really try to be political, unless you interpret a local city mayor declaring martial law and hiring a PMC military organization to deal with localized crime-gang terrorism to be a statement, but out of fucking nowhere I think it was a Kotaku article bitching that the game wasn't "political enough". Because it didn't portray all cops as trigger-happy corrupt assholes, even though the prologue has corrupt police try to cap Spidey.

That was my issue with all that controversy surrounding Far Cry 5. So many people were outright flabbergasted that it wasn't a "shoot right-wing Trump-supporting nazis" simulator and that the villains were more of a milquetoast doomsday cult. Funny thing is, if you looked closely enough, the game had some subtle jabs against Trump, and I'm not talking about that silly "Make Hope County Great Again" mission. Like, if you paid attention to to monologues the villains give to you (rather than mashing buttons to skip those monologues like most of us probably were), you'd notice that part of the reason why the Seed family believed the end was nigh boils down to "Trump is a shitty president who might accidentally cause WWIII with a tweet". I'm pretty sure it was John Seed who outright says "look at who we have running this country" in his last monologue, which could be referring to the American government as a whole or Trump himself. But because the game wasn't beating you over the head with it, it flew over the heads of a lot of those aforementioned pundits and idiots.

Do you have any examples of games shoehorning in neoliberal politics?

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51FyD98hdNL._SX385_.jpg

I think politics in games have their place. Final Fantasy Tactics and the Ogre games do a good job of mixing medieval tropes with more contemporary and fantasy stuff and wrapping it in a character-driven narrative. Politics can't exist without a correspondingly fleshed out world, because they entail cultural zeitgeist and actions and reactions certain characters or groups took. The dynamic can be very interesting and it's a focus of many classic pieces of fiction. On the other hand, you can also portray politics as a black box of shadowy figures who only seem to exist to make your life harder. Papers Please is a good example of that. Nowadays, it seems kinda hard to say what politics are considering we're now in a highly competitive and globalized world but the kind of social apathy and self-centered, destructive behavior of people doesn't sound new. There's a reality to an individual having no power over the world, yet there are individuals who hold more power than some sovereign nations. The problems are the same old but the stakes and the circumstances have changed dramatically.

The way I see it I don't mind politics in game per say, but they have to be part of the game's world and writing. You can't just force a stance in. It has to come across as organic or else you'll just turn people off. I don't care if a character is left or right, I just want that character to be more than someone's Mary Sue mouthpiece.

MGS2 and Deus Ex did politics better than any video game and they did it through a compelling narrative rather than the hamfisted stuff you see today.

Common as in one