• Fallout 76’s Physics are tied to Framerate
    103 replies, posted
The physics seem to be entirely clientside. Was watching Vinny play yesterday, and everything kept bugging out - but the 13 year old kid in his party didn't notice shit like a bicycle spawning inside him or a dog approaching with a box embedded into it.
I wish they would adapt idtech to open world and use it instead of using this scuffed piece of crap.
"Quake Netcode" my ass.
Reminds me of the good ol' days of C&C: Red Alert. On a 133MHz Pentium chip: Runs a'ight. On a friend's 733MHz Pentium III: the slowest units are suddenly teleporting across the map and tanks are machine guns.
So how does one display loose objects in their abodes? Is it entirely impossible now?
I haven't seen any of the house stuff. Are houses like separate loading zones? Well I can imagine 2 scenarios: 1 - Things will load in the position they were in when you entered the zone, but if you move them around only you will see it. 2 - Object positions won't sync or save at all, and every time you enter your house will be free of random objects But idk. Does anyone know?
Or "fast mode" in Simtower. Mid-90s PowerPC Mac: Reasonable speed. 333 Mhz PII: Okay days only take a few seconds. Its a little fast. Sandy Bridge i5: Annnnnnd that's a decade simulated in five seconds.
So thats what was causing it? Fucking hell i thought my game was haunted or something every playthrough
Imagine a dude running around at mach speed because he's looking at the ground like a Goldeneye speedrunner
I remember unlocking the FPS being an issue in GTA. GTA2, to be specific. Which is from 1999. And even back then it was kind of inexcusable given other games ran just fine at above 30 fps! It's pretty amusing Bethesda decided that fixing this outstanding issue was too much effort for a multiplayer title where having a higher running speed is massive advantage over other players. It's like they took don't fix what isn't broken to mean don't fix whatever's broken, just ship as-is because nobody cares anyway.
Saints Row 3's multiplayer does this, too. Synchronization is tied to framerate - the farther apart the framerates between the two people playing are, the more out of sync they become. I played Saints Row 3 on my beefy gaming computer that was able to pull 90+ fps easily, with my friend on his gaming laptop that struggled to pull 45. With us both in a car, whoever is driving would stop - but for the other person, the could would continue on for nearly 4 full car lengths, hitting everything in its way, before suddenly rubberbanding to where it had stopped. We had to solve that by having me turn on VSync to limit me to 60 fps, and he had to lower his settings to minimum to get to 60 fps. Once we did, game played like a dream. But we shouldn't have had to do that. I'm getting nightmare flashbacks to Freelancer multiplayer. In a nutshell, the server did no verification at all for Freelancer. It just assumed all clients were running identical logic. Combine that with modding, and if you had a client tell the server that there's 60 alien battleships outside the starting planet, the server would just go "yep that sounds good" and tell all the other clients about the 60 alien battleships outside the starting planet. I use Freelancer as an example of how to not do server/client netcode, to this very day.
I understand your frustration and your opinions are valid and your argument is both logical and reasonable. However. Let me offer up my counter argument: https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/273775/e7ecdbc7-7497-4cbe-8d8c-024bf0b20230/image.png
I wonder if this is one of those things where the people who originally wrote the creation/gamebryo engine have long left bethesda, and they are stuck band-aiding things together because there are no employees with deep-level understanding of the game engine. Also this game has some really annoying marketing, my goodness
I will gladly pay 60 moneys for Fallout 76 in exchange for that sick miniature MG42.
Also an issue in VC and SA, where unlocking the FPS makes you unable to finish some missions as the cars/boats go slower. Haven't heard of it being a problem in IV / V though.
III/VC are fucking nuts on super high FPS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoZKBEk_yTc This is VC running at 400-600FPS for example
what do you mean?
It's simpler to code
no, you disable iPresentInterval because Bethbryo's implementation of vsync is horrible, and then you force vsync in the driver
This game literally exists because there was financial demand for it.
I remember playing San Andreas when dual cores were just coming out for the first time, and when I loaded it up on my brand new Athlon 64 x2 the game ran at super speed and was basically unplayable until someone released a dual core patch for it. Good times.
Oh yeah, that's true, I totally forgot! I got Vice City to run at 300 fps on my shitty laptop and everything was broken. Even the clock ran too fast. Fadeouts would generally not just work, car handling turned super sticky and made drifting and reversing impossible and all the stunt jumps were completely undoable because physics were also tied to the framerate and you could hit a ramp at full speed and barely get any air out of it. Rockstar really is a special case when it comes to PC versions of their games.
I think they saw PUBG and Fortnite and went to the drawing board and went right, how can we slap together something out of what we already have to closely resemble that
Hell even modern insanely popular games have problems with this, for example a rank up mission in the popular f2p game Warframe had the objective that you had to out dps a constantly regenerating target while enemies were chasing you around, but if you had like 40 fps or under you literally couldn't out dps it, and if you unlocked your framerate you could almost oneshot it
Why isn't anyone mentioning that framerate independent physics has been a thing since, like, 2003 with the source engine? That makes it an even bigger embarrassment Imo.
That's not entirely true. There are source games that have a locked tickrate: https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/218604/db3eeebf-6199-41c4-881a-ac5c5613e3d3/image.png Source Multiplayer Networking
well it's framerate independent, isn't it?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, it doesn't go against the statement that the in-game simulation rate is independent from the graphical refresh rate.
That doesn't contradict what they said, in fact that is the very method that source uses to decouple physics from framerate. Tick rate is a constant "this is how many ticks are called per second." It's independent of framerate so if you have a tick rate of 60 but you get 20fps, the engine still gets 60 ticks per second to perform the relevant updates.
Yes, but if you change the simulation's frame rate in TF2, spawn doors will open at a different speed. Thus the physics are not framerate independent. But after your post I realized he wasn't referring to the physics framerate at all and I misinterpreted his post. My bad.
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