Artifact is released (Also Valve acknowledges Half-Life exists) - Sensationalist Headlines

Umm no actually we dislike both dota and artifact for extremely specific and comprehensive reasons that were outlined earlier in the thread, the fact that the games violate the integrity of the company is more of a five pound cherry on top. I clearly stated that I dislike dota for more reasons other than just the fact that it was made by the people who have nothing to do with it.

Okay, so you are arguing about Artifact. So I'll refer you here, to the reasons that I dislike Artifact:

If it's because the of the long games then fine. For the toxicity I understand but know that Valve does their best to combat it and that even TF2 has some form of toxicity. The problem lies how you paint dota as the end of half-life being the main reason you guys dislike the game that bothers me. And honestly if you were to blame something for half-life's sad fate then it would probably be STEAM's massive success and TF2's successful economy. And no disliking dota purely because of half-life is not a valid reason. This comes off as petty because it's not the game you like and that means nobody else should.

Where did I mention a single thing in which I forced other people to dislike the game? It would certainly be petty if I went around steam reviews or Dota threads and shat on it, however this thread is pretty no man's land in terms of what people like and dislike to my awareness. If you want to like the game and do not give a single shit about Valve's past that is absolutely fine, however I prefer to have actual sense of continuity of what a company does and what is out of character for it to do. Just because those things were the start of the [process does not mean that dota 2 is not the continuation of that process.

https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/216552/294e5fff-afd7-48ff-9544-fbecd8a80e91/image.png I may be a little biased here, but imo, please don't treat dota like it's a terrible game. It's given a lot to me and my friends, since I started playing in 2014. Though you can criticize the monetization as well as the unfair amount of attention Valve gives it, and I agree to an extent. Artifact definitely has its own share of problems as well, and I don't really see myself playing it.

But TF2 can still get a free pass because you people like it? And concerning this Where did I mention a single thing in which I forced other people to dislike the game? You would probably be glad if valve never did dota 2 or stopped working on it at some point. also someone tell me how to separate quotes I don't understandddd

I did not mention a single thing about TF2 and no it currently does NOT get a free pass with what has happened to it. In what way does this force people to dislike the game?

Like this https://reel.geel.tf/xnigk3jj0h1povf7obel.mp4

This does not force people to dislike the game. What I mean is if someone that disliked a game like dota and then being very happy the game is being shut down despite a large playerbase loving it, all because Valve isn't making half-life is petty. That kind of dislike is dumb.

A game like dota would never be flat out shutdown it would just be moved to a different company more than likely. It's far too huge to just irreversibly crap itself out of existence like some smaller MP games.

Best thing that will come out of Artifact will be the artwork.

Why must the game be produced by someone other than Valve? If it's so you could ignore it then you can do it right now too.

No, it's so that Valve would hypothetically do something else. And the main point of the post was more focused on what would have happened if Dota was threatened and could no longer be with Valve, which would make its shutdown highly unlikely and it would probably end up with someone else.

I don't give a shit if valve made artifact or not. The point is the game is a shitty cash grab, and i'm a lot more annoyed that people are willing to defend it's horrible practices just because its a valve game. EA pulled this shit literally last year with battlefront 2 and starcards and everyone was pissing and screaming about it being p2w garbage. Valve does the same thing, but has the entire game built around the cards and gets a free pass. Same thing happened with for honor and the cosmetics shop where someone found it would cost $1K to get every cosmetic in the base game or grinding for like 20 years or some shit. People screamed about how that part of the game was locked behind grind and the price for shit was insane, This was with cosmetic items that give literally 0 benefits to your gameplay while artifact is entirely driven by their microtransactions.

Which further reinforces why they never explicitly said that Half-Life was cancelled, they were exploiting their formerly good image ultra hard.

I've given up on valve's image since the 4th (?) international event for D2 where before the compendium used to unlock all the rewards after i think $60-100 donation (which was fine because it was a lot of shit), but then they spread out that content across $1K+ donation with a lot of the "rewards" being cheap effects that only lasted for the event and disappeared afterwards. They got ultra greedy and seeing their other IPs wither away just reinforced it. But that's besides the point, if any other dev or pub did this level of heinous micro transactions for their games, they would have been ass blasted into orbit by everyone like BF2 and most ubi games have.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Artifact/comments/a1ikq9/artifact_has_the_best_monetization_model_of_any/

I mean, there's been plenty of criticism of TF2's lootboxes and cosmetics over the years. It just gets less hate because it was released without those things as part of the orange box, which was partially responsible for the positive perception of Valve because it was such an amazing deal for games of such high quality the introduction of it's monetization was really gradual. Like, they really boiled the frog by starting with free updates with items earnable through achievements, then adding random drops, crates and keys, and finally the microtransaction store. TF2 has also gotten a lot less attention from Valve as of late. I don't think people care whether or not Valve made a game like DOTA, they just care about the fact they they only make games like DOTA now. If they had released pretty much any singleplayer game in the 7 years since Portal 2, even if it wasn't HL, then we would at least have some reason to think that they care about more than microtransactions. Instead, they broke a 5 year silence to release Artifact, an overly monetized card game in the DOTA universe. Like, if it wasn't fair to think of the DOTA franchise as symbolic of the problems with new Valve before, it definitely is now.

People don't seem to believe me but if you had the perspective of Valve I have you'd probably wholeheartedly agree. Valve has been moving in this direction for a long time. Every single action they have taken has been to make trading less appealing, convenient, and accessible. They require that you have the Steam Guard mobile authenticator installed on a smartphone with SMS verification in order to trade. Items in CS:GO can't be traded for an entire week each time they're traded. I don't think their stated goals are disingenuous here; I don't think they're implementing these changes while rubbing their hands and going "haha, this will stop those pesky trades!" Rather, it demonstrates that they do not value the ability to freely trade items any more than they have to. With Artifact, they have the opportunity to just forego trading altogether, and they're absolutely taking it. They have openly stated that they regret how they allowed people to gain items for free in TF2. I have spoken with developers at Valve and seen their public posts, and their perception of how Steam Trading is used and valued is completely out of touch. They seriously do not understand the value their customers find in the ability to freely trade their items. I don't think they're all idiots and I'm the genius who can see what none of them can; but it is extremely difficult for a company to understand the perspective of its customers (companies tend to put millions into this research, and I doubt Valve has done that tbh). Plus, Valve employees are banned from trading (due to the obvious conflict of interest), so they literally do not have a customer's perspective on this feature.

But why is Dota 2 being bombarded then? He made a good point, DOTA 2 team does not deserve boycott.

Let me quote myself from one of the Fallout 76 threads: Malvodion posted: There are some people who really struggle dealing with massive amounts of dissapointment, so they simply pretend everything is fine and anything that denies it is twisted lies and entitled toxicity. Though in this case, its kinda worse because there is also people there who don't actually care all that much about artifact, but its the first valve game in too long and this is all they got so they feel they Must support it. It's very sad.

Alright, just let me leave a coda here. I am not defending Artifact just because it is a Valve game. I am not defending Artifact because of the monetization. I am, shilling it, so to speak, because Artifact is a solid card game that seems to get a lot of preconceived hate. I want to share the game with Facepunch, and not see contempt every thread I go to. It is totally reasonable to despise the business model. The "pay to pay to play" part. I don't fully support it as well. It being cheaper than already exploitative TCG model is not an excuse. I see merits in the business model, but only if the cost ceiling is reasonable. My threshold is of that of a AAA game. Everybody has different expectations, I respect that. I personally do not like TCG/CCG being bind to the free to play model. And it being a card game shouldn't be devalued and shunned into free to play standards. Artifact has fair share of flaws, mainly surrounding the ability to obtain cards. Valve should figure out a way to circumstance external issues and enable trading. Valve should consider a discount on market fees as the economy relies so much on it. Valve should not have '8% house edge' on expert play modes to 'maintain their server'. They already made plenty. Valve should not gatekeep the game by forcing people to buy-in $20 worth of packs. Really, the collection still shouldn't cost so much. These are reasonable demands. Although being able to grind free cards is all's well, I had my reasons to not support it. As such, I and along many, have avoided the marketplace and all source of microtransactions. However, it does not stop us from enjoying the other core aspect of the game: phantom draft. We want the game to be better. We don't want to deal with these compromises. I protest by showing interest in the game and voicing my concerns, while withholding any further spending. Pointing at it and calling it "not-game" doesn't help anyone. Pointing at it and crying "I can't believe Valve haven't repaid us our next single player game yet" doesn't help anyone. Pointing at it and going "I can't believe you are not as outraged as everybody else" doesn't help anyone. By all means, if you have issues with the game, or the finer details regarding how nickle-and-dime it can be, voice them out. As long it is not an uneducated whine. It gets tiring as a frequent user of this forum, to see the outrage culture spreading and piling all over. Justified hate is reasonable, all I ask is go beyond reading the headlines.

Can you please explain how Dota is utilizing addictive strategies to keep a high player count? I want to see what people think is part of the "addictive" process that Dota has. To add onto this, most people who are toxic in Dota have a strong competitive drive. The game is based around timings on items and drafts. The reason why people get so angry is because it is a team game. If one of your teammates fuck up, it can cost you the whole game.

I think your words fall on deaf ears here.

the genre doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it isn't a decent game in its genre.

There are multiple issues that, even if the game is a well made card game, the design and the timing surrounding the game ruins it. Artifact, simply put, is bogged down by an archaic ways of monetization that came from classic TCGs, (which is probably partly to blame on Richard Garfield...) Compare the methods of gaining cards in Artifact to that of Hearthstone. Sure, Hearthstone is a grindy mess, but at least there is a way to consistently get card packs without spending money to build decks. If I were to point to an obscure card game that does it well online, I would point to Shadowverse. It might be extremely anime, but you can consistently get 1-2 card packs a day by doing daily missions. After a few months of playing, I have around ~10 working rotation decks. Not only that, but they support multiple formats to play the game in. (Legacy, which has every card expansion, and Rotation, that only has the 5 newest card expansions. Another thing to point to the complete dismay of the aura surrounding the game, it was announced after multiple other card games have already been released. This makes the game seem like a cash in, (which is furthered fulled by the godawful monetization...) along with following a trend, as opposed to setting a trend as other Valve games have done in the past. (You can even point to Dota. The creation of the international led to a bunch of Moba clones being released.) Third, and one of the most important, this game is coming out after a long period of Valve not making games. It would at least have some leeway if it was a game made amidst other New Valve titles, but there aren't any. All of these lead to a feeling of betrayal and and distrust. I cannot blame anyone for feeling disappointed in how Artifact came out.

Things aren't going to change if people just "silently protest" it, while letting all the problems be. You seem to think that they'll actually care. If they cared about you, the game wouldn't have been relased in this state, some would say it wouldn't have been created.

Never-ending depth in strategy and execution. Even a player who never changes their hero, build and strategy plays every match slightly differently, facing off different adversaries and teammates that offers a wide range of synergy and obstacles. Like all games that depends heavily on the pursuit of mastery, it is a carrot that many will chase. Dota just happens to be one of the games with the most amount of 'wild' modifiers to each match, only its barrier of complexity impeding it from extreme popularity. Once player count start to dwindle, they release a patch that changes 50% of the game. The level of game-changing patch is almost unparalleled. It is common to blame others for mistakes. The less an individual can contribute, the more frustration it will cause. Those who condone the business model are primarily TCG players. Don't get me wrong, they aren't wrong or naive for accepting it, it would be hypocritical otherwise. The audience for premium (buy once, own all) and freemium (free, pay if desire) outnumber them due to the appeal of ownership and gratis respectively. I think breaking a product down and selling it in hundred pieces has its pull, encouraging communities to interact and trade, instead of isolated hoarding. It is ultimately unfortunate that it is ground for commercial exploits. Perhaps it is a wake-up call that no matter how great a product is, the demands of the market are the judge and tyrant. Funny, to think the corporations being the bootlickers.

I am not too much of an expert when it comes to CS:GO however it has considerably more outlets of zero pressure practice with other people than dota seems to have. If you get angry in deathmatch in csgo it's possible to just leave, or in a casual match. Everything in CS:GO feels considerably less pressuring and less time compressed than things in dota, the nightmare of an ultra long match never feels like it's hanging over your shoulders, and shit talking never feels as bad as it does in dota. Something that makes dota addicting would be the gargantuan amount of things that there is to learn in the game due to the high quantity of vastly different heroes, while in csgo there is a comparatively small quantity of skills that can be practiced exclusively. A review on steam mentioned how it's practically impossible to truly master dota and how now one, even the pros, can state with confidence that they mastered the game with how it is setup, while in cs a number of players COULD make such a statement with confidence. To reinforce this even further, the game matchmaking is apparently setup in such a way that players ALWAYS feel inadequate about their gameplay, even as a multi thousand hour veteran, it is a game of always improving but never feeling like you actually improve, which quite probably makes people even more pissed off than before. Dota 2 is also addicting because of how much raw "crap to do" there is and how enormously micromanagement based it is, giving its players an almost cookie clicker sort of effect.

stop https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/497/1fe71673-5f4f-4b5b-88de-41b16731ef56/image.png stop buying it why are people supporting this stop