PewDiePie gives shout out to hateful, anti-Semitic YouTube channel - Sensationalist Headlines

At the very least we can assume he watched the death note video he recommended, which had a super hilarious Heather Heyer skeptic joke just kind of chilling there. Am I 1) supposed to assume he just didn't notice this part of the video at all, or, 2) Accept that it's totally fine to recommend videos with this Alex Jones-esque sense of humor to a fanbase of 70 million? This is, again, just assuming that he's literally only ever watched that one video by this guy and that this sort of politically charged humor doesn't show up anywhere else in his content. Youll have to forgive me for not wanting to watch all of it to find out, it's not really my thing.

It's probably a mistake, but he has a responsibility with his platform. Endorsing the whole channel based on a video or two, or without digging deeper is a bad mistake. Especially in current Youtube world and with an account with social-political meme videos. We should expect those higher standards for someone with as much influence as PDP.

Well this is where I disagree with you. That's the point of a joke. You know, something that isn't true? What consequence is there? Journalists who take the joke out of context and call Pewdiepie a misogynist and nazi? My point with that statement is that anyone with even 1/4th a brain understands that it's a complete joke, so it's not harmful at all.

I've already outlined what possible consequence lies behind a joke. Humor is often political and social and thus both reflects and shapes attitudes of both. Let's just take the one joke I saw lifted out from E;R's video. The one that calls into question Heather Heyer actually... you know... being struck and killed by a Nazi at a rally. What's the point of that joke? Genuinely asking. What element of that "isnt true" (whatever that means)? Do you think that E;R is sympathetic to Heyer at all after making that joke? What part of that joke is being taken out of context? Do you think it's unfair to call that joke insensitive and encouraging of dangerous ideology? Don't turn me into a strawman either. When did I say anything about banning anything? I can condemn one's sense of humor and call it irresponsible and potentially harmful without wanting it banned.

We're talking about Pewdiepie's jokes and you bring up some jokes from E;R. I never said all jokes are okay, I'm specifically defending Pewdiepie's content.

I apologize, since I think my wording was a bit confusing. When I was referring to the whole "its just a joke/meme/prank" excuse, it was more or less in opposition to the entire principle of that sort of argument, not exclusively in regards to PDP's content (although the Death to all Jews joke is a potential example of this sort of thinking). The entire point of this controversy is that Pewdiepie is endorsing this E;R guys content. I don't really want to go too into PDP's content because, as I said, I don't really watch it and thus I can't make a comment on it outside of the previous controversies that have cropped up in the past (which I still do think are at the very least somewhat indicative of a continuing trend). Let's just focus on the E;R endorsement for now. Do you think it was OK for PDP to endorse this guy's channel? I don't really think it's reasonable to call it a "mistake" based on what we know so far. He commented on the video containing the joke I posted earlier giving his full enthusiasm towards the content presented. The baseline understanding we have of PDP's engagement with this guy's content is that he JUST watched this video alone, which is already enough to see it as intentional and condemnable. This is, again, assuming that this is the only video he has ever watched of this guys channel, and HE STILL ENDORSED IT ANYWAY. I guess the best you could say is that he didn't understand the Heather Heyer reference when he watched it. If that's the case, then it is what it is. For the record, I think the jury's out on PDP's actual moral and political alignment, but that's not really what anyone was trying to discern in the first place. I, for one, think he's just another product of the whole irreverent dark meme humor that sees nothing as off limits and frequently engages in anti-PC rhetoric. What people have been criticizing him of for a while now, and are again doing so with this incident, is that he has very little regard for the responsibility his platform carries.

hey almost like the guy who got called out for being a nazi was actually a nazi or something who would of thought when will you people stop willingly dismissing alt-right propaganda because it's attached to your favorite meme

Tbh I think he is just watching too much youtube/relying on too much youtube content. Anyone who has been on the site will notice that content gets more extreme the "deeper" you go. It's promoted by the shitty youtube algorithms. It's bound to happen. What's worthy of critique is his carelesness, not that he some how is an alt-righter or something

This is a disingenuous argument and you're pretending Pewdiepie is related to this channel aside from his recommendation. It's like you didn't read the thread or something. Pewdiepie isn't engaged alt-right propaganda. You don't seem like you know his content at all and are basing your opinion purely on hearsay.

PDP's fanbase is mostly kids, and with as we saw with the "just a prank" stuff a while back, throwing a 'just kidding' on there won't stop em from thinking it's fine. And with the way he's able to boost sales of games it wouldn't be much of a stretch to see him influencing his fans in other ways, especially with how we've seen kids see creators as their friends and role models.

Those videos wouldn't even register as out of the ordinary shitposting from 2005 era internet. Calling it "nazi propoganda" is hyperbolic nonsense.

Like, here's the thing. What do people think is going through the heads of people who make such hilarious jokes as "heather heyer was a crisis actor". Do you think they're just being completely edgy with absolutely no stake of their own in the matter? Do they think these jokes come from an uncaring, unfeeling algorithm that draws literally no social or political influence into their comedy? With the massive ocean of political comedy surrounding us, which is undoubtedly formed by and influential to the political attitudes of society, you would think we would have moved past "humor is essentially meaningless, independent of influence, and utterly inconsequential" by now.

Does Youtube even represent demographics younger than 18 in its statistics? I imagine there are a lot of kids who also either dont have accounts or set their age to 18. I actually can't even find that data anymore, so if you have a source I'd be very appreciative!

Interesting, thank you!

Honestly, I've been thinking for a while if this recent alt-right internet culture is partially a result of people seeing old shitposting and taking it at face value instead of just offensiveness for offensiveness sake.

I've mulled over this idea on a more intangible, "meta"-level (I dont have a better word for this lol). I've always wondered if all of the edgy, offensive humor that's pervaded the internet throughout its history (it's irreverent portrayals of Hitler, Jews, minorities etc. just to name a few) has influenced genuine thoughts and values on these matters in an non-insignificant fashion. I think it's definitely plausible. The more observable phenomenon is, imo, this sort of humor "coming under attack by the PC-police" influencing a reactionary anti-PC sentiment. I've caught a lot of flak over the years for my personal theory on Gamergate's influence towards anti-PC backlash and, thus, alt-right attitudes, but to an extent I still stand by them just based on personal experience alone. I'd be interested in an actual study on this historical phenomenon, though, since the internet and the anonymity it provides has led to a largely unexplored frontier of the collective id that hasn't really been investigated that much.

Might be something to that. Back in the day of 4chan or wherever, frequently joking about out there shit like that overtime could've resulted in only retaining people who actually believe it in the longterm, or something to that effect. Personally i find the nazis and other such figures fucking hilarious. There's a comical pompousness to it all, both the desperate attempts at quasi divinity to the state and the absurdity of anyone taking it seirously, particularly the nazi supremicy shit. And that's why this stuff is funny https://youtu.be/2tkZ0u6Q-QM?t=289 If you actually go read any fascist literature (particularly mousilini's book), it reeks of something i can only describe as literal autism giving political form (kinda like whahhabisim actually). Everything has to be in perfect specific order, everything in place and unchanging from some divine hypothetical manifestation of the spirit of the people in the state/autocrat. If you find joking about this stuff distasteful, yeah i understand. Between them and the equally amusing communists, the 20th century was host to the worst scale of horrors yet seen. But contrary to popular outrage, I think joking about it further discredits these things, since the humor in jokingly saying "gas the jews" or whatever is finding amusement in the absurdity of someone actually believing in that shit. The joke in that is "look how horrible a person i am for buying into this shit", in the same way that playing the idiot is about the absurdity of someone being so dumb. Same shit. And again, if you find that kinda thing distasteful, yeah, perfectly reasonable. Saying that "Therefore, nobody's allowed to joke about it", that's where one can fuck right off. Banning people from joking about it actually empowers that shit by giving it an underdog mistique. And joking about it undermines it, because you're mocking it's absurdity. And, it's worth noting that for that reason the first person the soviets killed was a moscow stage clown, famous for his act where he mocked the Tsar. Humor is a tool to air the absurd, and identify the margins, not normalize it.

I actually don't disagree, I think this is very much an entirely possible interpretation of this sort of humor that I could potentially understand to some sort of extent. I've seen instances of jokes/humor that are so entirely and obviously antithetical to what they ridicule that I've seen the principle in action. I think the question is whether or not we can discern the line between completely unsympathetic and completely sympathetic sorts of jokes. I'd like to think that I'm personally capable of sussing out some of that just based on context and social cues, but humor is subjective so it's not so clear cut. My impression of people like E;R (and PDP to an extent) is that their edgy sense of humor isn't independent of their political values and beliefs, particularly in the case of the former. Call it a hunch, I guess, and in all fairness unless others can corroborate my intuition its a purely subjective view, so it's hardly much to draw from - but it's something I can't shake regardless. And, like I said before, I still think the actual pathos behind this humor is more or less irrelevant when talking about its impact.

I've tried to quantify that in the other posts I've made since then. Essentially, it's influential in a social context. One possible example is you're friends with someone who finds John Oliver super funny. You're pretty neutral politically but have some latent values that may predispose you towards being sympathetic to his politics. These values will manifest more in a more concrete fashion as his blend of humor and rhetoric influence you to agree with what he's saying and be a part of the collective that find his stuff funny. Your friend finds it funny, and on a subconscious level, you want to relate to your friend on this level, and thus you may be more inclined to give an open mind to what he presents in a typical 30 minute segment. Or in another case, let's say you stumble upon a subreddit full of "edgy" memes while browsing reddit proper. Maybe you see it linked or its a recommended sub or whatever. Subs like /r/cringeanarchy or /r/tumblrinaction have been cited amongst critics as "entry-level" subreddits where seemingly benign memes and humor can rapidly become political. At first you're just laughing about the dumb inane shit these people are saying, but in the comments there's real political criticism of the thought or behavior presented in these posts, and it results in a feedback loop that further politicizes the sub. I mean, just look at /r/cringeanarchy now. It's pretty much just a mess of vaguely-political memes that contain nuggets of ideology within their humor. Here's a random post I pulled off of the top weekly posts section. https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/238543/ca188644-6329-4276-b5c6-8f0c0f5b887f/image.png The joke here is that Transgender people kill themselves at a higher rate than the average population. Wow. What a joke. Certainly not rhetorically or politically charged whatsoever. Here are a few comments in the thread: "Or, as an old boomer at work said last week "In my day we used to beat the faggot out of them." Fucking love that guy." "BTFO (Beat The Faggot Out)" "LGBTQ [Let's go beat up the queers]" Mind, you, this isn't some super niche fringe sub or anything. This post had over 1k upvotes. I hope that if nothing else, this can illustrate how humor can contain politically charged elements and how sharing that humor can be influential in its spread.

You're looking at it the wrong way. Individuals just make up a larger collective of the social force that is comedy and humor. No one individual is that important in the grand scheme of things - but everyone plays a part, and some play more of a part than others. I also think that the paradigm is a little different in the modern era, and thus there isn't as much of a precedent for what we observe nowadays. The internet, internet memes, and the effusion of these memes throughout the web, dramatically change the nature of communication and information exchange. A lot of people get either their opinions reinforced or new opinions ingrained by random stuff they see on facebook, including things like advice animals. Memes are, if nothing else, remarkably efficient and effective at widespread information dispersion. /r/forwardsfromgrandma is another little quaint case study into this phenomenon, I find. It's an observation of the sort of new internet culture of sharing, forwarding, etc. various little nuggets of ideology that is practiced by, principally, grandparents. I'm sure anyone who has a conservative grandparent on facebook can relate to seeing stuff like this on your timeline. https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/238543/b9be5868-cb7e-4ec9-942f-95b422fdba0d/image.png Sure, I suppose to some extent it is just a harmless little joke, but ultimately it's still an argument for creationist thinking. This sort of thing is just a microcosm of the large ecosystem that ideology and humor coexist within in the information age.

Okay, so you seem to either not be familiar with the tactics employed here. Let me break it down. For the sake of argument, I'm Chucklefuck McGee, 10 year old who LOVES his Pewdiepie videos and watches a ton of them. I heard about this E;R guy from Pewd's video, and decided to check him out! https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/109715/26bc1bc7-a413-40af-b236-8d371961d4ea/2018-12-11_03-05-05.webm 1 click for "NPC" dehumanization along with decrying media as "NPC Media", 4 clicks to straight up QAnon conspiracy garbage channel covered in common alt-right(aka nazi) shit, 7 clicks to Fox News(literal republican propaganda network), 9 clicks to "SOROS" aka "THE JEWS", 11 clicks to a channel dedicated to sucking trump's dick and pushing the alt-right agenda and their conspiracy theories. This kid is now watching alt-right recruitment videos. He might even share some of them, not knowing the deeper implication, all the while fucking his feed up even more and giving these channels more hits. Come on. Be smart. Use your heads. The point of this is to get people to unwittingly seed their youtube recommendations with alt-right content. There's a LOT of people that will just leave Auto-Play on, and if they end up with alt-right content in there, they can end up autoplaying "EPIC SJW LIBERALS #OWNED BY BEN SHAPIRO #THEGREATAWAKENING". Pretending this isn't an issue is insane, especially with how many children and easily manipulated/easily manipulated teenagers use the platform.

E;R; is just a shitposter. I've watched some of his content and even if you think his humor is crass it's not the same as a some legit anti-fa or alt-right nuts. The fact that people can't tell the difference anymore is just a result of being the current year.

We don't need to "solve the puzzle", it's already been solved. Automated advertising tech that assumed no ill intent would be applied was used to spread toxic ideologies to idiots and children. And because we didn't actually do anything about it until it was too late, they've entrenched themselves by pushing ideas that cause enough cognitive dissonance with reality that we're ultra-fucked, as it's far far harder to get someone to admit they were wrong than it is to just continue holding and defending that bad idea or opinion.

This is actually a good point, one has to consider the algorithmic nature of content suggestion when gauging the influence of this sort of content.

Are you unaware about what you're being called out for? You're posing the argument that Pewdiepie himself is alt-right/nazi because he recommended the channel. Not everything is a fucking conspiracy.

Pewdiepie's aiding and abetting the alt-right by directing people to a channel that feeds people into the alt-right, as proven with that video. What more do you need? I even made a webm for proof, have you considered watching it? If you recommend a person who's content will link you to alt-right propaganda, you're aiding and abetting the alt-right, and by doing that you're aiding and abetting the recent Neo-nazi movement. This is literally how this shit works. Big influencer directs people to small channel that is set up to rig the recommendations system(which the alt-right is really fucking good at doing). Why are you plugging your ears and ignoring it?

Oh please. Aiding and abetting? Cut the hyperbolic bullshit. Your video proves that the algorithm is a piece of shit. Your video doesn't really prove anything about Pewdiepie, other than that he made an ill-informed recommendation. Good job, you've proven what everyone already knew. Stop this "guilt by association" shit. This is what leads to all the outrage culture nonsense we've been seeing for the past few years.

Hyperbolic? So you think it's literally not possible for someone with a lot of fans to have a bad opinion and then try to give said bad opinions to their fans? Seriously? We see this shit with Donald Trump every time he parrots some garbage conspiracy crap and then #wow #whoa it's MAINSTREAM now. This is a literal thing that happens. Stop pretending that because it's on youtube it can't happen, because it can. Stop hiding behind "BUT THE ALGO IS BROKEN" because it's reproducible without an algorithm. See: PROPAGANDA. My video proves the algorithm is shit, AND(key part here, you can draw MULTIPLE CONCLUSIONS from one piece of evidence that are NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE), that feeding it E;R(the thing Pewdiepie recommended) WILL give you alt-right content. What part of garbage in garbage out do you not understand?

So what does Pewdiepie have to do with E;R's views? You're saying Pewdiepie is alt-right based on that recommendation, which is just dishonest. He hasn't pandered any alt-right opinions to his fans so that's why you're being hyperbolic in your statements. No, I understand your point about the algorithm; but it has NOTHING to do with Pewdiepie unless you presume that he's alt-right and he's doing that on purpose (which there is no proof for nor any reason to believe in).

outrage culture, this is an interesting phrase. I wonder what happens if I plug that into youtube? https://file.house/z4lO.webm 3 clicks in recommended to get to BEN SHAPIRO. 4 to get to a channel peddling "FUCKING LIBERALS" and "LIBERAL LUNACY" and "Hey look trump is great". Weird how fast this term gets us directly into the alt-right sphere. Almost like it's one of the phrases they coined or something. Nice one, broski.