Boring Tunnel Opens with live Boring Product Unveiling
69 replies, posted
I do think the potential improvements in tunneling tech will be the biggest thing to come out of the Boring Co. We'll see what happens with transit but I'm still skeptical on wide-scale/cost effective-scale usage. Even if Boring Co ultimately fails, if they figure out a way to make tunneling a bit faster and cheaper, that's surely useful to the industry.
It's a fucking proof of concept relax
I am with you here. Individualised public transport seems like a big waste of resources, especially in comparison with trains, and outsourcing of costs to the users.
Why not just build trams?
The skates are a bit different than the vehicle he showed off at this event. They are a sidefriction EV upgrade that allows for them to natively traverse the tunnels. For gas cars, or for mass transit, they instead use a model X frame, with the car parked on top of it, or a more permanent pod.
https://fsmedia.imgix.net/7c/bf/64/a4/de79/45eb/9594/b942400dbae5/tesla-model-x-boring-company-tunnel.png
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5915617137c58104451ac5fb/5915632303596e4ba92724de/59261f6cf7e0ab55ef3e5102/1545124710153/Skate_5_23_2017_001%5B4%5D.jpg?format=1500w
The problem is that Elon Musk has been on record:
Hating public transit
Making fun of public transit experts
Trying to shoehorn in Tesla to everything
If his proof of concept is a single lane highway, with single points of entry he's basically reinventing the problems with the LA highway system which is at least designed for the volume.
You throw in empty trams ontop of the cars moving in the system? Fuck man. This is a proof of concept set up to fail. How badly? Chicago links it to a transit hub. That screams trust.
I'm fairly sceptical about this project, but this is gonna be a "single lane highway" in a very limited sense only - there will be multiple tunnels adjacent to each other, and only autonomous vehicles will be allowed in the tunnel. If you don't have human drivers, one car getting off the highway won't make everyone behind it brake.
the only improvement Musk has seemingly made is use a 12 foot wide bore instead of a 15 or 20 foot one which is probably all the savings. the issue is a 12 foot wide tunnel has really small gaging
So what happens when somebody drops a steel bar and it blocks the tunnel?
Converted the TBM they got to electric as well, so don't have to worry about ventilation issues.
So is he going to use this to make big efficient electric public transport or will it always remain a small volume operation?
I would hate to be stuck in a tiny tunnel in backed-up traffic waiting to be offloaded into the street, which might already be in traffic.
Automatic drivers are even worse at reading traffic.
This is sorta like complaining the first car was worse than horses or whatever. It might not be untrue, but it's definitely missing the point.
You're ignoring the traffic jam of those loading into it.
I'm also confused on how the safety and space required to slow a vehicle moving at 150mph would be accounted for in a single track scenario, all while under some of the most complex infrastructure in the country ( Chicago, Los Angeles)
They're accepting "all cars", but only those capable of autonomous driving. Whether they're Teslas or not is a different matter. And I'm only ignoring that to the extent that it's a solvable problem - if autonomous vehicles trust each other "enough" (will probably require car-to-car communication, though), there'll be no reason to slow down.
Individualized modes of transport in cities cannot account for the changes needed to be made to properly address climate change by the 2030 deadline. Cities absolutely have to reconsider their zoning systems so folks can live close to where they work and where they shop and build free mass public transport projects instead of vanity projects like this. From what I understand the tunnel boring industry hasn't exactly innovated all that much in awhile so if any advancements actually come from this method that's great, but until we've cleared the largest hurdles in preventing the collapse of our biosphere any transit projects catered to the rich folks who can afford a tesla already just stand in the way progress.
Not detailed but it's something:
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1075518412200144896?s=19
I could see this making much more sense if control was handled by the track itself, like roller-coaster linear induction motors.
Would remove the autonomous driving requirements from the car, would just need an attachment or sled to levitate.
Also has to be electric to avoid ventilation issues.
I'd really like to see a credible source for this. EVs combined with clean power generation are very low emissions. Transportation is currently the biggest sector for CO2 emissions, with the largest segment being cars. I'm perhaps one of the biggest advocates for dealing with climate change here, and I've never seen anything credible say we can't meet climate targets while still having EVs on the road.
Fucking lol at the quality of this concrete pour, christ.
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/114212/b3514bf6-4a2a-4455-bec8-dfc2d462a79b/image.png
In an interview Musk said it was bumpy and they're still smoothing it out. Seems to me to be something they'll need to improve before this has any chance since I doubt it would hold up to thousands of cars per day in it's current state. But they never said this was the final thing. Just a test hole
Actually no, as someone pointed out, they have special skis for non-autonomous cars which will do the majority of the work. And you're ignoring the part where I said getting on the thing will be a nightmare due to how its set up.
I can't see how anything would go wrong by taking a piece of sophisticated software designed to work in one environment and shove it in another totally alien environment.
like no other manufacturer will support that, let alone handle the liability.
Even then, to run a functional 'train' system there has to be some kind of overarching signal network which requires hundreds of miles of wiring and tons of electronics. If his intent is to actually get to 150 mph he has to have a train control system on par with the japanese bullet trains and he's trying to say he can do all that with cars....
I'm just more puzzled by the fact we're not testing autonomous driving on bus routes. They have specific timing they need to be at each stop, the stops are preplanned and etc.
They're focusing incredibly heavily on cars but there's a lot of electronic pollution involved with the production of EVs and replacing the entire fleet of cars.
One wonders if that's a product of their revolutionary tbm or just poor contractors because another issue with tunneling is you have to be dead on especially if you're trying to link up to another tunnel.
How do you fuck up paving that bad with concrete.
EVs should be part of every plan to deal with climate change but as far as I can tell it's pretty common knowledge that walking, biking, electric bus lines, and proper subway systems will still always beat out EVs on cost, throughput, and energy expenditure per person. Whatever this is, it's not nearly as useful in any of those categories compared to the other transport models. It has to be on them to show the numbers proving that this comes even close to winning out against any of them, and so far what's been shown is a joke.
https://jalopnik.com/what-the-actual-shit-was-that-1831214583
Sorry but even as a bit of a skeptic this post and this article are fucking asinine. Musk isn't pointing at this thing and going "hurr look, the future!" It's a prototype using experimental conversions for the sake of having a working proof of concept together. SpaceX's first experimental rockets couldn't even go transonic, people back then said "THIS IS THE FUTURE????? WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!" and now SpaceX is the most advanced rocketry company on the planet. Because experimental models and proofs of concepts are not representative of the final product. It's a technology testbed to answer two questions: "Can we build a cheaper, faster tunnel? Can we find a way to allow consumer vehicles to use it efficiently?"
The tunnel boring tech they're developing is fast as fuck and dirt cheap. You think a shoddy concrete pour or a dinky gimmicky experimental Tesla conversion represents the extent of the possibilities with improved tunnel tech? Come on, dude.
From what I understand the tunnel boring industry hasn't exactly innovated all that much in awhile so if any advancements actually come from this method that's great
I acknowledged that above. What I'm specifically saying is that cities absolutely should not be fooled into building Musk's vision of this because proper mass transit and rezoning cities to make them walkable are two of the biggest transportation priorities. Absolutely use whatever new tunneling tech comes from this, but use it with a more focused purpose than what Musk is trying to sell.
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