• USA Powerlifting bans all trans women from competing as women
    69 replies, posted
Then thank God for people who still have common sense in society who realize dudes who become chicks shouldn't be allowed to compete in female only sporting events. It's what I would consider the lowest form of cheating.
That would be a good idea, except there arn't a lot of them
The thing is these standards are literally put in place to stop unfair advantages. Thats why its a 'hard subject', they dont want to do it necessarily but would be pressured by the people that its involved with. I'm thinking that stuff like this realistically only effects female power lifters, including transgender female powerlifters ofcourse, and in that case maybe its best to meet the demands of the majority if its something where its a competition its regulated? Its not like say motorsports where it doesnt actually matter if youre female or not, and in that case there wouldnt be any argument at all. The only reason they do this is because theyre pressured to do so if theres ever a transgender athlete who has an unfair advantage. Realistically if transgender athletes competing in powerlifting did not display as much success as they did, I'd imagine theyd be less fussed about including them in the competiion. But imagine if youre a female power lifter, and a transgender female power lifter comes in and dominates the competition, including you. You'd probably think thats a bit unfair, wouldnt you? And this isnt a statement on transgender people, but the individuals themselves; i really do think that some transgender athletes compete knowing they have an advantage. I personally think its not a fair advantage because while not everyone is going to do this, because its good PR to include transgender people in all activities to promote equality, it means that men who transition quite late and maintain a lot of their male physique from their body growing that way have a way of being able to compete under the protection. Again Im not saying that transgender people are known for doing this but, this is competition. If you were a transgirl who wanted to power lift you'd probably use this to your advantage if you could. Again I'm all for equality but I'm also for fair competition and in my personal opinion in this case, if they do what they have to do to keep the competition sanctioned, so be it. I say what happens inside the competition stays inside the competition. So for banning transgender power lifters - I acknowledge this may mean a transgender women who wish to compete in power lifting are effected, which is unfortunate, it doesnt say transgender people cant be anything else theyre not restricted from, or women are not banned from, the gender is not separated. So in that case I dont think it really holds transwomen down and I dont feel like transwomen should feel let down or hurt in this case, or anyone should apart from transgirls that aspired to power lift
I mean this is true too, genetics play too much of a role in sports IMO. Sports would inherently be better and more competitive if genetic variation in these regards were gotten rid of.
I find this completely unsurprising; of course without years and years on HRT, their bodies would still mantsin advantage. There's a world of difference between people who transition young and have been on hormones for years and people who transition old and haven't. This is even more pronounced in cases of trans women who take puberty blockers and transition before puberty, who have literally no differences from cis women other than their genitals.
This is a bit of shit situation really. I don't agree with trans people being barred from anything, but at the same time the fact is that transwomen generally do retain a hell of a lot more muscle mass and stuff after having gone through puberty even with feminizing hormones, so competing against ciswomen athletically is almost always gonna give transgender athletes a massive advantage. I'd like to say I can think of a fair alternative that would allow transwomen to compete alongside ciswomen in strength-based athletics but sadly I can't and can only hope that someone smarter than me can come up with a solution.
You're talking about going to extreme lengths to even the playing field between people who have a competitive advantage due to genetics. This issue has been around for a very long time - where are we supposed to start drawing lines? Height, weight, bone density, muscle mass, hormone levels - The more you try to categorize the field for fair play, the more complex the problem becomes. The number of categories you can divide people in just keeps getting bigger and bigger, rather than reaching a set and agreeable amount that makes competition easier to organize. The issue, and how it's dealt with, is not exclusive to transgender people in sports. I agree, transgender people have an awkward position in the current cisgender categorization of sports (and for just about every other issue in society that we have divided into cis categories) but it's not a "band-aid" solution born of ignorance. I think it's a stretch to assume they're "lazily banning trans people" because as you've outlined, the issue is far deeper than a primary school level understanding of the human body. For the time being, we know that people that have transitioned MtF can retain a huge advantage from going through male puberty, and that it's unfair to have them compete in the same category of women who haven't. Trying to categorize trans people into sports categories is an issue that all levels of sports organizations are struggling with, and this is a completely reasonable approach for a high-level sports organization to take as a first step in trying to understand what works, and what doesn't.
With society starting to accept that gender is more ambiguous than previously thought, I wonder if there's a better way to split comps that isn't male/female. I can't think of anything though.
Yep you're right. But it doesnt reverse a male puberty and growth. That's impossible to do.
If the difference in hormones makes it fair then where are all of the FTMs excelling in mens sports?
HRT actually does reverse several critical aspects of puberty.
The issue in this case for sports is just not everything so to speak.
one big reason esports are superior to physical sports imo also, injuries. tendonitis is bad but it sure aint no concussion
I thought puberty starts before you're allowed to go through hormonal therapy. Or am I misunderstanding something?
Well sex and gender are seperate things and while the gender spectrum isn't as cut and dry as it once was athletics is about measuring as close to raw biological statistcs as possible. So dividing olympics based on (for lack of a better term) what's in thier soul as opposed to what's in thier flesh doesn't quite work. In a way the personality behind an athelete is irrelevant to the athletics themselves, the thing about athletes is we are trying to find the limits a human body can reach and therefore we need to break down just what you can categorise a body into. To go off on a tangent is anyone else curious as to what people can do if they train on performance enhancing substances and take them during an event? If drugs offer such an unfair advantage I rather wanna know just how much.
I feel like transitioning just puts you in a bad spot no matter what when it comes to physical sports. No matter what, you'll be disadvantaged in male sports and advantaged in female sports.
Then we'd have FtM players dominated by MtF instead
honestly idk about this even tho i started the whole hrt stuff at 18 im only 5'2 and im really thin and my upper body is tiny lol so i wonder if id really have any advantage over "real women" lol
So trans women can get split in half, and trans men can dominate female competitions? What a terrible suggestion. How about requiring 5+ years on hormones instead, and then correctly categorize them via weight class?
lol niggers voting me dumb cuz they cant handle da truth that tranners b unlucky
A big part of this is probably that there are significantly fewer women competing in power-lifting than men. (I agree with your point.) Otherwise I would have to wonder about the extent that anatomical differences would play in this. Differences in hip/femur anatomy are not going to change post-hormone-therapy. Certain features such as the average increased Q-angle in genetic females could have practical considerations for strength outcomes, particularly in the squat/deadlift. The hormone therapy issue is a reasonable thing to debate with recent literature having shown that myonuclear changes persist after the cessation of anabolic steroids. Admission of use of any exogenous anabolic hormone should be grounds for suspension. Granted - we all know that steroid use is essentially ubiquitous within the sport, which makes it a bit less sincere seeming of an issue?
I doubt anyone will likely read up to this point(it's page 2 already), but here's the main problem: https://www.usapowerlifting.com/transgender-participation-policy/ We have several powerlifting federations that athletes participate in. The International Powerlifting Federation(IPF) has created a category for transgenders to participate in, whereas the USPA has outright excluded their participation(but not banned -- there's a very good chance that trans leagues will still be added later). The problem currently is that transgenders are being actively excluded when others have set a good example of how to include them. That's why the USPA is being stupid.
Ive been on HRT for 4 years my t levels are less then 10ng/dL (less than a ciswoman would have) and Im still quite strong. But the thing is, Ive always been abnormally strong. I have never participated in sports or gone to the gym. I have always sat on my ass all day while eating unhealthy food. Yet, as I said Im abnormally strong for my level of daily activity (strong enough that Im significantly stronger than a lot of cismen who do actually go to the gym). Im not saying any this to show off, however, it does bring up a rather important point. Some people have a significant genetic advantage for strength, enough that with little effort they are stronger than people who put in a lot of effort. If we are banning transwomen for having an advantage why are we not also banning people with a significant genetic advantage? Should women with disorders that result in abnormally high testosterone production also be banned? The fact of the matter is that sports have never been an even playing field. Some people have a significant advantsge ober their peers for no reason other than genetics. If we are banning transwomen for their advantage we should also ban people with genetic advantages, or women with disorders that result in high testosterone production during puberty. The fact that neither of those two groups are banned indicates that this ban is likely motivated by thinly veiled transphobia. If you need more proof of this look at some of the replies in this very thread. A lot of people dont consider transwomen to be real women, its not too big if a stretch to think that transphobia played a role in this decision.
Because you can't go and get a "genetic advantage" at a doctors office, and if you could it would be classed under illegal doping before someone could actually do it.
Short article that goes over a good study on the effects of HRT: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/do-transgender-athletes-have-an-unfair-advantage-at-the-olympics/2016/08/05/08169676-5b50-11e6-9aee-8075993d73a2_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.41ebd66ff554 This charged debate is timely because of a landmark rule change instituted by the International Olympic Committee this year. In Rio, transgender men (female-to-male athletes) will be allowed to compete without any restrictions (based on the sexist assumption, I suppose, that trans men could never dominate their sports). Trans women, meanwhile, are no longer required to undergo gender-reassignment surgery to compete in female divisions, and the previously mandated two-year wait after transitioning has been jettisoned. To compete, a trans woman athlete is required only to declare her gender as “female” and have testosterone levels comparable to or below those of cisgender women. (Cisgender refers to folks whose biological sex matches their gender identity, the opposite of transgender.) These long-awaited changes are a big step forward in creating an equitable playing field — and they bring the IOC in line with the NCAA, which invoked a similar policy for college athletes. But here’s why we all had it wrong: The first-ever study of transgender athletes showed that the hormone therapy that facilitates male-to-female transition does more than just suppress testosterone. Published last year in the Journal of Sporting Cultures and Identities, the study showed that as testosterone levels approach female norms, trans women experience a decrease in muscle mass, bone density and other physical characteristics. “Together these changes lead to a loss of speed, strength and endurance — all key components of athleticism,” the study’s author, Joanna Harper, wrote in The Washington Post. Harper, who is chief medical physicist at Oregon’s Providence Portland Medical Center, a trans athlete and a participant in the IOC meeting that overhauled the trans guidelines, explained to me that “it’s not the anatomy that matters, it’s the hormones.” After a year of hormone therapy, for example, female trans distance runners completely lose their speed advantage over cisgender women.
You cant get male puberty at a doctors office either so I completely fail yo see your point.
That's already been established; the issue is that it doesn't happen over night at all. It can take upwards of years for things to equalize.
Gotta love the usual suspects thinking that hard facts are dumb
It's just boring at this point. The same old stale takes every time. If you're gonna have stupid opinions, at least make them fun.
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