• Denuvo 5.6 (used in Metro Exodus) got cracked in 5 days
    187 replies, posted
that doesn't un-pay them or change the fact that they'll never get a bonus due to the game doing well It also doesn't change the fact that... they... can... still lose their job even if its the other way around, so uhhh, whats the point? and activation has shown that it doesn't even matter if a company is doing well, layoffs can and will happen regardless
not just doing well but record year
i'm not trying to make an argument or nothing i just made a comment, don't read so deep into it.
Arguably the ideal is just that, art existing out in the world and people interpreting and enjoying them at their own leisure, on their own terms. The reason we accept otherwise is because it motivates and funds the creation of those works, as each unique work has a monopoly on the kind of experience it's going to create. It's a kind of cultural goal to maximize variety and quality. People are right to feel entitled to experience art on their own terms when they're already funding it's creation. If they're asked to pay and still not be able to actually enjoy it, that monopoly means they can't get it anywhere else, they might as well pirate it to at least get some terms back. The thing that separates making a sandwich and making art is that art is reproducible and can be enjoyed many times over, it's more than the sub of labor put in. It makes sense that people are not inherently entitled to a sandwich you make, but that they would be to see the painting simply because it costs nothing and does no damage to look once it's made. The alternative understanding, where art is literally just something that exists to turn a profit and that anyone who expects to enjoy it on reasonable terms is "entitled" is kind of just a surface level backwards interpretation from economics. Furthermore, it's obvious in modern times that copyright has gone many times too far and suppresses massive amounts of derivative creations, more than it facilitates by a long shot. Basically, creators are too entitled in this setup, they're entitled to their works being protected from derivative works for their entire lifetime plus, it's a rediculous state of affairs that only exists to prop up corporate money machines rather than support artists. The entitlement of artists should stop when there's enough to sustain the labor involved and shouldn't include limitations that prevent derivation and evolution of that art, in some sense a setup where art is only worth it's own base value and nobody else is allowed to expand on it means even if we do allow the creation of that art through copyright, that art is missing the worth that would have come from improved derivative works had it emerged unprotected. Today's entitlement of artists is usually traded to corporate and then it's corporate who preaches about "wah entitled gaymers" meanwhile the actual artists involved barely getting any of that money and only a small percentage is reinvested into providing better quality or variety of art.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/metro-exodus/metro-exodus-sales
I'm always real confused by those UK physical sales numbers being cited
I think you need to reread the post you're replying to because they're talking about someone who has tried to buy the game legitimately but Epic's shitty store has rejected their purchase for unknown reasons every time.
Publishers being crappy does not entitle you to play their game for free. I only think piracy is justified if a product is IMPOSSIBLE to get.
You would think that developers would have noticed the alternative methods of anti-piracy; for example Crysis Warhead , you can only shoot chickens that do no damage to the enemies meaning you won't get anywhere and you are at a standstill with no progression. I could have sworn gmod had a similar kind of thing (not really anti piracy just more as a point and laugh kind thing considering people actually tried to get help for it). Or mirrors edge in which causes you to slow down on big jumps making it practically impossible to proceed. Just goes to show you how stubborn the people in charge of DRM are. I chuckle every time i read about these incidents. Yeah i know they aren't meant to last forever but i generally feel as if it's practically a waste of time, resources and most importantly money when you have so much more creative and effective methods out there. Hell even Artur Maksara a developer of shadow warriors 2 even said something like "In our imperfect world, the best anti-pirate protection is when the games are good, highly polished, easily accessible and inexpensive". So for the most part if some developers are coming out and saying this I mean you should probably change your approach if not get rid of these god awful methods once and for all. What i would love to know is how much money was pissed away developing this thing. I am generally curious because I really wonder if it is really worth the money spent just for a few days of protection.
They can still buy a physical copy, though?
Well it doesn't help that the ones who make decisions regarding DRM tend to be business oriented and not community oriented. They're publishers and executives who are entirely focused on income and not a quality product. So they're completely out of touch and legitimately don't understand (nor care to) why their decisions don't go over better, even when their decisions actually frequently negatively impact their own goals.
To everyone that is mentioning stuff like "morals" and "entitled" and stuff: Wasn't "bit shit of DeepSilver" to remove the game from Steam 2 weeks before launch after they used it as a marketing platform? Where were the Epic Games "morals" when they decided that any kind of customer feedback is toxic? Was the Metro author "entitled" to ask the fans to not betray the saga? Is "justificated" that the only way to ask support on the Epic Store is a single email address? I don't get why I need to defend Epic Games and DeepSilver like they are poor puppies. If they are anti-consumer, then don't ask consumers to be kind with you.
Ah I see point taken; however even that small amount could of gone elsewhere granted ease of installation and it being cheap but why not initiate a different method? I am aware of time constraints but I couldn't imagine it taking that much longer in that sense to have something that could literally block progression or overall be absolutely annoying to the point of just buying it to beat the game. Yeah this had crossed my mind also. Making a business decision sometimes takes big risks so for it to pay off is one thing which is where i wonder if the amount of time/money spent on developing these systems actually crunch out numbers well if not decently above what they spent on such a tool. If not it's amazing how they can stick to their decision which i will admit is somewhat admirable if it wasn't such nuisance on our end as the paying consumer. Well if it's any consolation quite a few developers took their own way of handling it. Which is funny to hear and see it in action.
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/1303/5eec7042-7c8d-4de4-a18f-e9bf383f3726/firefox_2019-02-21_06-56-54.png https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/1303/6838f76e-a1af-4867-9abf-fc3127d3f4ca/firefox_2019-02-21_06-57-51.png https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/1303/206bd18d-e329-4421-9189-2f9010fb8e8c/firefox_2019-02-21_06-57-36.png And before you say "b-but just buy it on console" that's only a bandaid fix for a shit store. and what's even the point of building a gaming pc if shit like this becomes the standard where "lol guess you'll just have to buy it from this one store and if they fuck up then lol sorry not sorry"
Why is any of this relevant at all? No amount of shit actions by a publisher is going to make it A-OK for you to pirate a game. We're not defending them, we're saying you're not entitled to play the game for free. Stuff like this is just wrong: Piracy, even if not harmful, is still using something that you haven't paid for. I'm not going to pretend that I haven't pirated, but I'm not going to try and justify it either. It's not suddenly okay because I disagree with a publisher's conduct. "Entitlement" is valid in this context because people try to find justification for piracy. Let me rephrase my argument: a publisher being shit doesn't entitle you to download the game for free.
What's even the fucking point on slapping anti-piracy bloat on your game if you're going to make it exclusive to a store that doesn't work in countries where game piracy is most common place.
That and Denuvo has a negligible impact on performance when it's not inplemented in a rush by massive incompetents. DOOM 2016 showed us this after they took it out. There's some performance hit, sure. But it's not consistent or large enough to be a problem when implemented right. 5 days is still a decent amount of protection for a game bring purposefully targeted by crackers (the Epic store shit just painted a massive target on them after all). Considering that almost all previous anti-tamper solutions barely lasted hours before Denuvo rocked up.
Where it's sold isn't relevant. A cracking group could just buy the game in the US, copy the files, crack it, and release it in said countries. The only relevancy is that not selling in those countries will likely lead to more piracy, since now their only option is to get the pirated copy or use a VPN (which isn't typical for a regular user).
Not sure why this is getting dumbs. I've always been the strong believer if you have issues with the game in various ways don't buy it and don't torrent it. Nobody owes you a game & pirating is having your cake and eating it. You're a bit of a twat if you can say "I pirated this game and here's why that's a good thing". No. Admit what you did and be honest with your choices.
Ah i never did stop to think about that, well damn now you have me wanting to sit down and think of an idea that separates the help requests that pertain to the pirated feature leaving support personnel relieved of confusion
I'm willing to reckon that the post is getting rated dumb because 10 people disagree, use 'dumb' as 'disagree', and then other people just pile on dumb ratings because it's the most popular rating on the post. The problem too, is that people probably don't even read the post in its entirety because it's got so many dumbs. When in reality, there's nothing dumb about this post, people just disagree. Ratings can be hella inconsistent on here and I wish people would stop using 'dumb' when they simply disagree. I know I'm not supposed to care about ratings, but I think they sometimes ruin discussion because in actuality - people do care and the "don't care about ratings" shtick is only used when people complain.
I was referring more to the general consensus rather than ratings. It seems a bit strange to dogpile on an opinion like that, one that's pretty valid too.
Well yeah, that's a mystery to me too. I haven't seen anyone provide a proper counter-point, explaining why piracy is justified.
Two reasons: He mentions that "it's not like the epic store is actually less usable than the steam store" that is simply wrong: Linux users can't use the launcher, the store lacks A LOT of features that others store have and, as showed by people like SpaceHippie, sometimes it doen't work properly. Second, he starts the discussion about "pirates needs to feel bad pirating the game". As I showed in my replies, the "morale ground" doesn't even exist by these companies, so I personally think that the "morals" in this case doesn't matter. If we were talking about a game like Hollow Knight, then is understandable that people consider pirating it being awful. Again, this is my personal opinion.
None of this justifies piracy. I also think it's dishonest to reduce piracy to "a direct response to greed". There are definitely pirates who simply pirate so they don't have to pay. Games are still a luxury product, so you're still gaining access to something you don't need but want. Morals aside, that's certainly "having your cake and eating it". And yeah, like explained before, it does impact developers. If everyone would pirate, you can guarantee they're not going to continue work on it.
You're bringing up tons of stuff that's completely irrelevant. I don't believe piracy = lost sales, I just believe piracy can't be justified. Own up to it, that's all we're saying. I do agree that the industry is shit (which is not relevant in the justification of piracy), but I'd like to refute your price point argument: games have been 60 for a long long time, and by all logic they should get more expensive due to inflation.
Same thing can be said about the other side, you don't want to support greedy developers/publishers yet you are utilizing a product they made without giving anything back. So in a way you are stealing from them regardless of their reputation is also in a sense a form of greed. You want to know how i fight against greed? I don't support it in any shape or form. Piracy is a very fickle topic considering there are a few legit reasons as to why you would have to utilize that, but outside of that you really shouldn't it makes you almost as bad as them. So speak by not giving and not taking. This is of course my two cents and feel free to ignore it if you wish I just felt like I needed to point this out.
If this business about piracy being a force against greedy corporations were at all true, there wouldn't be such a healthy scene for pirating indie games which don't exhibit any of these bad practices.
All I'm asking for is for an admission that piracy can't be justified. But you think you're allowed to play a game for free when the publisher does bad things (which is entitlement), so that's not going to happen. If you feel so strongly about shitty publishers, why don't you go pirate the game and snail mail the devs 60 dollars?
I'm dismissing everything you say because it doesn't actually have anything to do with the argument. You bring up all these reasons why piracy happens when nobody is denying that. Yes, the game industry is rotten in some areas. Piracy won't fix that though. Yeah, piracy is always going to exist. But let's not spin it into something that is okay to do when you disagree with a publisher.
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