Earth is round, so why have the flat-out wrong become so lively?
49 replies, posted
Laughing at anyone whose into irrational ideas never works, they believe their answers are rational as do we; I think many of us fool ourselves into believing that our ideas, our morals and our ethical standards are based on rational and evidenced forms of information.
This is flatly false, I'm going to use the word Faith but I do not mean explicitly faith in a higher power such as religion. All ethical/moral/idealistic systems of thought, self governance and personality are based on a faith of yourself and the faith in the foundation ideas that form up what you believe in. You have faith that the data you use for your systems of morals/ethics will stand the test of time and are ultimately correct. You have faith that in some way you're right. You can never known whether you're 100% right because our own subjective views means answers differ from person to person.
That's why many of you are saying how flabberghasted about how their own experiments go against your ideas, but shockingly enough, a lot of studies are performed this way. The conclusion is the hypothesis and researchers will then find out if that conclusion is true and incredibly regularly, you'll see novice/intermediary papers and research being published that twists and manipulates data. There's a reason we have a replication crisis right now. In that face, in the face of just how vapid and demonstrably unchecked our research magazines are(see: the first and second science wars), its quite easy for someone who may have the intelligence to understand that you should question much of what you hear and then take it too far.
What you're seeing when they discount their own experiments is the correct analysis that they're fishing for their answer in their own conclusion but they don't realize it fully and so they repeat different experiments to prove it. Its a twisted and perverted idea of Science that can only really become a thing if you're told that you are your own main character repeatidly. Our media does that constantly, hell even the memes have this kind of joke in it, the NPC meme for example. We, as a society, due to social media and this conditioning that we all have an important voice or idea to contribute to society have created a toxic feedback loop which perpetuates what is essentially that one Skinner line from the Simpons, "Am I out of touch? No its the kids who are out of touch."
In that kind of environment, its easy to scoff and mock someone whose paranoid that the Earth is flat but what you don't realize is that yourself have those kinds of unwavering beliefs. If you didn't, you'd have to re-invent your moral and ethical system every second, of every minute, of every hour, of every day, of every month, of every year of every decade and etc repeatedly because the nuanced changes of our world are so specific. You'd go insane trying.
You're acting like changing your opinions on things constantly based on new information is some kind of herculean, impossible task. It isn't. I can't help but feel like you're projecting a little bit. I don't have a single belief that I feel strongly about that isn't backed up by evidence and can't be changed by evidence.
Being a flat earther is basically the exact opposite of living an ignorant life - suddenly you """"""""""""know"""""""""""" that all the world governments, every scientist and high school teacher is in on a grand conspiracy to lie about the shape of the Earth. And what else might they be lying about?
And I feel like you're missing the point because, no you don't, you change opinions when you feel that you've hit a significant threshold of believability. This isn't projection; this is how our brains process information, there are replicable studies that show that people have inherent biases to information which makes changing opinions harder.
They say that because they don't want to spout the more insane sounding parts of the conspiracy so that people just focus on the "'science"" part until they believe it, then only after that do you begin talking about the other, crazier shit
Couldn't have said it better myself. It's too easy to just call someone stupid for believing in something you don't believe in, but everyone is subject to being misinformed or just born into a social context that imprints certain beliefs before they can really stand back and parse out ALL the possible data that's presented before them. For most people who aren't scientists or astronauts, it takes about as much faith to believe the earth is round (because what are you gonna do, go up to space and see for yourself?) as it does to believe it's flat.
you can see the curvature of the earth from pretty regular situations, for example one can see it from this not particularly tall building overseeing the ocean
I mean of course and that's often the first thing I'd point to as far as visual evidence goes, but I can see how someone could chalk it up to being an atmospheric optical illusion or something, like the way mirages work.
That would be very difficult.
Having been to the place in question I could definitely see the curvature of the earth.
You're not excused from that either, we all have our biases and standards that are harder to move than others.
Otherwise you'd be chugging wine and chocolate while celebrating the lizard people one week and then the next shunning both while lamenting that lizards are in control.
We all have valves and roadblocks that require turning and clearing for an idea that opposes our preconcieved notions rather than the information, even if fallacious, that agrees with it.
Conspiracy theorists are this to the logical extreme; its easy to mock or dismiss them but that only helps push them deeper inside.
How have I been to Astoria like half a dozen times and never even known about that thing? That's a fairly neat building.
... How? You can literally see the curvature of the Earth from sea level if you're on the coast.
Their books says that earth is 6000 years old. They are at odds with science from the start
That's why you gotta go to Lake Pontchartrain
You have to understand that for someone of a particular non-secular belief system, science and religion have very different values. While science offers rational explanations for certain questions, religion offers something science just cannot and would not offer: Spiritual assurance and definitive ethical/moral guidance. Religion will almost always take priority because it offers eternal salvation in some form, in a sense there's more spiritual "backing" behind an established system of faith because faith requires steadfast belief in spite of presented facts that contradict it, because faith exists on a bigger picture than pure reason and conjecture.
Like imagine you're a Linux diehard, and you know all the reasons that Windows or Mac might be better or worse operating systems on the whole, but because you BELIEVE in Linux's mission of free software and open source development, you'll always stick by Linux despite its flaws. That's sort of what faith/religion is like for the devout.
Pretty sure it's so slight it borders on placebo on very low altitudes. I grew up by the coast, and I certainly can't see it.
Just to be clear. We're talking about seeing a curved horizon line, right?
It is the same reason you wouldn't want a child to believe in Santa well into their adult lives. It encourages magical thinking to the detriment of the rational, level-headed understanding of the world that forms the foundation for healthy socialization, and whose absence is a gateway to more irrational ideologies like antivax or the semetic conspiracy, things that kill people. It is only natural to be skeptical, but you can't function healthily in society if you actively reject fact.
Now, for the real reason I led my post with an analogy about Santa Claus:
All you need to show that it's not a placebo is taking something like a ruler or other straight-edged object with you. Line it up so both ends of it are lined up with the horizon and you'll be able to clearly see part of the ocean (or land if you're doing it somewhere like the Midwest) above the middle of it.
I don't live on the coast myself, it's like two hours away by car, but I've been to the ocean numerous times and in my opinion it's pretty easy to see the curve. It is rather slight but not slight enough that it should be impossible to see at all. Someone explicitly looking for it should be able to find it with little trouble.
Ehh, from what I can find, it doesn't sound like this is actually possible:
Depends on what you mean by ‘see the curvature of the Earth’, what people usually mean by this is actually a misnomer, they are actually seeing their horizon curve around them and not the curvature of the Earth. Of course, your horizon is a product of the curvature of the Earth, but it's technically an indirect observation.
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