Jordan Peterson’s Book Pulled from New Zealand Shelves Following Mosque Shooting - Sensationalist Headlines

Mate that's like 95% of Petersons' audience. A bunch of transphobic manchildren who needed some washed up psychology professor to remind them to clean their rooms.

It's too damn easy to pick out the worst from one side and paint the entire side like that. We need less of that, and more love and compassion.

God forbid if you see the top posts in his subreddit. Its verbatim in what the Alt-right spout constantly.

Thinking the worst of some group is easy, especially when you take the worst examples of that group. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and challenge their ideas.

Yet...a vast majority of his ideas are pseudoscience, bullshit, and made up. And that entire subreddit is filled with alt-righters. It ain't "One thing that's painting them bad". No they fucking dumped the bucket of red paint all over the canvas.

I don't think it's the majority. I don't think it's the entire subreddit. I don't think they're all alt-right. A friend recommended his stuff (one of the lecture series, the book and some interviews). I gained some perspectives. I don't think I turned alt-right or pseudo-scientific, nor do I think he is an evil dude. I don't think I'm the only one but I don't know.

So you're ok with him victim blaming rape victims? And you're ok with him spouting pseudoscience. Nice life choice mate.

I didn't know he did? Link? I don't agree with that, but I would be careful to believe you. I mean, anything that isn't mathematics should be taken with a grain of salt. That was unnecessary. I have a good life and I am very grateful for it.

It's already been posted. But go ahead and read Zuk's post on the previous page. He has video recordings of him saying this. And there's a picture of him standing with a man with a shirt with full on Islamophobia rhetoric plastered all over it.

The "free market of ideas" is a fucking myth and has only helped to perpetuate shitty ideologies. Particularly with the advent of the Internet. Challenging their ideas is unlikely to shift Petersons' more hardcore fans. They're straight up willing to ignore the fact he makes shit up as he goes along after all. It might convince people outside of the argument he's a fucking loon though. It sure as shit did for me. Going from having no horse in this race to "holy shit this guy is literally fucking nuts" because I read his views without his flowery wording filtering the meaning into total ambiguity.

I don't know how to deal with this. Cognitive dissonance, I guess. Why can't I just assume that he is a good dude? I want to believe that this can be resolved without leaving that ideal.

the thing about the free market of ideas is that a minority of very rich people can spend a lot of money to spread their terrible ideas. Look at PragerU. The biggest funder that that youtube channel has is a pair of oil billionaires You'd be an absolute fool that they haven't muddied the waters with this funding https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/112373/2cdc5dbb-623a-4adb-b3d3-6cb3cc78a22c/maxresdefault.jpg

You do realize the reason why we're against Jordan peterson is cause we've listened to him. We've heard him speak, we've heard him talk and explain. And we've come to the conclusion he's a liar. Given the vast amount of evidence that shows him lying about information, science, spouting pseudoscience, etc.

yeah i guess im all wrong reevaluation bois im just a sucker for people that tell me i matter

Your life has value and you have the equal right and equal responsibility to participate and construct today's society in a harmonious way. You deserve to be loved but it is also up to you to conduct yourself in a lovable way -- note that deserving to be loved is not the same as deserving any specific person's love, especially if they aren't interested. You should conduct yourself with moral integrity and self-respect, and take reasonable efforts to look after your appearance and grooming habits, because that is the face you present to the world. Concern yourself with being an interesting person with a variety of interests and hobbies, and strive to be able to hold conversations about several different topics that you know at least something about, but have the humility to admit when you don't know something instead of bullshitting yourself into the deep end. You should believe in yourself, because if you don't nobody else will. Wow, look at that, I didn't even need to bring up lobsters.

Regardless of whether it not you like Peterson, his book is very good The fact that we're now justifying banning self-care books and information is horrifying

Sorry if I missed it, but who's justifying the ban?

Pretty much most of this thread no? Just scroll down page one and look at all of the agrees everyone is getting in support of this and how many boxes people get who have a different opinion Or am I not understanding your question

where is the book banned? does a single private bookstore chain pulling trash reactionary politics disguised as self help from it's shelves for PR reasons constitute a ban now?

People are talking about why they dislike Jordan Peterson, nobody has actually mentioned the book being banned. For my part, I don't think that they should have pulled it but you also cannot stop them, because it isn't actually a ban. It is a bookstore chain refusing to carry it, which they are well within their rights to do. Just like that Christian Baker in the US who was able to refuse to provide a wedding cake for a gay couple, as distasteful as that is.

Fair play, it's not an outright ban like I said. But it is apparently one of NZ's biggest sources of books/information and I don't think we should be applauding book sources of this magnitude to decide what should or shouldn't be offered to the public as a reactionary response to the shooting ... Also have you actually read the book before? Did you completely and honestly come to the conclusion after finishing it in its entirety that it's all "trash reactionary politics" and not self care at all?

Do you think everyone who is criticizing Peterson thinks his book should be pulled from this one store?

I have read more than I need to to come to that conclusion, along with reading a decent amount of Maps of Meaning, and being very familiar with the work Jordan Peterson reckons he references and builds upon. I think of myself as absolutely validated in saying it's faux-profound reactionary trash disguised as self help, and that the intellectual framework he builds from is quite frankly, complete bullshit. Of course it's littered with pithy truisms that boil down to 'don't do something you may later regret' or some other such platitude but I fail to see how that's what sets it apart from any other book in the self help aisle. It doesn't, what sets it apart is the bullshit trojan horse that comes with it.

I had to write this one out a few times and think about it. I don't know and I think it's an interesting question There's being against the stores decision to stop the sales and there's supporting the idea that it's free to sell whatever it likes as an independent business. Then there are the people who are happy and consider it good that this specific individual's particular book is being pulled from their stock For these people, I'm wondering whether it's really acceptable to let their personal beliefs on what kind of person Jordan Peterson is decide whether or not his completely unrelated self care book be pulled off shelves as a knee jerk response to a mosque shooting be okay You have either completely read the book or you haven't And if you haven't, you don't get to say the book you haven't read is all "trash reactionary politics"

Most of his critics agree that his self-help advice, in a vacuum, is really good, go and solve the problems you can solve, believe in yourself, be conscious of your own life and how to improve it. The problem is that he doesn't really separate these things from his politics, which is perfectly exemplified in his PragerU video: it starts with a pretense of being apolitical, "you can't change other people, but you can improve your own relationship with life! set your house in order! your future is bright if you take control!" and that's very, very compelling. But it segues into "by the way political activism doesn't work because you can't change other people, shut up about changing the world your efforts are useless" and it's like what the fuck? When did this straight-up dystopian propaganda get in here? I wish I knew someone who has the good bits of his message without its pitfalls, but idk anyone like that - maybe it's for the best, because these guys who promise you the world always turn out to have shady stuff beneath the surface - and more importantly, I don't want people to move from one guru to another, I want people to think for themselves as much as possible. Consume whatever you will, just please be conscious about it.

And what if I'd read 95% of it? What if I decided the last chapter wasn't worth my time after a skim read revealed it to be more of the same? What if I missed a couple pages in the middle? Do I need to have watched his entire lecture series too? There's always an extra bit isn't there. There is always that extra revealing context that I somehow didn't engage with that reveals what he actually meant when he said X Y or Z, that little footnote that reveals that all the 12 rules weren't just banal tripe I'd expect to see in my GP's waiting room. If it's easier for you to write off everything I said because you reckon you found a gotcha, rather than discuss it in good faith then be my guest. I'd guess you didn't come in here open to having your mind changed on the matter.

You're arguing semantics now to save face. It's clear you haven't read the book but have gone and made a sweeping judgment on it anyway based on your own personal beliefs on him. This isn't a *gotcha* to duck out of a discussion - there was no big discussion with you to begin with You gave a snarky response on how it wasn't a ban but rather just a major book store pulling it off which I said is fair - cased closed Then you got carried away and started speaking about the book you haven't read. Which should be the point of the thread and NOT what you think you know about him whether right or wrong

yes doctor, psychoanalyse me. daddy taught you well. you're crazy my man. I shall reiterate. I have read the overwhelming majority of 12 rules, a decent amount of the thoroughly confusing MoM, watched probably far too many of hours of his videos, and even read a few of his peer reviewed papers. but okay.

Nah it's exactly what this is. I really try to believe, but reality proves time and time again there's just no arguing with JP fans like you If you criticize him you don't know him. If you know him, well I don't believe you! Crumpets could do a live reading of 12 rules every single day for the next month, you'd likely say he was misinterpreting Peterson It's like you can't accept that some people disagree with the guy, no, they must be uninformed. Condescension at its best

Yeah, but you obviously weren't reading it right. Because you don't agree that JP is the last sane man who has identified what is wrong with our society! /s