"Melee is literally cancer" - Crab thrown at Hungrybox following tournament win
86 replies, posted
Even when complaining, are people giving the wikis material for trivia references.
It's not like normal sports don't have their own variety of weird shit.
Does that include the 6 year olds who just love playing Nintendo?
I just know the whole "Glitchy controller" bit, and that's enough for me to say "I'm out!"
Luckily Nintendo made tens of millions of Wiis that the game can be played on
with the game able to be played without a disc on said Wiis with no change in gameplay whatsoever
with the vast majority of current weeklies and tournaments running mods to no longer need the broken controllers for extremely minor techs.
The real threat to hosting Melee is the dwindling demand for CRTs and the lack of players entering the scene thanks to a extremely small minority of players being toxic being percieved as the entire community. The fact people have the opinion of
is a wonderful example of this. I admit I am extremely biased as a member of the Melee community and only being able to provide ancedotal evidence, but at least from my experience in the South East of Britain everyone I've met have been lovely functional members of society. The worst its been is seeing people being babies on Discord when Melee was removed from EVO.
Wiis and digital backups are a thing, and nintendo still produces gamecube controllers.
I know we're all pissing on the Melee players here but can somebody link that picture of that Brawl (I think) club with the most unfun rules in existence, one of which was playing rock paper scissors for the final smash ball?
I love it when TOs ban gimping. Just admit you're bad offstage, Jesus.
Whenever I hear something from a Melee tournament it always reminds me of that Kermit poster from /v/
Melee locals, much like a lot of FGC locals are probably fine tbh. There's assholes at some I'm sure, but compared to the lunatics who obsess over Melee at EVO and other tourney they're positively well behaved. I've never really come across stories from people at big events who enjoyed watching Melee brackets go down because it's just the same 3 characters or so doing the same tech.
The Kermit poster does have a point though. When it's the same people over and over again with the same characters over and over again, it gets stale really fast. It's why the Fox vs. Falco Final Destination thing is a meme, and why so many people I know tune out when a top 8 is mostly Foxes and Falcos.
Melee just has an old guard that have stayed dominant for so long. It's become sort of predictable at this point, and that doesn't help it to be spectator friendly in the long run, because if you've seen some matches of Armada vs. Mango, or Leffen vs. Hbox, or whatever, you've almost seen them all at this point.
The only notable thing I ever remember seeing with Melee since its return to EVO and the main FGC circuit was Amsa coming in with a Yoshi to upset a fair amount of the bracket. It was something fresh and different, and I haven't seen anything like that since.
Other games in the FGC certainly have their top players that more often than not end up in top 8s, but their games are still being found out as well as being constantly changed. There's potential for upsets, excitement, and hype to happen because of that. Hell, go watch Tekken 7 if you want something that's somehow always fresh. I don't recall Melee having a player come all the way from Pakistan and working his way from the bottom up to become EVO Japan champion at his first ever EVO outing. It's stories and moments like that that keep me interested in watching the FGC, not the same 5 people winning all the tourneys all the time.
At least with how new Ultimate is, there's still some excitement. Hell, most of the champions I've seen are people I've never heard of, and that's fucking great.
We must fight to free the crabs!
The melee meta IS still evolving though, despite what the guy in the picture believes. The fact that you used falco in your example kinda proves the point, falco is more off-meta right now than he has ever been (from what i know, i dont really follow the scene too much).
Yes and no. It's more-or-less that a large amount of Falco players just end up using Fox because even if he plays differently, his skillset is both superior and carries over. Melee has more plasticity due to more flexible movement, but ultimately pales in comparison to the dynamic of a constantly-evolving meta via balance patches, which ironically the Melee scene are deathly afraid of existing. I feel like no video demonstrates the rigidity of post-2008 Melee's metagame like the "ELO" rankings that are used to establish player strength shown here:
Note that the time spent is in the top 10, not overall. This really paints how ridiculously the game is gatekept by age. Want a different one?
This is the top 10 as of June 2018, according to the video. Note that the stats for years playing the game are all going to be one year higher as of this year for everyone besides Armada because he was the only one that retired in 2018, though Plup also gave up this year. Also note that this doesn't include any additional early years played only at locals that weren't logged even earlier by the ssbwiki:
1) Armada. Time spent in top 10: 4.4 years. Years playing the game: 11 (2007)
2) Hungrybox. Time spent in top 10: 9 years. Years playing the game: 11 (2007)
3) Leffen. Time spent in top 10: 4.4 years. Years playing the game: 8 (2010)
4) Plup. Time spent in top 10: 3 years. Years playing the game: 9 (2009)
5) Mango. Time spent in top 10: 10.6 years. Years playing the game: 11 (2007)
6) Axe. Time spent in top 10: 4.6 years. Years playing the game: 9 (2009)
7) Mew2King. Time spent in top 10: 12.2 years. Years playing the game: 13 (2005)
8) Zain. Time spent in top 10: 3 months. Years playing the game: 4 (2014)
9) aMSa. Time spent in top 10: 2 years. Years playing the game: 5 (2013)
10) Wizzrobe. Time spent in top 10: 1.6 years. Years playing the game: 5 (2013)
Of those, all of the top 10 except one had been ranked in the top 10 for at least one-and-a-half years. Ready for it to get even more damning? Zain and Wizzrobe are still considered new blood, despite now currently having over 5 years of experience as of 2019, and 4 of that top 10 have not won a national because the other 6 quite literally win everything.
So what happened when Armada retired, you may ask? Did it wildly shake up the rankings? Nope. It just let Hungrybox solidify how much better he is than anyone else without any comparable peers and let SFAT, another person that has now been playing for 10 years (2009), get back into the top 10 after being in it previously over a year, too. He's never won a national, either.
I'm not faulting you on it since there have been some changes to the gameplay over that timespan, so don't think I'm just trying to curbstomp the idea of it having an evolving metagame, but this idea that the game is dynamic and healthy in terms of it's evolution and that new blood is constantly coming in to compete is legitimately one of the most infuriating things about having observed the scene. They can enjoy the game all they want, they still have a massive problem of enticing new players that can actually come close to putting the veterans in their place, which might simply just not happen without the default of those veterans just quitting.
I'll admit there's some pretty loud, toxic people in the melee community, particularly on the internet, but I don't really think that justifies getting super opinionated over something that you don't actually know anything about. People here are pretty clearly just looking to talk trash, and don't care if they end up making bad faith arguments in the process. It's not a good look.
My post wasn't talking about the players though? Another example is that puff being the #1 character has been controversial until fairly recently. Marth has also recenlty been given more credit. And maybe this is just me being old or some shit but players consistently implementing shield dropping into their play might be a recent thing too (not sure about this one it might be old as shit cant remember)
i absolutely know what im talking about, my dude, i dedicated my entire teenage years to melee, i played in local tournaments, ive spent months labbing with fox and trying to get everything just right
i wouldnt hate melee and its community so much if i didnt know what i was talking about
melee players complaining about not being at evo meanwhile melty is holding tournaments in bathrooms and in the literal street
I mean you could get off your high horse and actually refute specific points people made here. Though I guess it's easier to pretend to hold the moral high ground.
EVO shit like side tournaments hosted in hotel bathrooms or outside in some guy’s car will never not be the funniest shit in the world
If you're going to post something like that, you're already too personally invested to have a sensible conversation about the subject. People here like to debate stuff like that, but honestly the idea of discussion as this angry contest is fucking toxic and I'm pretty done with that being a part of my life.
That's on top of the fact that I'm really not interested in reading page after page of post-hoc rationalizations for a sentiment that none of you even agree with anyway. None of you care about exploits in competitive games, and I would respect you a lot more if you'd just admit that outright before you go back to circlejerking about how obnoxious meleebros are, but I know how these things go and I know none of you are going to do that.
So yeah, have fun here in the anti-melee echochamber.
"i don't want to argue because it's ''toxic'' and everyone but me has no idea what they're talking about"
for someone trying to avoid toxicity and asking people not to argue in bad faith, you sure are quick to threadshit and dip and then drop some useless ad hominem on your way out!
take a look in the mirror bud
you added something to my post that wasn't there because you needed a reason to be mad.
there's no way to give this kind of criticism in this kind of situation without people getting mad. I just hope you guys will give it some thought when you've calmed down.
this is all I'm here to ask of you.
You're projecting hardcore, dude. I don't even play smash bro games. I just really hate posters that act self-righteous just because they want to feel superior to other people. I called you out and now that you're put on the spot you still can't refute any claims that people in this thread have made. You are pretty clearly just looking to talk trash, and don't care if you end up making bad faith arguments in the process. It's really not a good look.
i know you're banned but i really can't resist
"added something to my post that wasn't there"
you're right, i did, because i went back and read your earlier posts and you say it pretty clearly here in this one
"I don't think that justifies getting opinionated over something that you don't actually know anything about."
as for refuting your actual argument about exploits: of fucking course people don't like exploits in competitive games. look at csgo and its rules about pixel peeks and boosting, and things like fnatic's boost on overpass that while technically legal, made people so mad they wanted them thrown out of the tournament and their winnings returned. additionally in csgo there are one-way smoke exploits which both tournaments and valve have been working to get rid of and prevent exploitation of in matches for years. in magic the gathering there was a combo deck that abused the game system to be able to get around interaction it really shouldn't have via abuse of the rules surrounding making mana (KCI being able to act at 'faster than split second' speed) and the deck was subsequently banned from the format. in fortnite there have been numerous bugs/exploits that were banned or patched out of tournament games (and even more left in and bitched about). notably more one-way peeks.
melee is the ONLY game (taken semi-seriously, at least) i can think of where exploits and bugs are not seen as... well, exploits and bugs, and are instead seen as these 'competitive boosters' that require technical skill to pull off. that's up to the game's community to decide, and if melee decides they want to have that in their game, i don't really care. i don't care about smash, i don't play smash, i don't watch smash. acting like people don't really care and are arguing in bad faith is just a bad assumption to make, especially since it is FUCKING OBVIOUS that people do care about this. just look at literally any sports controversy to see people caring about 'exploits' (the first one that comes to mind is deflategate).
personally, i just came in here to shitpost about melty blood bathroom tournaments and saw you being incredibly dishonest and borderline flaming everyone else in the thread so i felt like i should respond. anyway, enjoy your timeout, i look forward to your post tomorrow when you get unbanned where you move the goalposts and talk about how you meant something else and everyone in this thread is just acting in 'bad faith' and 'toxic'.
I don't see the point in playing Melee. I'll never be "good" at it, because I'd be starting in fucking 2019.
Ultimate has a fresher, newer community that's learning together, and Ultimate has okay online for people like me with no friends. That makes it much more worth playing to me.
And I don't need a fuckin Wii
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