• Intel reveals yet another massive flaw, recommends disabling HT; AMD users laugh
    45 replies, posted
what the fuck is intel doing
Jesus fucking christ. I can't afford an upgrade yet. can intel just fuck off? I needed to squeeze at least another two years out of my 3770k and losing HT is gonna make that significantly more difficult. The "mistakes" made here are right in "fuck right off" territory and they smell half-way like next level planned-obsolescence IMO. How the fuck else can Intel make anyone buy new intel CPU's if their 7-9 year old i7 is still going strong. better make it not go strong! Jesus fuck. This is scummy as shit, deliberate or not. People have been up Nvidia's ass about falsely assumed gimping of performance and here Intel just gets to "legitimately" claim a free-pass because they "couldn''t foresee" these weaknesses. Jesus Kentucky Christ.
chuckles in Ryzen
My expression of floored disbelief when the creaky, obsolete Pentium D 925 sitting in my living room gathering dust because I'm not currently using it as even a media PC is more secure than the machine I'm using right now, because it's on the NetBurst microarchitecture which is older than some FPers reading this thread. Literally everything Intel's done since the Core 2 line began has been on a foundation of corners cut so sharply anyone could tip the whole house over with a line of even-sandboxed Javascript.
That's because Core 2 was built out of a desire to crush AMD at all costs.
This is, IMO, the result of how Intel's architecture hasn't been redesigned from the ground up since the Pentium Pro, only extended (with the exception of the Pentium 4 branch, which lead nowhere - Core 2 and Core i-whatever followed on from the Pentium M, derived from the Pentium III, derived from the Pentium II, derived from the Pentium Pro). Security wasn't a concern back in 1995 - if you were running code, it was assumed that it was something you'd installed deliberately. Hell, a lot of people were still running DOS, where everything runs at maximum privileges. Javascript wasn't a thing - the web was pure HTML, not even CSS. Flash was just an animation tool, not a web plugin. That world bears little relation to modern security needs. The tradeoffs Intel engineers made back then made complete sense for the world of the late 90s. And I'm sure they did fix up a lot of security vulnerabilities as they encountered them, over the twenty-plus-year journey from the i686 to Skylake. But to design a safe chip these days, you don't just have to be vigilant, you have to be paranoid. Even AMD, with their architecture designed in 2017, hasn't been completely immune to these devious sorts of attacks. But they're proving a hell of a lot safer in general. I think Intel needs, at bare minimum, a pretty hefty overhaul to their uarch. Don't try to eke out another 5-10% performance, just take a generation to make the thing bulletproof. But their design has been showing its age in other aspects, so maybe a full ground-up redesign is called for. That way no decades-outdated assumptions can slip through. Intel's got the money to do it, no problem. It'll take a while, but I would think it's worth it.
ironic who could have guessed that solid products build better reputations???
Dear lord, every processor since 2008, and the recommended fix is disabling hyperthreading? That's disastrous...
Good thing mine doesn't has hyperthreading! Ha ha ha ha!... ha..... .....
Always makes me wonder where AMD stands with all those Intel security holes, like does really only Intel have all those issue or is it just that more people currently dig into Intel processors for vulnerabilities compared to AMD? Makes Ryzen 3 look better and better as my next upgrade but thats also that in my position as 3930K owner a lot of the current upgrades to intels latest are kinda moot or too expensive to go something in a similar category as Sandy Bridge E was.
Hyper-Threading is proprietary so as far as this one is concerned AMD is safe. Others affected all x86 processors as an architecture flaw, but much of that has already been patched with little loss.
Having a 1st gen 2006 Mac Mini x86 is a blessing in meh right now. Wonder if it can run eclipse on mint. I never really gave any consideration to scalability of present-day, user-friendly distro's.
Hyper-threading is just a trademarked brand name for simultaneous multithreading, which Zen does (as well as plenty of others, even non-x86 chips). However, this looks like it relies on implementation details, and is not just a general flaw in SMT, so Ryzen should be safe unless they coincidentally replicated the flaw. The article also notes that Whiskey Lake chips are safe, as are non-Core Intel chips that still have HyperThreading (mostly Atom and the Xeon Phi cards).
I guess my next CPU is going to be AMD. My 4770K I think has quite a bit of life left though before I consider an upgrade of that magnitude.
The lead architect of Zen 1 now works for Intel, so I imagine Intel's offering in five years will most likely have some semblance of a clean start.
I think we often forget that Intel has been on the same core (pun intended) architecture for like 10 YEARS. Hyper-threading as it works today has been a thing for just as long. While the difference between an i7-920 and an i7-9xxx is night and day, bad actors have had a lot of time to come up with hardware level vulnerabilities. AMD has come up with all new architectures twice in the same time, even though bulldozer sucked dongs, and they seemingly were able to mitigate these things at a hardware level. And I assume Intel can't do that without a significant or total overhaul. The Core arch is great, fast as fuck and power efficient, but it's on old foundations. Intel Management Engine is also a huge security concern and I wouldn't be surprised if it was being exploited yesterday and the vulnerabilities don't get discovered for years because they're so secretive about it. Cunts.
I wonder if that will still hold true when all these performance destroying security patches are applied to similar Intel hardware.
I have no doubt in my mind that governments have access to it. Don't forget that AMD has had something similar since 2012 called the Platform Security Processor (PSP). It's an ARM processor with largely the same abilities as the Intel ME. The difference is that it hasn't been around long enough for anyone to know how to do anything to it. Intel ME's issues lie in the fact that it has been largely unchanged for years, hopefully AMD knows better than to treat their PSP the same way.
So hyperthreading, a feature that's been standard by AMD and incel for what, 2 decades now? And Intel wants you to turn it off instead of actually fixing it. A+
Ehh, it's pretty debated how much work Jim Keller did on Zen. He mostly spend his time on the now-dead K12 project, from what we know. A lot of people really suspect Mike Clark, and Mark Papermaster, as the real geniuses behind Zen's execution. Zen even still uses significant design chunks of Bulldozer's front-end.
Welp, time to amp up my paranoia and software level protection as much as I possibly can til I can afford an upgrade away from Intel, several years down the line. I'm beginning to not have a fucking computer left from all these performance-destroying patches. And I don't make enough God damn money to fix it for real. I hate this.
Well I have been thinking to get a new CPU and I guess is time to give AMD an opportunity. Is a Ryzen 5 2600X a good option? I'm replacing a i5-7400.
Well all you need to do to mitigate this is turn off HT. If you’re on an 8th or 9th gen chip, you’re safe. Even the mobile parts supposedly. The the funny part is that the 9th gen desktop parts don’t even have HT.
Yep that kinda happens when arrogance is built into your design document.
You can't go wrong with any Ryzen, but yes that's the best one on the market for the price point right now.
Fuck off Intel. If you really want all those people using Sandy/Ivy/Haswell to upgrade, actually make a worthy replacement, not another 14nm++++++++ refresh with almost no improvement.
tfw every computer you've built for your friends/relatives/business clients have been ryzen-based but you're stuck with an intel build from years ago and can't afford a new build
Yeah, the moment my graphics card goes bad, I'm switching back to AMD. Might even do it sooner if it outlasts my 2 year warranty.
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