Study Finds Men Are Afraid to Mentor Women Amid #MeToo - Sensationalist Headlines

Why would we talk about that here when it’s not the topic? This thread is about a study about fear of ruined lives from false accusations, no doi it’s what everyone’s talking about?

The overwhelming consensus every time this topic pops up is that false accusations are a huge problem that threaten the average man. They’re not and it doesn’t. Even when the topic is about legitimate harassment, it always drifts to false accusations within the first couple pages. I think all this study shows is that many men don’t really understand what the Me Too movement is about and they're incredibly insecure about the fact that women are actually standing up for themselves in a culture that’s more socially progressive. At least once a month someone will post a tweet or something about some feminist saying she felt threatened by a dude who looked at her on the bus and people will dismiss that and make fun of it as hysterical nonsense, but flip the situation on its head and imply women are secretly out to get you and suddenly it becomes a reasonable, credible position.

And how does that relate to your earlier point about being disappointed that people aren't talking about the reality of sexual harassment in a thread that's unrelated to that issue? It just sounds to me like you're trying to shift the subject away from victims of false accusations to victims of sexual harassment when the latter are irrelevant to the current topic. Just because something happens rarely doesn't mean you can't be concerned about it. Innocents being sentenced to death doesn't happen every Sunday nor is the average person likely to end up in such a situation, that doesn't take away from the gravity of it, nor does it mean that people who are concerned that could happen to them are knee-deep into conspiracy theories. Being falsely accused can ruin lives, and when you're aware of the possibility of such a negative event, it's perfectly normal to avoid situations that could lead to it.

No it’s not normal. If you go out of your way to avoid interaction with your female coworkers because you fear at any random moment they might doxx you and accuse you of sexual harassment on twitter then you’re an incredibly paranoid and pathetic loser with an extremely warped view of women that proves how badly this movement was needed in the first place.

Women have in the past been warned than any man might try to sexually assault them, leading to anxiety and fear of being around men.

Being afraid of mentoring =/= avoiding any and all interactions. Easy on the hyperboles. I also don't see how people having fears of being falsely accused, however irrational they may be, is why this movement was needed in the first place. I thought it was about denouncing, you know, sexual harassers, not people who just wish to go about their day and don't want to have their lives ruined. This whole derailing the thread act of yours just sounds like an excuse to go and insult those who are concerned by this. Friendly reminder that, in this very thread, you have real victims of what you're calling people "paranoid and pathetic losers" for fearing. Not sure they appreciate the sentiment. You might want to try displaying the slightest modicum of tact.

Wow, really helping your argument there.

who shit in your breakfast

Thats a lot of weaseling around the stats like usual. The stats they use for these studies are always the lower bound. Because they gather the number of cases considered proven false. As I mentioned in the last thread it's disingenuous, incorrect, and torpedoes your own argument argument that real claims are more common than false ones. To claim that 2-10% of claims are proven false as the true number of false reports and thus is rare is to claim that since 3%(Your reddit post would claim even lower at .6%) are proven true, rape is less common than false accusations. It's a very bad argument. 2-10% could be the actual number as a lower bound is still in the range of possibility, but is highly unlikely. We don't know because the grey area between proven true and proven false could be nearly anything. And surveying people with a vested interest in lying is very difficult to do. The accused aren't going to say they actually did it, and any false accusers in that group are unlikely to admit it. Furthermore, we have no studies detailing the amount of false accusations that do not go to police. So comparisons of false reports to police with the estimated unreported rapes stat is once again disingenuous. And again they bring up the "Few are named to the police, and fewer go to jail" therefore the consequences aren't really bad. Just earlier this week a false accusation got someone killed. They completely ignore the public sphere of things. Jail is not the only possible negative result of a false accusation. They can damage relationships, cause mental health issues, and destroy professional reputation. Whoever made that post is trying to fit incomplete stats to a narrative. I doubt we'll ever know the true numbers as getting the missing stats here is a nightmare of survey planning. Creating the survey questions themselves is going to be difficult without unintentionally biasing the responses, and I can't think of a good way to get an accurate sampling without directly going to the victims or accused which is going to result in an unreliable sample due to the incentives to lie. Even worse, having that stat doesn't necessarily correlate to the total number of false accusations, only those that go to police, since there can be other factors that result in an accusation more likely going to police. I think a general pop false accusation survey may be possible, if you disguise it through asking if they've ever lied and told someone that another person wronged you in some way and then had a list of various things like "stole something from me", "hit me", etc. with a good random sample size. But to my knowledge, studies that look at this have not been performed.

Did you not read the fucking first post in the thread? What I said is literally what the thread is about. Why are you strawmanning so hard?

This entire shitstorm is due to the incredibly broken and imbalanced approach to relationships we have today; men are held to a standard from the 1950s to 70s as surveyed by women but at the same time that standard is incredibly problematic.There's not a lot of wiggle room for men because men and women hold men to this impossible standard that's only gotten worse over time. And yes its both genders; that crock of shit about 'its only men doing it' is about as convincing as saying 'only white people are racist'; on its face its false but it brings in a facet of truth.

It's not the norm, but how many people are afraid of planes crashing or sharks eating them? Rarely happens but humans don't focus on base stats, we remember the negatives. Hence, why less men want to do things like this. Women have almost all the power socially and could easily ruin a guy's life socially and most probably further by just being in the same room as him with nobody around. Definitely makes me think twice about helping somebody I don't know fully, because I'd rather just not have that risk.

I think you might be ignoring how much perception plays a role here. The perception of an airplane crash changes based on how often they happen, but the general baseline statistic is understood by most people to be that "airlines are the safest way to travel" because statistically, they are. The perception the media has given of this trend is that it's going to be a "court of public perception" issue in it's entirety anyways, and if we're not going to trial outside of the public and media, then we have an issue. That issue ends up with people believing falsely that they're likely to be falsely accused of something, and they will only be tried by public shaming, not by a court. In the situations where that happens, there's no "coming back" from that. So people practice aversion. Maybe I'm a giant sexist bigot and I don't know it, but I don't see your initial post in this thread as being particularly helpful in encouraging discussion. There are more forms of consequence than just legal, which your first reply ignored, and which your large info dump didn't touch. I agree, you're not likely to actually be falsely accused of these things, but I disagree with aspects of your argument that limit this to just the courts. It is an issue that exists beyond that, no?

Not really? I mean, mentoring generally means a lot of one on one time where what happens is basically your word against your accuser's because there are no witnesses to corroborate your side of the story. It also puts you in a position of power of sorts, which actual harassers are infamous for making use of as leverage/blackmail to intimidate their victim into complacency/silence. All of this contributes to making a potential false accusation much more credible and it's not hard to understand why even men who have no problem interacting with their female colleagues in a regular setting may be more hesitant to mentor them. That's not really a fair comparison, though, because while we have a fairly precise idea of what your likelihood of dying in a plane crash is, we have little to no hard figures regarding how many false accusations are being made. As cliff pointed out, the only data we have is on the amount of claims that have been proven to be false, meaning that the amount of false accusations could potentially be much higher, and that's only among accusations that have been made to the police, so public accusations where no police report has been made are not taken into account. Given the fact that a remotely smart false accuser would probably abstain from reporting to the authorities in case it gets proven wrong and they would have to face legal consequences, this adds even more uncertainty into the mix. It's much harder to rationalize away your anxieties with no hard data to latch onto. In the absence of information, people tend to take wide security margins for lack of more objective solutions. And even if some people's fear of flying is irrational or contradicts the facts, I'm still not going to call them "paranoid and pathetic losers" because I'm capable of empathising with people, sometimes even when they have a reasoning I may consider flawed.

Dude c'mon there are a billion better ways to phrase this Also you're just flat out wrong. The reason that one is more represented is that Facepunch is like 90% male.

Maybe this is an appropriate place to give this anecdote: I was very sexually pushy to a girl when I was extremely drunk and I apologized profusely the day after because I was so disgusted with myself. It was a girl I'd been with before (sexually) so by no means was she a random person. But, I couldn't understand any signalling and I felt like a fucking chimp. I felt like a predator, and quite honestly, that instance could've defined me as one. I couldn't reconcile the person that I was on the night with the person I am when I'm sober. Because regardless of me being drunk, it was still me. It ruined my reputation with all my friends and everyone at my school. I don't know the story they'd be told or that the girl and I spoke about it in person a day later. How do I forgive myself for doing something like that? Am I bound to live in my conscience as an awful person? I really don't know.

There were and always are people in these threads that accept how bad it can be. But the majority of members of FP are men, and probably not rapists, so it makes sense that they'd be concerned with issues that they perceive as more directly affect them, as unlikely as they might be to actually happen.

One twitter shitpost ruins your entire career. Are you willing to take the risk? I'm not. I have no trouble keeping it in my pants, but at the same time, when all it takes to completely ruin a career is one line on twitter it's just not worth it. Doesn't even need to be a non-sexual slight on my part, the other person could simply 'not like me' and use that as justification. It doesn't matter if you're innocent or not in the court of public opinion.