FBI 'warned MI5 in January that Salman Abedi was planning terror attack in UK' - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;52287685]I feel like the very instance that somebody is verified to be part of a terrorist cell they should IMMEDIATELY be arrested and jailed. There should be no fucking quarter for this type of behavior, no wonder there's people blowing shit up all over the place. Policy everywhere is literally standing there, watching, letting it happen.[/QUOTE] The issue here being that they never actually managed to verify that he was intending to commit any act of terror.

If it was warned that he was 'planning an attack', would that allegation be made without some measure of proof? So there was proof enough to know that an attack was coming but not enough proof to prevent it? This proves that there needs to be a systematic overhaul to deal with shit like this.

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;52287714]If it was warned that he was 'planning an attack', would that allegation be made without some measure of proof? So there was proof enough to know that an attack was coming but not enough proof to prevent it? This proves that there needs to be a systematic overhaul to deal with shit like this.[/QUOTE] There was no evidence that he was planning an attack. They warned that he might be planning an attack. MI5 then launched an investigation into him, at the time believing he might be trying to assassinate a public figure. They found no evidence during this investigation, and over the months he fell in their list of priorities since there's a ton of terror allegations they have to investigate all the time. Like the article said, they're juggling hundreds of terror investigations involving thousands of suspects at any one time. The vast majority of these end up going nowhere. That's why they don't arrest you for simply being suspected of planning an attack.

[QUOTE=elowin;52287678]Because the thing that breeds terrorists isn't Islamophobia directly, but Islamophobia helps feed the actual cause. Which is that many people in the Middle East feel like they, their country and/or their very culture is under attack by western society. A feeling that is probably not improved by bombing their cities in the Middle East or by many people in the West being openly hateful towards Islam and/or Muslims. Actually a pretty remarkable similarity between this outlook and the outlook of people who want to deport Muslims because they feel like their country and culture is under attack by immigration, now that I think about it.[/quote] well it's easy enough to stop sending drones to bomb weddings and children, but i don't see why we can't also just stop them from entering the country in the first place and stop adding to the problem. additionally, people blame islamophobia, but they can't seem to explain why the genuinely very islamophobic countries in Europe don't have terrorist attacks [QUOTE=joost1120;52287701]But how do you actually verify whether someone's a terrorist? Even if they decided to search everyone on the watchlist's house, 3 per day, it would still take 3 years to search them all. And that's just for the ones currently on the watchlist, not counting future ones.[/QUOTE] first sensible thing to do is to blacklist people if they have been deported in the past for terrorist related activities

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52287787]well it's easy enough to stop sending drones to bomb weddings and children, but i don't see why we can't also just stop them from entering the country in the first place and stop adding to the problem. additionally, people blame islamophobia, but they can't seem to explain why the genuinely very islamophobic countries in Europe don't have terrorist attacks first sensible thing to do is to blacklist people if they have been deported in the past for terrorist related activities[/QUOTE] Right, but that's clearly not working if they're just getting back into the country.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52287787]well it's easy enough to stop sending drones to bomb weddings and children, but i don't see why we can't also just stop them from entering the country in the first place and stop adding to the problem. additionally, people blame islamophobia, but they can't seem to explain why the genuinely very islamophobic countries in Europe don't have terrorist attacks first sensible thing to do is to blacklist people if they have been deported in the past for terrorist related activities[/QUOTE] Because the terrorists don't care about those countries. Likely they just don't consider it part of "the west", they're not "the enemy" to them. Also, we don't stop Muslims from immigrating for the same reason we don't stop any other wide religious, ethnic or racial group from immigrating. That's some tyrannical russian type-style bullshit, and we're better than judging an entire group of people like that. Or at least we should be. Of course a person is going to be imprisoned or deported if they're proven to be planning or, god forbid, have already commited an act of terror or other crime. But we have this saying here that we call "Innocent until proven guilty"

Sure you can just rate me dumb instead, but I imagine they already check whether people have been deported at customs. Just saying "oh well then just don't let them back in duh" isn't going to work. [editline]29th May 2017[/editline] Fuck, my merge. Still, my point stands. I assume these deported terrorists are getting back in via fake ID's or other shady shit.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52287659]we're an island. we have this fancy electronic passport thing. surely you can blacklist people who have been deported for terrorism? it's not as hard as you're making it out to be deport the dickheads with obvious ISIS sympathies, stop bringing in populations that are prone to terrorism (for instance Libya, which is in the midst of a civil war)[/QUOTE] The vast majority of successful islamic terror attacks in the UK are caused by British born muslims, where do you plan on deporting them to?

[QUOTE=Quark:;52286787]I [I]hate[/I] the idea that a police officer could have a valid reason to arrest a terrorist before they hurt anyone, but they don't because "not all Muslims are terrorists you Islamaphobic bigot!!!!" like really lol[/QUOTE] Do we know that this is what happened though?

[QUOTE=squids_eye;52287815]The vast majority of successful islamic terror attacks in the UK are caused by British born muslims, where do you plan on deporting them to?[/QUOTE] The desert where those fucking extremist cunts belong.

[QUOTE=orcywoo6;52287872]The desert where those fucking extremist cunts belong.[/QUOTE] Goddamn you Poe's law, I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not.

[QUOTE=squids_eye;52287815]The vast majority of successful islamic terror attacks in the UK are caused by British born muslims, where do you plan on deporting them to?[/QUOTE] virtually all of the terror attacks have been done by people who went overseas (Salman Abedi returned from Libya shortly before his attack) rather than letting them back in, you might want to consider why somebody with ISIS sympathies went to a country with an active terrorist movement

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52287918]virtually all of the terror attacks have been done by people who went overseas (Salman Abedi returned from Libya shortly before his attack) rather than letting them back in, you might want to consider why somebody with ISIS sympathies went to a country with an active terrorist movement[/QUOTE] To visit their family, perhaps?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52287918]virtually all of the terror attacks have been done by people who went overseas (Salman Abedi returned from Libya shortly before his attack) rather than letting them back in, you might want to consider why somebody with ISIS sympathies went to a country with an active terrorist movement[/QUOTE] If they didn't have enough evidence to arrest Abedi before his attack, why would they consider whatever they did have to be enough to justify exile?

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52288102]Why are people rating this dumb? His family is in Libya. Unless his family is literally ISIS, you cant just claim he was seeing turrrusts just because he went to Libya. You need to have something solid backing that claim up.[/QUOTE] People rate it dumb because they are filled with emotion and everyone from the middle east could be a terrorist. Or at least that's the impression they give me. [editline]29th May 2017[/editline] No evidence? No problem, they could be a terrorist so deport them to a country they aren't from, who cares. As long as they're not here.

you also gotta note we hear about the times where they were reported, not arrested, and then carried out an attack. the times where agencies manage to prevent attacks aren't reported and i'm willing to bet a lot of the time the ones that get brought in were never going to go through with their plans in the first place.

[QUOTE=pentium;52286616]To protect the people form suspicious activity and potential terrorism. Of course that assumes the people in charge aren't so stupid they can't see a problem even if they are told about it on the other side of the planet.[/QUOTE] They probably could but didn't have the funding to investigate fully. Apparently this guy was known to our secruity services, my guess is they know about lots of them but don't have the resources or power to do what needs to be done. If a guy doesn't have the means and hasn't got a plan then what can you use against him to say "hes a crook". Odds are if you take him to court it wouldn't stand up, he'd leave as a free man and could be fairly immune to any further investigation. Mass surveillance is shitty. They need more focused and comprehensive surveillance on this type of guy. I don't think going on terror websites is evidence they can use against you, it'll probably just get you flagged for further investigation.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52288106]People rate it dumb because they are filled with emotion and everyone from the middle east could be a terrorist. Or at least that's the impression they give me. [editline]29th May 2017[/editline] No evidence? No problem, they could be a terrorist so deport them to a country they aren't from, who cares. As long as they're not here.[/QUOTE] yeah, everyone else is getting emotional but you caring about dumb ratings is the epitome of stoicism. No-one here implied everyone from the middle east could be a terrorist, if anything you implied that with your 'alienation of muslims turns them into terrorists' comments, the likes of which I'd expect to read on /pol/. I don't think anyone here needs half-assed lessons on national security from someone with an anime avatar

[QUOTE=Cabbage;52290847]yeah, everyone else is getting emotional but you caring about dumb ratings is the epitome of stoicism. No-one here implied everyone from the middle east could be a terrorist, if anything you implied that with your 'alienation of muslims turns them into terrorists' comments, the likes of which I'd expect to read on /pol/. I don't think anyone here needs half-assed lessons on national security from someone with an anime avatar[/QUOTE] Apparently they do tho.

[QUOTE=Cabbage;52290847]yeah, everyone else is getting emotional but you caring about dumb ratings is the epitome of stoicism. No-one here implied everyone from the middle east could be a terrorist, if anything you implied that with your 'alienation of muslims turns them into terrorists' comments, the likes of which I'd expect to read on /pol/. I don't think anyone here needs half-assed lessons on national security from someone with an anime avatar[/QUOTE] Well apparently you do because somehow you don't understand that the majority of western terrorists are Muslims that don't feel like society accepts Muslims. And " I don't think anyone here needs half-assed lessons on national security from someone with an anime avatar " ??? Not only does that not have anything to do with all of this, but it's a personal attack too. Keep that shit to yourself. Also if you'd actually read the thread, you would realize that my post was a reply to someone else talking about dumb rating. I myself don't really care about them, otherwise I wouldn't have made my first few posts in this thread. [editline]30th May 2017[/editline] Talking shit is great, but do it offline. Think for yourself for once and don't just jump on a hatetrain

Yeah let's do nothing and treat the yihadist nice, that will sure stop them bomb killing people! They are just misunderstood angels and we are just racists

[QUOTE=Endzeit7;52290866]Yeah let's do nothing and treat the yihadist nice, that will sure stop them bomb killing people! They are just misunderstood angels and we are just racists[/QUOTE] Good job, you just made fun of nobody.

[QUOTE=Endzeit7;52290866]Yeah let's do nothing and treat the yihadist nice, that will sure stop them bomb killing people! They are just misunderstood angels and we are just racists[/QUOTE] Yeah lets do nothing and treat the nazi's (ALL WHITE PEOPLE) nice, that will stop them from gassing people. If someone's a confirmed jihadist, they are getting arrested. If it's just someone they think might be one, he's going on the watchlist. Until they find definitive proof, they can't just arrest random muslims.