Universtity of Ontario IT Posts Privilege Awareness Checklist Around Campus - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Lambeth;53184849]Also: does the government literally have it out for you[/QUOTE] I actually have no idea what you're even referring to.

[QUOTE=sgman91;53184859]I actually have no idea what you're even referring to.[/QUOTE] Residential schools, which I guess it's fair you would have no idea, you're not Canadian.

[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;53184763]See i know a lot about this. That's mostly to do with the corruption of the local leaders who're in charge of the money the goverment sends. If we're thinking of the same event, there's been more than a few times where some remote tribe will make a request for funds to build infastructure (running water, sewage, power etc), and the board will send them the money. But whoever's in charge of the money locally, usually the chief, will simply embezzle some or all of the money. And if the job gets started at all, it'll either be done poorly by cheap outside contractors or not at all, so the people still don't have that infrastructure. They'll then complain to the board that money didn't come, or more often, that it wasn't enough, and so the board will send more money, and that money disappears and on it goes. We dump so much money into that system it's absurd. For example, until her recent retirement, my aunt was the accountant for one of the local reservations in the interior, and she has all sorts of stories and numbers about this sort of thing. The reservation system is so cushy it gets to the point where rather than go to the store a few kilometers down the road, or go out with a chainsaw and an axe to make firewood, they'll strip the siding off their goverment funded housing, and burn it in the fireplace, knowing that after they make a call, a man will be sent around within the month to replace the siding. We're so generous, that we have a situation where some individuals (and not particularly uncommonly) would rather burn parts of their own house and let the goverment pay for the people, labor and materials to come and repair their housing, than simply go outside with a chainsaw and make firewood. And yet somehow the same government that would do that, is also simultaneously attempting a soft genocide, or "attempted cultural annihilation"? Why would we assume willful oppression of these people by the goverment when it's much more satisfactory explained by local corruption? The residential schools were a crime, make no mistake. But in contemporary times, we as a country have nothing to be collectively guilty for. And certainly nothing on the scale of an attempted slow genocide, or "smoothering out" of these people.[/QUOTE] A lot of issues with water systems in native communities is actually the fact that water and the related infrastructure laws fall under the Federal government, and few laws exist governing their water supply system. Furthermore, since the government builds water systems at a deficit, there's little chance of them getting upkeep due to lack of funds after or training done. This also means that there's little room for customising systems, which means they can easily be poorly suited for the location [URL]https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/06/07/canada-water-crisis-puts-first-nations-families-risk[/URL] Perhaps there's some tainting from corruption, as there likely is with anywhere responsibility or money is concerned, but trying to lay the blame entirely on it is laughable. Most of the studies and interviews I've seen has put the blame mostly on government trying to use band-aid solutions on a highly complex issue that only gets harder the more half-assed they try to deal with it.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;53184863]Residential schools, which I guess it's fair you would have no idea, you're not Canadian.[/QUOTE] There really is no defense of why it lasted up to '96. But since then, things have changed and been worked upon. They were being worked upon in the 80's as the schools rapidly started closing but it wasn't, and isn't an easy process to fix the cultural divide that exists here and it is one of the few and only instances of genuine racism you'd find in Canada. It is also, something that the vast majority of Canadians don't deal with on a daily basis or aren't reminded of constantly. That is by no means an excuse though. The managing of the tribes currently is 100% up to the local residents of the reservations, IIRC. And issues are still happening there, drug use is rampant and so are other issues, and we're entirely unable to go in and help. So when it comes to issues with the natives I'm really at a loss for words because yeah, it is unacceptable, but it's complicated and only made worse by non-interaction.

[QUOTE=chocolatedrop;53184646]How are any of those things a privilege? Most of them are just normal things depending on who your parents are and where you're born. They're a privilege to what? [I]Shit hole[/I] countries that can't get their shit together?[/QUOTE] congrats on proving the point lol

Wouldn't everyone attending the college be privileged technically since they have access to education?

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;53184491]i've got male, white, access to education, native english speaker, and able-bodied checked off but i am having trouble on some of the others. anyone got an FAQ for this quest? i can probably cheese heterosexual and cisgender but how do i get christian? i haven't even started on that guild questline and i think it is kind of bullshit they make it a requirement for this one, and don't even get me started on canadian citizenship, absolute shite they have requirements tied to what server region you're on[/QUOTE] Remember how you can do quests for the Railroad and then run quests for their enemies, the Institute, in Fallout 4? Well, its the exact same thing.

[QUOTE=jimbobjoe1234;53185151]Wouldn't everyone attending the college be privileged technically since they have access to education?[/QUOTE] Privilege doesn't mean project always end up in better positions, it just means it's easier

I understand I have privileges. At the same time, there is no person without privilege, in some form. I personally don't see "checking privilege" as anything other than a "count your blessings"-esque mantra. To form an argument based entirely off of/against someone's privileges is ridiculous, as no one can realistically sit down and list off every privilege they benefit from, let alone weigh them against someone else's privilege

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53184894]There really is no defense of why it lasted up to '96. But since then, things have changed and been worked upon. They were being worked upon in the 80's as the schools rapidly started closing but it wasn't, and isn't an easy process to fix the cultural divide that exists here and it is one of the few and only instances of genuine racism you'd find in Canada. It is also, something that the vast majority of Canadians don't deal with on a daily basis or aren't reminded of constantly. That is by no means an excuse though. The managing of the tribes currently is 100% up to the local residents of the reservations, IIRC. And issues are still happening there, drug use is rampant and so are other issues, and we're entirely unable to go in and help. So when it comes to issues with the natives I'm really at a loss for words because yeah, it is unacceptable, but it's complicated and only made worse by non-interaction.[/QUOTE] VICE did a documentary a little while ago about the problems that first nations communities face that's [url=https://video.vice.com/en_ca/video/cut-off/573e2384e9b4e338637c3678]worth a watch[/url]. there's even a [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHMcP_YNh4o]VR[/url] version [editline]7th March 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=jimbobjoe1234;53185151]Wouldn't everyone attending the college be privileged technically since they have access to education?[/QUOTE] I guess everyone in america is privileged because it's the richest country in the world.

I feel like socio-economic status, neighborhood, and parents are a bigger determining factor than anything in those categories. Disability is another one, I admit, and access to education arguably falls under the first three I mentioned. Everything else seems inconsequential, at least in the western world. I mean, we can have a conversation about gender roles and income, but those in principle only reflect average choices rather than any inherent problem, I think. Differences in temperament also may have an impact on things such as pay negotiation, but those blur the line between responsibility and fatalism.

Canadian citizen at birth is not a privilege...

[QUOTE=Anteep;53186632]Canadian citizen at birth is not a privilege...[/QUOTE] Why not?

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53186685]Why not?[/QUOTE] It's not based on your skin colour or anything else it's where you were born You aren't "less" canadian by being an asian born canadian So in and of itself, I don't really see how that is a privledge. I've never met a business that doesn't hire immigrants, as anywhere you go in the lower mainland you'll be greeted by people who are immigrants from around the world.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53186696]It's not based on your skin colour or anything else it's where you were born You aren't "less" canadian by being an asian born canadian So in and of itself, I don't really see how that is a privledge. I've never met a business that doesn't hire immigrants, as anywhere you go in the lower mainland you'll be greeted by people who are immigrants from around the world.[/QUOTE] Generally speaking though, you need to get citizenship, and most likely learn a new language. Also there is discrimination against immigrants, so yes, people born here have an advantage here

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53186705]Generally speaking though, you need to get citizenship, and most likely learn a new language. Also there is discrimination against immigrants, so yes, people born here have an advantage here[/QUOTE] So people in Japan have privledge there. I'm not sure your point. Where your born confers with it certain elements as they relate to your life under a government. I suppose there is "Privileged" there, but it's not how privilege is readily defined in these conversations. A black person, a white person, and an asian person all born in Canada have the same "privilege" under the assumption that being born in a country is a "privilege". I really don't think you're about to go and apply this to China, and say white people don't have privilege there. If you are, then okay, I guess as long as you're being consistent about it.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53186705]Generally speaking though, you need to get citizenship, and most likely learn a new language. Also there is discrimination against immigrants, so yes, people born here have an advantage here[/QUOTE] Name a single nation where you are not disadvantaged by emigrating there. Having to go through legal channels and assimilate to the culture and language is inherent to the process. The inverse argument can just as easily be made, if someone moved from Canada to China, are they now not at a disadvantage by not being fluent in Mandarin? Of course they are. In all cases immigration is a cost/benefit analysis, the costs of course being both the financial (travel, citizenship etc.) and cultural (ie. Language)

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53186720][B]So people in Japan have privledge there.[/B] I'm not sure your point. Where your born confers with it certain elements as they relate to your life under a government. I suppose there is "Privileged" there, but it's not how privilege is readily defined in these conversations. A black person, a white person, and an asian person all born in Canada have the same "privilege" under the assumption that being born in a country is a "privilege". I really don't think you're about to go and apply this to China, and say white people don't have privilege there. If you are, then okay, I guess as long as you're being consistent about it.[/QUOTE] Yes. also yes black people born in Canada have the privilege of being born here, and also, I really don't know if being white in china helps you in any way, if it does, then that's a privilege as well. This isn't this complicated dude [editline]8th March 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=FeartheMango;53186723]Name a single nation where you are not disadvantaged by emigrating there. Having to go through legal channels and assimilate to the culture and language is inherent to the process. The inverse argument can just as easily be made, if someone moved from Canada to China, are they now not at a disadvantage by not being fluent in Mandarin? Of course they are. In all cases immigration is a cost/benefit analysis, the costs of course being both the financial (travel, citizenship etc.) and cultural (ie. Language)[/QUOTE] Yes, exactly, but this is university of [B]Ontario[/B], where it IS a privilege to be Canadian at birth, not in China

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53186726]Yes. also yes black people born in Canada have the privilege of being born here, and also, I really don't know if being white in china helps you in any way, if it does, then that's a privilege as well. This isn't this complicated dude [editline]8th March 2018[/editline] Yes, exactly, but this is university of [B]Ontario[/B], where it IS a privilege to be Canadian at birth, not in China[/QUOTE] Realistically, only the western white world is freaking out about the concept of "privilege". I want everyone to have the same starting foot I had in life, and I don't have a problem recognizing elements of my life have been easier, but I also don't have a problem recognizing times where living in a place where I am not the majority also isn't a "privilege". [editline]8th March 2018[/editline] To me, the whole concept of this is to divide people, to split them up, not to make a more unified society or group. This is just "us vs them" type crap that people fall into because it's kosher with our modern politics to play this game of "punching up" and "punching down" where ever it's convenient.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53186749]Realistically, only the western white world is freaking out about the concept of "privilege". I want everyone to have the same starting foot I had in life, and I don't have a problem recognizing elements of my life have been easier, but I also don't have a problem recognizing times where living in a place where I am not the majority also isn't a "privilege". [editline]8th March 2018[/editline] To me, the whole concept of this is to divide people, to split them up, not to make a more unified society or group. This is just "us vs them" type crap that people fall into because it's kosher with our modern politics to play this game of "punching up" and "punching down" where ever it's convenient.[/QUOTE] It's a way of understanding other peoples' situations, instead of the old "I accomplished _____, why couldn't you? everyone for themselves" bullshit

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53186726] Yes, exactly, but this is university of [B]Ontario[/B], where it IS a privilege to be Canadian at birth, not in China[/QUOTE] No shit sherlock. And its a privilege to be Chinese in a Chinese University. And a Rwandan in a Rwandan University. And a Brazilian in a Brazilian university. Every born citizen in every nation is given the privilege of citizenship there. That's the way it works What I'm saying is that, if you have the ability to attend a school in your home country, and you decide to emigrate to attend a foreign university, you have determined that the [b]cost[/b] of being at an inherent disadvantage to a domestic student as a result of language/cultural barriers is worth the [b] reward[/b] of attending that foreign university. You forfeit your privilege of attending your own domestic university by choosing to attend a foreign one. And if your family emigrated, [b]they[/b] made that choice for you. And ridiculing the people in their own domestic university because they didn't forfeit that privilege is just ridiculous to me. And that's not even accounting for domestic students moving from another province in the country, which puts them at much the same disadvantages as being a foreign student.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53186762]It's a way of understanding other peoples' situations, instead of the old "I accomplished _____, why couldn't you? everyone for themselves" bullshit[/QUOTE] Is it? It seems like it's a way of disregarding a whole set of experiences, and relegating them to "privilege". How about we talk about experiences and situations without disregarding one group, or the other? You act like I got my job because of "privilege". Not because I'm good at what I do, I have a passion for it, and work hard at it, no, it's because of my skin colour and a variety of "privileges". But someone who worked to get their job without privilege "earned" their job. When the language you're using can so easily be made to disregard a group you're talking with, I don't see why it's surprising people aren't falling over themselves to line up for the ideology.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53186762]It's a way of understanding other peoples' situations, instead of the old "I accomplished _____, why couldn't you? everyone for themselves" bullshit[/QUOTE] It does that only in the most vague and meaningless way, though. There's no real way to quantify those individual privileges, and most don't even attempt to do so. So making any sort of argument about privileges causing an outcome end up being nothing more than hand waving. I'm certain some thing helps tremendously (like having a stable family, and the data shows that pretty conclusively), but when we're talking about something like being a native speaker, how can you possibly separate that out from all the other variables that go along with it?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53186775]Is it? It seems like it's a way of disregarding a whole set of experiences, and relegating them to "privilege". How about we talk about experiences and situations without disregarding one group, or the other? You act like I got my job because of "privilege". Not because I'm good at what I do, I have a passion for it, and work hard at it, no, it's because of my skin colour and a variety of "privileges". But someone who worked to get their job without privilege "earned" their job. When the language you're using can so easily be made to disregard a group you're talking with, I don't see why it's surprising people aren't falling over themselves to line up for the ideology.[/QUOTE] no, they just had a part to play in it

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53186821]no, they just had a part to play in it[/QUOTE] I'm not denying that, but that isn't what the "privilege" argument sounds like. I don't "check my privilege" but I do recognize that coming from a good home and such had it's advantages. My hard work isn't something to discuss, no, it's the "privilege" I was born into that's worth discussing. Why? I think Canada probably does it as well as any country possibly can for how much "privilege" there is to just being canadian. It just sounds, and actively looks like, a way of dividing people up. Do we want a divided society, or a unified one? Does stratifying us into different layers, and levels of privilege actually help anyone?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53186840]My hard work isn't something to discuss, no, it's the "privilege" I was born into that's worth discussing. Why?[/QUOTE] Because people have an incredibly common tendency to extend their experiences to others and assume that anyone else could achieve what they did with the same level of hard work, and that's something worth analyzing. I'm genuinely confused as to why this always seems to be such a contentious topic. When a trust fund baby says that people just need to work hard like they did to become a multimillionaire, everyone calls them out because it's obvious that they had a leg up due to circumstances beyond their control. It's not about whether they worked hard or not, it's about what factors [I]besides[/I] working hard contributed to their success, because not everybody enjoys those factors. If the concept of privilege is intuitive in an economic context, why is it that when you apply it to a social/racial/ethnic/etc context that people question its legitimacy?

Privilege is an important concept on a scale of entire societies. You can't apply it to inviduals as gospel because individual variance overshadows demographical variance.

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[QUOTE=Anteep;53186632]Canadian citizen at birth is not a privilege...[/QUOTE] because you are automatically disadvantaged

[QUOTE=catbarf;53186852]Because people have an incredibly common tendency to extend their experiences to others and assume that anyone else could achieve what they did with the same level of hard work, and that's something worth analyzing. I'm genuinely confused as to why this always seems to be such a contentious topic. When a trust fund baby says that people just need to work hard like they did to become a multimillionaire, everyone calls them out because it's obvious that they had a leg up due to circumstances beyond their control. It's not about whether they worked hard or not, it's about what factors [I]besides[/I] working hard contributed to their success, because not everybody enjoys those factors. If the concept of privilege is intuitive in an economic context, why is it that when you apply it to a social/racial/ethnic/etc context that people question its legitimacy?[/QUOTE] I agree it's worth analyzing. I don't think just saying "privilege" is analyzing it though. People probably don't like it because it makes whatever they went through seem trivialized. I broke my back(almost literally, slipped a few discs) working my previous job as a lighting technician in the film industry. Did privilege get me that job? Did privilege help me while I was being treated like I was a waste of air for being new to the profession? Did "privilege" give me a buffer so that I didn't feel like I had to work myself to death to be of value? Analyze it, yes, please. But saying "privilege" as a blanket statement is disregarding of every individual experience a person goes through.